We can contain the PS' populist threat to Finland

by , under All categories, Enrique

By Enrique Tessieri

The more I read about Timo Soini the more I am convinced that the Perussuomalaiset (PS) party is a threat to this country, especially to those who do not fit the PS’ narrow view of the world. I am not contesting the election result, which I respect, but what the  cat has brought in from the back door.

Marianne Lydén will publish in a few weeks a book, Jag är inte rasist. Jag vill bara ha främlingsfientliga röster [I’m not a racist. I am just out to get the votes of those who hate immigrants]that highlights the role of the media and political parties in fueling the rise of the PS,  according to HBL.

Fear = Hate forums in Finland (Hommaforum, Scripta and others), Ignorance = bloggers who visit these sites, and hate = hostility towards immigrants and visible minorities. Thank you Hannele Kosonen for sharing this very revealing cartoon with us.

While we at Migrant Tales have repeatedly criticized the media’s lack of teeth and the complacency of the largest political parties to the xenophobia and racism of the PS,  Lydén raises the important question again in her book.

If anything, the media and politicians can learn from their past mistakes and now see what can happen when we are too complacent to parties that hold in contempt the rights of other groups in society.

“We journalists did Soini’s work by spreading his hatred of foreigners sometimes unknowingly,” the staff reporter at the Swedish-language daily HBL is quoted as saying, “but if we wouldn’t have written about him we wouldn’t have been doing our job.”

Lydén points the finger in her book at the following politicians for boosting the PS: Kokoomus MP Ben Zyskowicz, Jutta Urpilainen and Eero Heinäluoma of the SDP as well as Center Party veteran politician Paavo Väyrynen.

While you’ll find the same anti-immigration hardliners in all Finnish parties as in the PS, it explains why a politician like Urpilainen can flirt with Soini’s one-way integration model for immigrants and why Wille Rydnman has been christened by his party as Kokoomus’ Jussi Halla-aho.

The HBL reporter shows how an Islamophobist like Halla-aho and Soini complimented each other in the historic April election.  “Without Halla-aho Soini would have never got the anti-immigration vote. Without Soini Halla-aho would not be chairing the administration committee,” she said.

Another important observation that Lydén makes is that nothing happens immediately or by chance in Finland. Racism has been festering in the undercurrent for a long time in Finland.  “What is it and nothing of the sort happens [xenophobia] in Finland was the normal answer,” she said of the 1990s.

I have worked as a foreign correspondent and journalist in Finland for a long time and totally agree with Lydén about turning a blind eye to racism, bigotry and prejudice. If you didn’t you were blacklisted by the foreign ministry which did everything possible to smear your good name.

I am certain that Lasse Lehtinen, Rolf Friberg, Pekka Karhuvaara and Finnfacts can give us more details about how the foreign ministry “worked” with foreign journalists during the cold war and tried to convince us that Finlandization did not exist.

We are in big trouble if we deal with this threat of the PS in the same manner as we did before the election.

However, I believe that Finland is slowly but surely learning a stinging lesson from its pre-April 17 mistakes.

  1. Question

    As mentioned within other parties there are MPs which you could say are mirror images of MPs from PS.

    But do theses few have enough influence or power to have made changes to the immigration laws over the last few years.

    So is it more correct to focus criticism onto the parties instead of the individual PMs who without their votes theses laws would never have been passed.

    Or is it as a issue immigration is now seen by a majority instead of a minority of MPs from all parties as a issue that has to be debated.

    And by accident or design it removes the stigma that it is not socially acceptable to talk about Immigration in the negative.

    From which many if not most MPs would say there is no need to learn from mistakes because no mistakes have been made in talking about immigration

  2. Question

    As mentioned within other parties there are MPs which you could say are mirror images of MPs from PS.

    But do theses few have enough influence or power to have made changes to the immigration laws over the last few years.

    So is it more correct to focus criticism onto the parties instead of the individual PMs who without their votes theses laws would never have been passed.

    Or is it as a issue immigration is now seen by a majority instead of a minority of MPs from all parties as a issue that has to be debated.

    And by accident or design it removes the stigma that it is not socially acceptable to talk about Immigration in the negative.

    Should you now accept that finnish society is for the foreseeable future is going to keep questioning immigration and until that stops it will continue as a voter issue in elections

    From which many if not most MPs would say there is no need to learn from mistakes because no mistakes have been made in talking about immigration

  3. Question

    If you mean a racist supports a political party which has or expressed anti immigration views then you are spoilt for choice in Finland.

  4. Question

    When non PS MPs have said you can talk about immigration without resulting to racist comments is that the line now Finland has now drawn for itself.And the controversy comes from crossing that line.

    So the soon to be published book is flawed in its content as it fails to understand the line which the majority of Finnish society has now drawn for itself .

    Would for example a better title be “Those who have crossed the line” .

    • Enrique

      –When non PS MPs have said you can talk about immigration without resulting to racist comments is that the line now Finland has now drawn for itself.And the controversy comes from crossing that line.

      Could you tell us what clear lines must not be crossed when debating immigration issues?

  5. Klay_Immigrant

    This notion raised repeatedly by justicedemon that in his/her opinion a racist would automatically vote for the PS therefore making the PS a racist party is completely flawed and ludacris. The same incorrect logic can be used to state that a potential rapist or murderer would automatically vote for the Greens as their sentences and punishment wouldn’t be as tough or long therefore making the Green party a criminal friendly party.

    • Enrique

      Klay, the issue is that ALL parties have their bigots and racists. But none of them are so open about it like the PS. Already during April shortly after the election we learned of Teuvo Hakkarainen, the PS MP. We have a lot more never mind those that were caught seeking membership in the neo-Nazi SKV association.

      I have to agree with JusticeDemon: What we are seeing with the PS is fascism in a 2010s context. If I could pick out this fascist ideology from the PS I would point to: scientific racism and an eerie nostalgia for the past. But everyone except for many in the PS don’t know that the past won’t come back.

  6. justicedemon

    The crucial question is which party would not expel a member for making overtly racist remarks or propagating an overtly racist interpretation of events. We already saw this in the relationship between Sulo Aittoniemi and the Centre Party.

    Marianne Lydén’s analysis is appropriate. Soini tries to maintain a moral carapace while relying on, profiting from and declining to condemn or resist the immoral behaviour of others. This kind of gangsterism is typical of fascist political movements.

    It is quite clear that overtly racist conduct is tolerated longer and less severely punished in the PS than in any other Finnish parliamentary party.

  7. Allan

    I thought it was Keskustapuolue’s Matti vanhanen’s daddy who wrote these scientific racism books?

    RKP though is the only openly racist party. they deal out Freudenthal-medals. Freudenthal was one of those scientific racxists who classified Finns as subhumans.

  8. Klay_Immigrant

    Enrique just out of interest have you heard about the race row in Britain involving a black female MP who happens to be a shadow minister remarks on Twitter?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16423278

    You talk about the incorrectness of sterotyping races or religion so would you class ”White people love playing ‘divide & rule'” as an example of this? Or because it’s the white race being attacked and brought into a negative light that it cannot possibly be racism or wrong?

  9. justicedemon

    Klay

    Would you describe Dianne Abbott as a racist? Do you applaud what she said? If not, then why not? Is it because she is the wrong kind of racist for an Uncle Tom like yourself?

    How about in comparison with Gary Dobson and David Norris? Or in comparison with yourself and your wholesale characterisations of population groups made on this blog?

  10. Seppo

    Lol, are you serious? You think Soini is a racist? Where and when has he “spread hatred” against foreigners? Stop making false statements, then someone may even take you seriously.

    • Enrique

      Hi Seppo, and welcome to Migrant Tales. I am going to have to disagree with you on this one.

      When you look at a topic like racism, populism, the far right, and the PS you have to look behind the words. All governments and political parties hide what they really think and give funny explanations for their actions. A military dictatorship in Latin America in the 1970s can tell you with a poker face that they are for human rights and uphold Western values despite the mass amount of evidence of the contrary. George W. Bush can invade a country like Iraq and feed as a lot of baloney about weapons of mass destruction and how he wants to bring democracy to an Arab country when, in fact, it has been Washington that has supported such autocratic regimes to begin with.

      It’s the same story with Timo Soini and the PS. Soini says one thing but many in the PS move in another direction. He recently said (a good example of this colorful double talk) that there were only three cases of racism in the PS (sic!).

      How can you explain the supposed differences of opinion (Soini not racist and other MPs in his party maybe culturally challenged) conflict between Soini and those MPs? It is, in my opinion, a question of semantics. Soini actually believes the same things about Islam, diversity, homosexuality, gender inequality as his most crudest party members who lack his oratory skills. The difference is that he is a good speaker who hides what we really thinks but expresses them through others like Jussi Halla-aho.

      Therefore, the answer to your question, how Soini has spread hatred and reinforced suspicion of foreigners, minorities and Finns with international backgrounds, is right under our noses.

      His anti-immigration views on immigration dawned on me after reading his views on the topic.

  11. Question

    You talk about the financial and social costs of asylum and debate should the better idea would be to increase foreign aid in the hope to stabilize those countries .

    You consider that the crimes committed due to the ascension of Eastern Europe into the eu are on the increase and could increase over the next. So you debate as well as putting pressure onto those countries Finland also should consider returning to border checks as a way to protecting its citizens

    You consider that some people use marriage to a Finnish citizen is used as a way of entering into Finland for economical reasons and as theses are not genuine they can lead to abuse marriage so you debate should you make those laws tougher to weed out the fake from the real

    Theses are all immigration issues which are not positive for Finland and Finnish people as individuals as a whole and theses are sensible suggestions to those problems.

    As the title suggest the author is off the opinion that PS and people who voted for PS because they hate all immigrants when its been mentioned countless times that PS are not against immigration but are against a immigration policy which is not in Finland’s favor.

    Because when she attacks other political parties or the media for what she would consider supporting or giving time to the views of PS what in fact she is attacking is what is seen as sensible views of immigration. It appears she does not have the intelligence to tell the difference between sensible debate and those who have made statements which could be considered as being racist.

    Because of which she has now published a book where she still believes taking a negative line against immigration is still seen as racist unaware that Finland has rejected that idea
    And many people or organizations she seems to focus her hate on are now what the image of modern sensible immigration debate in Finland is

    Does she not feel embarrassed by publishing a book which is so incorrect

  12. justicedemon

    Question

    You do not advance your position by offering a Gish Gallop in third grade English. Each of your points can be specifically refuted one by one, and they have been refuted in other threads on this blog. Blurting them all out in a drunken rage does not make them any less invalid.

  13. justicedemon

    Seppo

    By your reasoning the Mafia Godfather is not violent, because he is merely presents the respectable front for a murderous organisation.

    Anyone of non-racist pedigree would resign from an organisation that has become such a nest of racial and cultural intolerance.

  14. Question

    Foreigners count for 10% of crimes in Finland most of theses crimes are committed by citizens of the new eu states. The police have said the removal of border checks is the key factor in this increase

    If you do not agree with this and you have another reason for this increase in crime I would like to hear it

  15. Question

    “How Soini has spread hatred and reinforced suspicion of foreigners, minorities and Finns with international backgrounds, is right under our noses”

    Why do you think many MPs some who don’t even agree with Soini views defend him from attacks from people like yourself? Maybe because they are getting fed that you keep resulting to the “R” word instead of getting involved in sensible debate.

    The book contains more of the same regarding the “R” word and also its focus is on many other MPs from other parties.

    Do you think that book is going to make MPs go against PS or will it have the reverse effect?

    • Enrique

      Question, I don’t understand your argument. You mean people are going to back Soini and the PS because somebody like me criticizes them? Society does not play by their rules nor that of any other parties. On Migrant Tales we take racism seriously and we hope that others do as well.

      Racism is a serious offense, full stop.

  16. justicedemon

    Question

    You write better English when you are sober, but that does not justify making up statistics. Please explain whether your percentage figure includes several million foreign tourists in both the numerator and the denominator.

  17. Laputis

    Finland must stop being Finnish, it must be multicultural according to Enrique. So it must become like America or Canada. So Finland should stop being country of native people, instead it should be immigrant country. Finland shouldn´t be unique country with own society and culture. Any step out of this is immediately labelled as “racist” or “nazi”.

    Enrique´s ideas are not very attractive, mildly saying.

  18. justicedemon

    Laputis

    Did you see this letter published in Helsingin Sanomat in December?

    Suomen menneisyys tallentui saamen kieleen

    Helsingin Sanomien mielipidesivulla on keskusteltu Suomi nimen alkuperästä (6.12. ja 10.12.).

    Nykyisen Suomen alueella, jota kutsuttiin aikoinaan Saamen maaksi, asui lähes yksinomaan saamelaisia noin 2 500 vuotta sitten. Niinpä Suomen kansallisen historian alkuvaiheet ovat tallentuneet saamen kieleen.

    Suomalaisten alkuperään viittaa se saamenkielinen sana, jolla saamelaiset kutsuivat Saamen maahan muuttaneita “suomalaisia”.

    Saamelaiset kutsuivat näitä nimellä “láddelaš”, joka tarkoittaa lättiläistä. Nykyisten suomalaisten esi isät ovat siis tulleet Saamen maahan Lätin maalta (Látte eana, Lettland) Baltiasta. Siitä ei ole epäilystäkään.

    Kun Saamen maahan saapuneet lättiläiset opettelivat paikallista kieltä, sen ääntäminen kuulosti paikallisten korvissa oudolta, ja siksi saamelaiset kutsuivat näitä uuden kielen puhujia nimellä “suomalaš” (murteellinen). Saamen kielen ja lätin kielen synteesin seurauksena syntyi uusi kieli, suomen kieli. Saamenkielinen sana “suomalaš” oli uuden kielen mukaisesti “suomalainen”, koska saamen kielen “laš” tarkoittaa samaa kuin suomen kielen “läinen”.

    Suomen kieli sai kielellisen valta aseman Saamen maassa siitä syystä, että saamen kielestä puuttuivat maatalouden harjoittamisessa tarvittavat käsitteet. Lättiläiset olivat harjoittaneet maanviljelyä jo tuhansien vuosien ajan ennen muuttoaan Saamen maalle.

    On perin outoa, että kielitieteilijät ovat pyrkineet selvittämään sitä, mistä kielestä mikäkin saamen kielen sana on lainattu. Loogisempaa olisi selvittää, mihin kieliin saamen kielestä on kulkeutunut sanoja. Saamelaisten alkuperäiskansan statuksen takia saamen kielellä täytyy olla alkuperäiskielen status.

    Arvi Hagelin
    Utsjoki

  19. justicedemon

    Allan

    Yes, Allan, and if you include them in the denominator, then what is the mathematical impact on the statistics?

    Let me give you a clue. Let’s say there are 100,000 immigrants living permanently in Thailand. Then Jouko Petri Jaatinen arrives as a tourist from Finland and rapes 500 children. Therefore those 100,000 permanent immigrants now commit 500 rapes, which is a far higher rate of criminality than the host population. Therefore we should kick all the immigrants out of Thailand, starting with the Finns, as they are obviously far more likely to rape children.

    Can you see anything wrong with that reasoning? How would you correct it?

  20. justicedemon

    JJ

    You still don’t get it, do you? Jouko Petri Jaatinen was a tourist in Thailand, not an immigrant.

    Are you suggesting that Finland should close down its domestic tourism industry? If you only want to exclude tourists who are going to commit a criminal offence in Finland, then how are you going to identify these tourists in advance? Do you have some special Minority Report PreCrime technology that you have not yet disclosed?

    Try again, and this time use both of those short planks.

  21. Eduardo

    It’s quite easy to exclude “tourists” who are likely to commit criminal offences, simply by noting the extremely strong correlation between ethnicity and criminality in all societies in the world and at all historical time periods. There are mountains of evidence attesting to this phenomena and virtually no contradictory evidence, only the reality-denying screeching of deluded leftists who insist on their blank-slate, culture-is-everything pseudoreligion.
    Justicedemon has made up quite a few laughers here, including his hilarious comments about “90% of Finnish vocabulary is borrowed” and “I can tell where someone’s grandparents lived based on their accent.” His “one-Finn-committed-many-crimes-in-Thailand-therefore-no-foreigners-ever-commit-crimes-in-Finland” analysis elicits the same sort of spontaneous mirthfulness.

    As for as the interminable bleating about “racism” is concerned, it is not important whether or not something is “racist”, but rather whether or not it is true. “Racism” explains absolutely nothing. It is simply a code-word for unjustly blaming the inability of non-Europeans to function according to minimum civilisational standards on Europeans. Usually, the people who use the word “racist” should not be taken seriously, as they are either unable to recognize truth, or actively attempting to spread falsehoods.

    1960s-era made-up pseudoscience of leftists: Races don’t exist, all humans and demographic groups are exactly the same, gender is a construct, crime is due to “racism”, if we “educate” enough and are “diverse” enough, our societies will become magical paradises.

    Reality: Gender is hard-wired by biology. All human behavioral traits, including intelligence, emotional range, aggressiveness, and altruism, are largely determined by genes. Importing large numbers of non-Europeans into Europe will make Europe like Bangui, Monrovia, or Sana’a. Take a look at Detroit, South London or Northern Paris for confirmation.

    • Enrique

      Eduardo, you are a barrel of laughs. Your rhetoric sounds like it is straight from Breivik’s “manifesto,” those who speak of “cultural marxists” like you have. One matter that I consider quite amusing is how the far right can make up a delusional world by simply switching a few concepts around and presto, the pseudo-truth appears before you. Time has moved forward in leaps and bounds from where you see other cultures. In the nineteenth century we had evolutionists who argue about cultures in the same way as you do.

      –Reality: Gender is hard-wired by biology. All human behavioral traits, including intelligence, emotional range, aggressiveness, and altruism, are largely determined by genes.

      Yep, “Eduardo,” this is the icing on your argument. We are robots guided by genes. Then if you feel so strongly about how genes model our behavior, you should read up on Eugen Fischer and eugenics. Maybe Alfred Rosenberg’s “The myth of the twentieth century” may interest you as well.

  22. Eduardo

    Ricky, I’m afraid that bleating about your favourite Norwegian or your favourite Nazis is not entirely convincing, particularly when none of those people wrote anything about the factors that underlie criminality, namely specific, highly heritable cognitive and personality traits. To refresh your memory: Breivik seemed angry about “Islam” and wanted to drive out all Muslims. Fischer and Rosenberg wrote far before the advent of the core principles of modern molecular biology, and Rosenberg wrote a long text that was mainly about European history. What does they have to do with the argument that human character traits are heritable?

    I’ll sum things up to make it very easy for you:

    A long time ago, people noticed that children resemble their parents in many ways. Tall people tend to have tall children, smart people tend to have smart children, dumb people tend to have dumb children, barring significant nutritional deficiencies and severe traumas in utero or in earliest childhood.
    In the early 20th century, some radical leftist pseudoscientists, undoubtedly livid with rage at the “racist” ideas of Darwin, began to cast doubt on the idea of heredity. They proposed that human traits were not due to any hereditary influence, but rather due to “environmental factors”, such as education or society. Back in the golden era of Marxist theory, the geniuses of the USSR decreed that there is no such thing as genes. All biological characteristics are “acquired” – this idea inspired that glorious Soviet maxim that we can “engineer human souls”, if we adopt the correct ideological stance and spend enough money.
    The only problem is, empirical research does not support these fanatical views. We can’t simply take poor little Ngebe or poor little Mehmet, give them 18 hours a day of indoctrination in diversityism, and expect him to master calculus or physics. Physical evidence was found for genes, in the form of DNA. It was found that virtually all traits pertaining to phenotype and morphology are subject to genetic factors, despite the doctrines of the elites in the rigidly ideological, neomarxist states of Northern Europe. For comrade Halonen and other Politburo authorities, unfortunately, this is simply taken as a sign that we need to “invest more in diversity training”.

    The reality of genes and heritability is why identical twins who have been separated at birth and raised in vastly different environments almost always have the same IQ, as Galton and others discovered. It is also why we can not accidentally slice off a male infant’s genitals, “socialize” the infant arbitrarily as female, and expect them to assume that gender identity (as several individuals were forced to tragically endure in the late 20th century at the hands of fanatical social engineers).

    Oh, but you are certainly thinking: “But NAZIS also conducted twin studies! Therefore all twin studies are inherently invalid forever! Plus, BREIVIK!! and NAZIS!!”. Well, Ricky, I’m afraid science doesn’t work that way.

    Justicesatan:
    The author of that letter suggests that Finnish and Sámi are closely related, and that Sámi borrowed Finnish words for agriculture. So what? Nothing new there.

  23. eyeopener

    Haha. Our friend Eduardo is here again. With his sometimes hidden but so often openly exposed preferences of racism, nazism, sexism etc. Well my dear friend. What’s up your sleeve this time??

  24. eyeopener

    @Enrique.

    Don’t worry about Eduardo and Allan. When you are aware of genetics than you know their parents, grandparents etc. Stupid dumm people who lived near the gutter where somewhere along the genetic line there was an infection that caused the brain-damage and the retardness of reasoning.

    Don’t advise them to read your literature suggestions. Far over their heads!! Some comic-book stories is just the level they can conceive.

    Let them suck their thumbs or maybe someting else 🙂

  25. Eduardo

    Justicesatan, if you feel so strongly that this letter-to-the-editor represents profoundly new Finno-Ugristic scholarship then you should get to work and submit your article to the Suomalais-Ugrilainen Seura as quickly as possible. Good luck with that. Maybe you call tell them as well where Hagelin’s grandparents are from.

    • Enrique

      Eduardo, what do you think about this video clip.

      Do you think this type of behavior builds bridges. How does you view of Muslims differ?

  26. Seppo

    “What is your response to the letter from Arvi Hagelin that I quoted above?”

    Arvi Hagelin presents some interesting viewpoints. He might be right about some things but he is completely wrong about some others. In any case, everyone who has studied linguistics even a bit realizes he is not a linguist, and his conclusions clearly fall into the category of pseudo-science. (I wanted to be 100% sure of his background and googled him but all I could find was that he is a secretary in some kalastusosakunta.)

    The oldest linguistic ancestors of Finnish- and Sami-speakers spoke one and same language, proto-Uralic. By 1000 BC proto-Sami and proto-Finnish had developed and speakers of these languages arrived to the land that is today called Finland, proto-Sami first, proto-Fennic tribes after them.

    “Nykyisten suomalaisten esi isät ovat siis tulleet Saamen maahan Lätin maalta (Látte eana, Lettland) Baltiasta.” Probably true.

    “Saamen kielen ja lätin kielen synteesin seurauksena syntyi uusi kieli, suomen kieli.” Impossible. Finnish has many loanwords from Baltic languages, but is structurally so similar to Sami (and not at all to Latvian), that that structural similarity ie. linguistic relatedness has had to exist already before. So, just like the Sami, proto-Finns were Uralic-speakers already before arriving to Finland.

    As a matter of fact proto-Sami and proto-Finnish were probably quite close to each other. However, while Sami preserved more of its original vocabulary, Finnish language adopted a lot of words not only from Baltic but also Germanic languages, and thus became different. Later southernmost Sami-speakers got assimilated into Finnish-speakers.

    It’s good to remember that when the Sami-speakers arrived to Finland some 3000 years ago, they were not the first human beings on this land, but after the end of the ice age (8500 BC) there probably had been several different peoples (very small numbers), some of them probably Indo-European.

    No-one has ever been anywhere “first”, maybe except for Armstrong on the moon.

    If you are more interested in the history of the Finnish language, I recommend the book I bought last year, Tapani Lehtinen: Kielen vuosituhannet http://kirjat.finlit.fi/index.php?showitem=1791

  27. justicedemon

    Eduardo

    I think it’s now fairly obvious that you can’t understand that letter.

    To prove me wrong, I’ll set you a simple reading comprehension exercise. How does the author explain the origins of the Finnish language? Choose one option only:

    1. Finnish is a mixture of Sámi and Latin.

    2. Finnish is a derivative of Sámi, as learned and spoken by immigrants from a region to the south of the Gulf of Finland.

    3. Finnish is the original language spoken by immigrants who drove Sámi speakers out of southern Finland, while enriching the Sámi language with concepts necessary for the practice of agriculture.

  28. justicedemon

    Seppo

    I think we broadly agree, but your reference to Lettish has nothing to do with Arvi Hagelin’s letter, and obviously it’s irrelevant what his job is now. I recall that Raimo Kerman, the former PR Director for the City of Helsinki, is something of an authority on the Finnish language despite spending his professional career outside of Academia.

    I was most interested in Arvi Hagelin’s account of the origin of the words Suomi and suomalainen, but let’s discuss that after our neofascist friend has tackled the little exercise above. 🙂

  29. Seppo

    “I was most interested in Arvi Hagelin’s account of the origin of the words Suomi and suomalainen.”

    Revealing the etymology behind Suomi and suomalainen has become a branch of linguistics of its own. Maybe it ends up being one of the few questions science can never answer for sure 🙂

    Here’s something to begin with, a sum-up of the views of some prominent Fenno-Ugrists: http://www.kotikielenseura.fi/virittaja/hakemistot/jutut/1998_613.pdf

    It’s for sure a loan word, now the debate is about whether it was originally a Baltic or a Germanic or perhaps even a proto-Indo-European loan. And through which languages and which changes it arrived to Finnish and got its present form.

    What most linguistists would agree, however, is that Suomi and Saame are not connected. Saame (also a loan) has the same root as Häme but Suomi has most probably a different etymology. Obviously they sound the same and for many reasons it is tempting to state that they are connected. But this is just one of the cases where “kitchen-linguists” like Arvi Hagelin should not start publishing their findings before getting thoroughly familiar with all the research that is done by some very talented researchers.

    (If I remember correctly, Tapani Lehtinen, whom I recommended, thinks that the best explanation is that Suomi is a very old Indo-European loan, meaning ‘man’, originally from the same root as for example the modern Italian uomo.)

    There is a discussion going on on the same topic by some guys who actually seem to know about these things: http://p1.foorumi.info/muinainensuomi/viewtopic.php?p=3852&sid=de4166a463283dd088e57cf114ab951e

  30. eyeopener

    @Justicedemon.

    I have a serious question for you:

    Can you develop more of these practical tests for PS supporters like you developed for Eduardo. Suggestion: test the PS supporters’ knowledge level of foreign cultures in 5 questions. Indicators can be:

    1 = absolute ignorance; go back to forest; you don’t get a reward and try test after 5 years.
    Goal: re-population of rural areas. Good for the tourist industry. Not so much foreign tourists though.

    2 = limited ignorance; one question right; still go back to the forest but you can re-try after 3 years because you show some understanding. You don’t get a reward.
    Goal: Open a bed-and-breakfast for “think-alikes”

    3 = Oeps; this guys has 2 answers right. Don’t need to go to the forest. Need to follow a re-European course in Intercultural Interactions (designed by Migrant Tales :-)). Rewards are not yet granted but when the re-do is positive (at least 3 answers right) the reward can be given.
    Goal: organize a “Whip-Whap” business plan to ensure you are always right.

    4= Now we get the better section. At least 3 good answers. You get an Advanced Level Award including a financial reward. You can collect more points in the next test which -when successful- will increase your value for the national state. Maybe a Ministry position in Immigrations Affairs.
    Goal: “WAGS” . In 82% of the cases you are right!!

    5= Bingo. All questions right. You will be appointed as President of Finland. Rewards you can find in the law.
    GOAL: You got IT!! What ??

    Cool!! Have fun. Awaiting your suggestions.

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