RPT-Swedish govt still short of majority after recount

by , under All categories, Enrique

This election is going to be a real nail-biter…

(Reuters) – Sweden’s centre-right government was still just short of a parliament majority after a preliminary recount of Sunday’s election, though it picked up one more seat.

The election commission said in a statement that the preliminary result of the recount, which included overseas and postal votes not counted on election night, gave Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt 173 seats in the 349-seat parliament rather than the 172 announced on election night.

A total 175 seats are needed for a majority.

The new centre-right seat was gained from the Social Democrat-led opposition bloc, which went down to 156 seats.

The anti-immigrant Sweden Democrats, shunned by both blocs, stayed at 20 seats and still held the balance of power, the count showed.

  1. Klay_Immigrant

    It will be interesting to see if Sweden follows the same route taken by Denmark with the Right-wing Danish People’s Party in cooperation with the Conservative-Liberal coalition government resulting in the implementation of some of their key demands, such as strong immigration restriction policies, which have resulted in what have been described as Europe’s strictest immigration laws.

    The Sweden Democrats could maybe play a similar role.

    • Enrique

      Who knows but I doubt it. Will the SD getting into government mean change the immigration laws many times as in Denmark with the excuse that “now we are going to tighten policy?..” It is very sad that a country like Denmark can become so xenophobic. But it shows that racism is an undercurrent deeply entrenched in some societies ready to rise to the surface when the conditions are right. I don’t think Sweden is in the same league as countries like Denmark, Holland and France. I doubt that England would ever go down such a questionable path because of its liberal, democratic principles.

      Let’s see if the centre-right government in Sweden gets a majority after the votes have been counted.

  2. Klay_Immigrant

    It is intriguing looking at the results of Sweden’s general election. Guess where the SD received the greatest support? In the Scania province with 10% of the vote which so happens to have the most multicultural area (Malmo) in the whole Nordic region. So even though the electoral voters there would have had the lowest percentage of ethnic Swedes the SD is still has the highest popularity there than anywhere else.

    This is a clear indicator that in terms of immigration the voters who actually have the most exposure with foreigners are the unhappiest in the whole country. More evidence that multiculturalism is a failing experiment.

    • Enrique

      –More evidence that multiculturalism is a failing experiment.

      Yes, right. Kick out all the different cultures from Sweden so we won’t have any “failed experiments.” That failed experiment you speak of is what gave you the opportunity to be in England and eduate yourself. So don’t be such an ingrate.

  3. Jonas

    SD will not get into government. All the pre-19 september parliamentary parties have ruled it out. There is now talk that they will even come to an agreement to reduce the number of members in parliamentary committees to 15 in order to be able to exclude SD from membership in them (under the current size, SD would automatically be entitled to membership in all the committees). The danger with this is that it would then be hard to know how SD will be planning to vote in the plenary sessions – making the government vulnerable to collapse if they suddenly vote in the same way as the opposition. But I don’t see the opposition parties’ red-green cooperation lasting much longer. Many Social Democrats are critical of it and consider it part of the reason why they may have performed so badly. And on many issues, the Environment Party are non-ideological, they have many common ideas as the centre-right.

    Klay, It is probably not just because of the high number of immigrants in Skåne that SD got a large level of support; most of the party leadership is from the south, it’s where they have their roots. So, they’ve been around longer there (i.e. they’ve had a heavy presence at the municipal level in Skåne even since 2006 election). Landskrona is infamous for being SD’s stronghold – and it is notable that whilst SD went forward in the rest of the country, they went backwards in Landskrona. So, perhaps this shows that after seeing how SD actually run things when they do have power, the people wake up to what they are really like.
    Sweden has had minority government for most of the last few decades, so it’s not unprecedented. Swedish law means that to block a government’s budget, all the other parties would have to come up with a joint counter-proposal. And of course, the chances that the Social Democrats, Environment Party and Left Party would all agree to a common budget with SD are somewhere below zero percent. So, it should be possible for the existing centre-right Alliance to govern – they may encounter problems when it comes to things like Afghanistan (SD is against a Swedish presence, and it would might present the Social Democrats problems to support the government even if their line is quite similar to the Alliance’s – they just disagree on when the troops should eventually come out).

    There is a slight chance that the final results in Värmland (where the result is very close, double-digit numbers of votes separating a mandate going to the opposition Social Democrats or member of the government Folkpartiet) will be appealed and thus not be clear until November. The Swedish media is reporting that a procedural irregularity has occurred during the voting count verification there. Some one handed a pile of votes in one municipality instead of them coming the proper election sealed bag.

    • Enrique

      Thank you for the link, Tony.

      A colleague of mine wrote the following matter about the present situation and how some parties stand on immigration: “The critical issue is to develop and display leadership. The negative side is the growth of far-right, xenophobic parties who target immigrants as the source of pre-existing woes.”

      “The attitude expressed in some Finnish circles of maassa maan tavalla, indicates an expectation that this should or will always stay the same and that immigration – if it is allowed – should always be a one-way process.”

  4. Tony Garcia

    “…should always be a one-way process.”

    Worked for you, worked for me…

    Anyway, nice rhetoric, but getting to back to real world, once you said that I give too much credit to True Finns, I said I don’t and I still say so.

    It’s not about what the True Finns will do but what the main parties will when they fell the heat. All of this is happening just based on polls, think about if we succeed in put a few True Finns in the parliament…

    • Enrique

      –Anyway, nice rhetoric, but getting to back to real world,

      It’s not “rhetoric” and it IS the real world. There are many examples of how immigration has failed thanks to one-way opportunistic thinking that has nothing to do with reality.

      I was able to adapt because my mother is Finnish and because I was accepted by some.

      The True Finns, as you know, have five seats in Parliament. The Eduskunta comprises of 200 members. Leadership, Tony, not caving in.

  5. Tony Garcia

    “Leadership, Tony, not caving in.”

    That’s the part I don’t understand, how do you know they are caving in? Isn’t that possible the they used to cave in before but now they are being honest about immigration?

    Despite what you think is right, how can you say they don’t believe what they are saying is right? Don’t you think the current political clime has allowed politicians to come “out of the closet”?

    • Enrique

      –Despite what you think is right, how can you say they don’t believe what they are saying is right? Don’t you think the current political clime has allowed politicians to come “out of the closet”?

      So spreading hatred and enforcing not only your ideas but your concept on others is right? Let them come out of the closet because there are a lot of them. But this is a more sinister coming out of the closet than stating you are gay.

  6. Tony Garcia

    That’s an interesting analyze, Iraqis running for SD. Apparently I’m not the only “traitor” around here, and once they know better than us what Islam is, it make one wonder why they had chosen to run for a party with is particularly against Islam…

    http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Three+of+the+new+Sweden+Democrat+intake+have+Finnish+roots/1135260355029

    “The political researcher Anders Sannerstedt from Lund University…The demarcation line between immigrants and immigrants in the SD view is religion, and specifically Islam.The party actually had candidates who are of Middle Eastern extraction. For instance in Södertälje there were four immigrants on the local election lists – one Finn and three others, including Iraqi Christians”, Sannerstedt continues.”

    • Enrique

      Nobody said you are a “traitor.” However, it does not mean anything that immigrants may support a party like the SD. Some immigrants are more conservative than natives. Immigrants compete for resources such as work and resources. Competition creates friction and some to take below-the-belt punches.

    • Enrique

      –You just love this phrase, don’t you?

      Far-right xenophobic groups were in mode in Europe during the 1930s. What surprises me is that you are ready to throw away our democratic values for your suspicion of a WHOLE group. I think that is pretty incredible.

  7. Tony Garcia

    “Nobody said you are a “traitor.””

    I know, but once blacks join the Tea Party are, this is just a interest way to see the similarities between the left in the US and Finland.

    “xenophobic”

    Another word you just can’t live without…

    “Immigrants compete for resources such as work and resources. Competition creates friction and some to take below-the-belt punches.”

    I really love the way you dismiss what is inconvenient…

    • Enrique

      Tony, I can live without that word. However, some are afraid to use it because they think that the situation isn’t that serious.

  8. Klay_Immigrant

    Some observations from this election regarding the SD party:-

    1. Had their rallies disrupted by political activists associated with left-wing and anti-racist movements.

    2. Some SD party members were threatened.

    3. For many years, the party’s meetings have been disturbed by demonstrations by left-wing groups such as Anti-Fascist Action and other opposing groups.

    4. On 13 September in Gothenburg, about 500 counter-demonstrators prevented the Sweden Democrats from making a planned election rally. On 14 September, the Sweden Democrats cancelled planned rallies in three cities, Eskilstuna, Karlstad, and Uddevalla, because of security concerns. Similarly, concerns about security led to an election tour being cancelled on 15 September in Norrköping

    5. A privately owned television network, TV4, refused to air a SD campaign video, which was then uploaded to Youtube and viewed more than 600,000 times.

    Now in a so called free and open society does anyone think these events should still have happened? What about free speech? Fair enough if somebody doesn’t agree with their policies, that’s their right but that’s no excuse for not allowing the same platform and exposure as other parties. Parties should all be treated the same way, that’s what Democracy stands for, not censorship that is exercised in Communism or Dictatorship.

    These far-left groups and individuals who are responsible for these actions are practising the same ideals as they are preaching against, intolerance. Intolerance against right-wing parties.

    • Enrique

      Two wrongs don’t make a right and violence has not place in society. However, check out this TV commercial and tell how how much xenophobia and hatred it spreads. My apologies for the racist content of this commercial.

    • Enrique

      Here is part of an article in Haaretz.com of Israel. It is interesting that even if the Sweden Democrats are showing their Islamophobic side, the Jewish community is fearing for the worse in Sweden:

      It will not be long before the true anti-Semitic nature of the far-right anti-immigrant Sweden Democrats (SD) party – which won an unprecedented number of seats in Sunday’s elections, is revealed – a leader of the local Jewish community there warned on Monday.

      “This is a neo-Nazi party… articulate, and talented…but very dangerous,” said Lena Posner, President of the Official Council of Jewish communities in Sweden, an umbrella organization of Jewish groups in the country. “We know where these people are coming from. They are Nazi sympathizers who, under their jackets, are still wearing their brown shirts.”

      Here is an article that appeared in The Local: http://www.thelocal.se/18536/20090330/

      After reading these stories about the Sweden Democrats, it should not come to any surprise why there is so much concern.

  9. Jonas

    TV4 refused to show the advert because it judged it to break laws regarding incitement to racial hatred and it would have been liable to legal action if shown. Remember, TV4 did agree to sell advertising space to this racist party which is more than many newspapers did. The advert was eventually shown but with a blank screen and text “Censored by TV4” during the racist imagery of the burka-clad women chasing the pensioner. TV4 agreed to this wording. This was shown quite a lot and in prime-time (we subscribe to Swedish tv and have TV4 at home). Åkesson was given lots of media exposure on both TV4 and SVT’s election programmes, and their possible entering parliament and holding the balance of power was frequently amongst the main news stories – especially in discussion of each new opinion poll. In summary, they got much more coverage than their support commanded.

    The case of one of SDs candidates being attacked which carried a lot of news coverage, the one with the guy who had a Swastika carved into him, was later found after investigation by the police and doctors to be that he had done it to himself!!

    • Enrique

      Hi Jonas, it is funny how things sometimes work. I think the problem is that there is a lack of leadership and commitment by the political community and media to stand up against racism. The worst thing you can do is to be indfferent to it or give your unwanting or wanting nod of approval with silence. In Europe we have a special problem with racism. We can see it in our history. Racism has served us us well in the past in advancing our economic/political interests. Look at the colonial period, 1930s, former Yugoslavia or the True or Basic Finns as you like to call them. These have been, however, short-term gains at the cost of huge blunders.
      The fact that we are or play ignorant to racism serves far-right groups well. It not only gives them the opportunity to capitalize on our fears they do it under the guise of “liberty of expression” and “democracy.” As you know, this is a bunch of major boloney because, if in power, the first thing they would do is limit the civil rights of people they loathe. First they will target a certain group and then run down their list of others they loathe.

  10. Jonas

    Yes, I agree with you Enrique. Fortunately, in Sweden both the media and politicians have been relatively clear in their outspokenness against racism. Even though most newspapers in Sweden are of the centre-right, they have carried extremely strongly worded editorials against SD/racism. Both evening papers had their headlines on election day as things like Today we reject racism etc. Note that all the other parties have rejected working with SD. It is interesting to contrast this with the position in Finland. As far as I am aware, no political party has categorically ruled out working with the Basic/True Finns (although I think it would be impossible for SFP or the Greens to cooperate with them for the obvious reasons that so much True Finn critic is directed towards their key areas). Media coverage of them is far more positive and treats them essentially as a normal party today. Now, I know it is problematic to draw a direct comparison between SD and the True Finns as parties; SD are clearly far worse with direct links to Nazi organisations – but none-the-less, I think it clear to most sensible people that the True Finns are populists and xenophobic.

    I think Finnish politics are in a bad place in recent times. We seem to lack great figures in our politics just now. There are no Virolainens, Ahtisaaris or Lipponens. Halonen is on the way out and in any case the presidency has little power today. Our current crop of political leaders seem only to follow the wind rather than speaking out and attempting to lead political and public opinion. That surely is also a roll of politicians. It’s all gone rather populist and low-brow.

    • Enrique

      You are right, Jonas, in pointing out the differences in Sweden and Finland. Still we should ask what kind of a party are the True/Basic Finns. Are they far-right? If we look at some of their members like Halla-aho, Hirvisaari or Van Wonterghem (he apparently denies that the Holocaust took place) what makes them so different from other far-right groups in Europe concerning immigration? Is it a politico-cultural nuance? Is what they are saying in Finnish the same that the SD, Lega Nord and others are demanding elsewhere?
      Even if we were officially a co-belligerent to Nazi Germany in WW2, there was no fascist fanatism in this country like in Hungary. This is of course debatable. True, there was the Lapua liike but it wasn’t that expressive of its fascism. So, are the Basic/True Finns “diplomatic” about their outright racism in the Finnish political context and if in power, with people like Halla-aho and Hirvisaari, be in deeds just as bad as the SD?

  11. Jonas

    Well, another comparison that is first necessary is that between the views of the mainstream parties in Finland and Sweden where it concerns immigration. Quite simply, essentially all parties in Finland are to the right of their Swedish counterparts when it comes to immigration. It would be unthinkable for a leading Swedish social democrat to stand up in parliament and condemn immigration and immigrants in the way that Kari Rajamäki has done, for example. Even Urpilainen herself has made some quite harsh statements on immigration – she infamously told Yle that immigratants must “ta seden dit de kommer” (maassa maan tavalla). Even Folkpartiet, which is perhaps the most “right wing” on immigration amongst the democratic parties in the Swedish parliament looks relatively progressive in the Finnish context. So, I suppose against that background the Basic True Finns are not as extreme by definition, as their political lines do not differ as markedly from the “mainstream” as SD’s do in Sweden.
    Certainly there are members in True Finns that are undeniably racist, the Hallo-ahos of this world.
    The more worrying thing is that True Finns are already, as we see, influencing the discourse and policies of the mainstream parties in a way that SD are not doing in Sweden. The True Finns have not been rejected as unsanitary and undemocratic by the mainstream as SD have been in Sweden. And thus, whilst SD may continue to express their racist views, there is less chance that they will lead to real policy changes – unlike here, where there is a real risk that you could even end up with True Finns in a government. As such, the situation here is much more similar to what we’ve seen happen in Denmark.

    • Enrique

      If we are going down the path of Denmark, we are going to be in big trouble with respect to xenophobia and racism. Denmark is a black spot in Europe in this respect. The April 2011 elections will reveal a lot about this country. It is difficult to tell whether Kari Rajamäki isn’t a True Finns at heart. It explains why so many Social Democrats are jumping to the True Finns’ side. As I mentioned, it is a sad day for the Social Democrats that it has been taken over by the likes of Rajamäk. This “maassa maan tavala” is a bunch of demagogic boloney. The Social Democrat leadership is telling us that they don’t have a clue about how to make immigration work and think, on top of that, that nothing will change. All they have to do is lie on their beds and let the immigrants practice “maassa maan tavalla.” Their immigration policy has all the ingridients of disaster.

      By the way, I think one has to look at the different parties’ immigration stances on what they DON’T state. The Social Democrats, for example, don’t really tell you what “maassa maan tavalla” means.

  12. Jonas

    Yes, I think that is true. I think it just shows a lack of leadership amongst the SDP’s top. They are unprepared to try and shape public opinion, they are not attempting to form the argument. They should be out there saying why we need immigration, why we should stand up to racism and intolerance, what progressive policies are required to facilitate integration and societal cohesion. After all, equality is a keystone of social democracy. Instead they see the Basic True Finns stealing their voters and just adjust their message to the same populist drawl as a defence mechanism. It is sad.

    Denmark is indeed a sad example of what can happen when parties are unprepared to show leadership and instead just pander to populism. It is however largely what we are seeing here.

    Interesting press statement from Stefan Wallin in the context of the Swedish election result:
    http://www.sfp.fi/start/#article-839-6031-wallin-den-liberala-rosten-behovs
    “In the Finnish election campaign, SFP will be the liberal alternative for those that oppenly dare to distance themselves from racism and are prepared to discuss immigration matters in a constructive way.”

    He has hit the nail on the head of what I was saying above: we have a problem in Finland that our mainstream party heads are not coming out and saying clearly and concisely that they reject the populist politics of hate espoused by the Basic True Finns.

  13. Klay_Immigrant

    Jonas and Enrique since you two are very negative about Denmark’s approach to immigration, tell me what problems have occurred directly from the Danish People’s Party’s immigration policies? They are been in charge of that area for nearly 10 years so any deficiencies would have showed up by now.

    • Enrique

      –Jonas and Enrique since you two are very negative about Denmark’s approach to immigration, tell me what problems have occurred directly from the Danish People’s Party’s immigration policies?

      I will speak for myself. When you ask me such a question you are loading it with a lot of opinions and stances. It is like asking: Do you like living in a country where they enjoy discriminating against women and why it is good to discriminate as a general rule. I personally don’t like xenophobia, fear-mongering and watering down of civil rights. Do I like living in a country where the head of the head of the Danish People’s Party, Pia Kjaersgaard, speaks in an inflamtory tone stating that if Swedes want to turn their cities into “Scandinavian Beiruts,” the country can always put a barrier on the Oeresund Bridge? How many times has Denmark tightened its immigration laws? The latest one this year will change the rules for asylum-seekers, impose greater restrictions on family reunions. But there is a good thing: permanent residence will be granted after four versus the present seven years.

      Would I like to live in a country that is Islamophobic and adjusts its immigration laws to keep Mulsims away? Do I want to live in a country that does not celebrate otherness but loathes it?
      With all this very thick atmosphere in Denmark, what does it say about society and its diversity if it isn’t Danish?

      What kind of a country do parties like the Danish People’s Party want to build? What future seeds of conflict and hatred are you sowing today?

  14. Jonas

    Denmark is today one of the most closed societies in Europe. Even Danes who marry a non-European can not live in their homeland if they want to live together with their partner? If Søren Hansen meets the girl of his dreams in the USA, or Ghana, or Thailand, or Singapore or wherever, and they want to live together in Denmark, she can’t. Does this sound sensible or progressive? It sounds xenophobic and regressive to me. Think how the rhetoric of closed-doors and Denmark for the Danes must make those who are not ethnically-Danish feel in the country in which they live. The politics of scapegoating and hatred is not the way to promote societal cohesion.

  15. Klay_Immigrant

    -‘Even Danes who marry a non-European can not live in their homeland if they want to live together with their partner?’

    Jonas I’m going to have to correct you here as this statement is false and misleading.

    It’s possible if both partners are aged 24 or over, passed a solvency test showing the Dane had not claimed social security for 12 months and could lodge a bond of 60,011 kroner (about 10,100 USD).

    One declared aim of this was to fight arranged marriages. These rules had the effect that while about 8,151 family reunification permits were granted in 2002, the number had fallen to 3,525 by 2005.

  16. Klay_Immigrant

    As shown by Enrique’s and Jonas’ answers to my question they could not show me any practical problems (backed up by statistical data) that have occurred directly because of Denmark’s strict immigration polices. Their answers were purely subjective. Whereas a large variety of data has been shown to prove that multiculturalism is failing and creates added troubles.

  17. xyz

    Whereas a large variety of data has been shown to prove that multiculturalism is failing and creates added troubles.
    -How is it possible that big companies can operate? They have people employed from all over the world. That’s a good example that people with different background can work together.

  18. Hannu

    Xyz By not taking employees who just show up and claim that they didnt like last employer so they come here and now company have understand and tolerate them or they will break things more.

  19. Jonas

    If that is the case Klay, I would say that it is only partially false. What if you’re not 24, what if you have been unemployed or had to claim sickness benefits – does that then mean you are banned from falling in love? What happens if you don’t have 62 231 kronor to spare – also banned from love? I’d not like to live in a society that is as cold in its treatment of people as that.

    You also don’t mention this requirement regarding “attachment” to Danmark, which sounds like it gives good grounds for the authorities to come up with reasons to stop people from coming in even if they are married to a Dane. You can read its requirements here if you read Scandinavian:
    http://www.nyidanmark.dk/da-dk/Ophold/familiesammenfoering/aegtefaeller/tilknytningskrav.htm

    I am assuming they strictly enforce these regulations or that many can’t afford to pay the sum as many are forced to live in Sweden in order to be able to live together (the Dane can then commute to Denmark for work via Öresundsbron). The ludicrousness of the Danish position is bought home when you consider that after a few years of living in Sweden, the non-Danish partner will be eligible to apply for Swedish citizenship and thus have the right to move to Denmark via the Nordic (and EU) freedom of movement.

    Peoples’ lives are not about statistics. You can’t measure the benefits or negatives of multiculturalism by relying on statistics. You must also use human empathy. Again, I ask, how would you feel if you were a Dane of Pakastini-origin living in a country where such cold winds are blowing towards immigrants. There have been at least a couple of very good documentaries on Swedish television about the situation in Denmark and they do not paint a happy picture. Only the other day it was reported by a member of a neo-Nazi group in Denmark who was sentenced to prison several years ago for the incitement to racial hatred, he has just been realised – on his release he told the media it was ridiculous that he was put in prison as they were now saying worse things than he had send on the floor of Folketinget. That shows you the direction Danish politics has moved in.

    All in all, I stand-by what I said: Denmark has become one of the most closed societies in Europe.

    • Enrique

      Jonas, thank you for the explanation. Statistics are important but they can give a distorted picture of things. However, I would like to ask Klay what interesting statistical information he would have to share with us about Denmark.

  20. Tiwaz

    -“How is it possible that big companies can operate? They have people employed from all over the world. That’s a good example that people with different background can work together.”

    By demanding complete submission to company decided work culture in every worker.

    The very opposite of multiculturalism. There is one culture which trumps all else in international companies. They do not accept worker demands for appeasement. Demand of special treatment leads to rapid redeployment to “kilometritehdas”.

  21. xyz

    This tells me that you have never worked for an international company. They are using the knowledge of their people to operate in different markets.

  22. Jonas

    XYZ is right in my experience. I have moved around three countries with my job for an international company (a Nordic-HQ’d one at that – and no, not Nokia 😉 ). People do certainly move offices at the top level and I am quite sure that regional headquarters are less likely to be placed in Copenhagen as a result of Denmark’s politics.

    • Enrique

      Jonas, good point about HQs in Copenhagen. Sometimes we have to has simple questions like why racism and xenophobia are bad. One of the consequences could be a fall in foreign investment. Investments and able people will move elsehwere. Why waste your time in a country that excludes you in the first place?

  23. Tony Garcia

    “Statistics are important but they can give a distorted picture of things.”

    I always found very interesting how you set the board never forgetting to protect the flanks. You are probably a good chess player. When I post here plenty on statistics proving the Somalis fail wherever they go that is a “distorted picture”, however the unemployment figures proves without a doubt discrimination in Finland.

    You may be a good journalist but as public relations you would be the best…

  24. Hannu

    http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/547

    “The Danish government intends to significantly curb the flow of immigrants from third-world countries next year. The reason for this decision is a new official report on the Danish welfare system which was made public today (December 7). According to Claus Hjort Frederiksen, the Minister for Employment, immigrants from countries such as Somalia, Iran, Iraq and Lebanon are a huge burden on Danish welfare (a similar study was produced in Norway last September). Frederiksen said that immigrants allowed into the country had to have a job waiting for them.

    “We are simply forced to adopt a new policy on immigration. The calculations of the welfare committee are terrifying and show how unsuccessful the integration of immigrants has been up to now,” said Frederiksen. The committee calculated among other things what it would mean if immigration to Denmark from third-world countries would be blocked completely. The conclusion was that 75% of the cuts needed in the welfare system in the next decades would disappear.”

    Common story, Denmark just cant afford all that richness and possibilities.

    • Enrique

      Hannu, why don’t they stop beating around the bush and put out a sign: We don’t want any immigration from outside the EU. But don’t worry, I don’t think that many would even want to move to such a place.

  25. Tony Garcia

    “Hannu, why don’t they stop beating around the bush and put out a sign: We don’t want any immigration from outside the EU.”

    You ask statists, so you get an official report from the Danish government, and that’s how you deal with it? Unbelievable…

    • Enrique

      Tony, I am a little bit lost now. What official report from the Danish government? Do you mean the article in the Brussels Journal?

  26. Tony Garcia

    So it’s all fabrication then, there is not such a report, Muslims are doing very well in Denmark and Frederiksen never said anything. Quite the opposite, he actually wants to open the door even more.

    OR…

    There is a report, Muslims are not doing very well (not their fault obviously) and Frederiksen have been saying “things”, but it’s all manipulation from the “racist” Dutch government against the “most vulnerable”.

  27. Hannu

    “I don’t think that many would even want to move to such a place.”

    Many wont want to move in austaria too then, there you have prove that you are able and sign contract that you will support your fiancee “so he/she doesnt be burden on counry”. Deposit seems to be decided case by case if its needed if i understood correctly.

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