PS MP Hakkarainen instigates social-media lynch mob from Singapore

by , under Enrique

By Enrique Tessieri

Scandal-ridden Perussuomalaliset (PS) party MP, Teuvo Hakkarainen, has stuck his foot in his mouth again. This time  he has taken the law in his hands and instigated a social-media lynch mob against two minors found guilty of rape, according to Keskisuomalainen. The Jyväskylä-based daily reports that Hakkarainen published on his Facebook page a link to court documents that give the accused names, identification numbers, addresses and even their parents’ names.

“The court case can be found by anyone,” he was quoted as saying. “It’s not a problem. The link is there and that’s that. I don’t protect rapists. If someone wants to protect them it’s their business but I don’t protect them.”

A person apparently belonging to a far-right association tried to post the full text of the court case on Migrant Tales, which acted promptly to take them down thanks to our associate editors JusticeDemon and Mark.

Hakkarainen writes on his Facebook page, where all the posts on his wall have been now removed, the following from Singapore:  …I pleasantly  found out [in Singapore] that first and foremost immigrants that come to live here work and respect the local culture and people. It’s unfortunate that not everyone that goes there [to Finland] doesn’t share the same positive attitude, especially those in this case [below he shows a link to the court documents] of gross lack of respect…”

In his shortlived Facebook statement, Hakkarainen defends what he did by publishing the court documents because the media doesn’t do its job. Part of the court documents have been made secret until 2072. In Finland, the names of those that have been accused of crimes that carry over two-year prison sentences are not published by the media.

While a crime like rape must be strongly condemned by society, it is equally unacceptable that a public official like an MP takes justice in his hands.

Hakkarainen’s social-media call to lynch the sentenced minors reveals two disturbing matters: The PS MP from Viitasaari is unrepentant about his many former racist gaffes; by scapegoating people with non-white Finnish backgrounds he tries to absolve his past problematic behavior.

Migrant Tales wrote the previous month how anti-immigration groups like the PS plan a vicious campaign against immigrants and minorities in order to boost their sagging popularity. The Helena Eronen-James Hirvisaari scandal is one recent example as is the present ploy by Hakkarainen to publish hitherto-secret court documents.

Another case is far-right hardline anti-immigration PS MP Olli Immonen, who suggested that East European Roma beggars should be deported from Finland in the same way that the fascist Lapuan liike movement (1929-32) did to its enemies to the former Soviet Union.

Taking into account the recent and present scandals that are rocking the PS, one could ask if its chairman Timo Soini has lost control over the party and what we are seeing in fact is a power struggle between two rival groups: the Rural Party and far-right anti-immigration wing.

A column published by Yrjö Rautio on Apu magazine makes the same conclusion as Migrant Tales. That is exactly what is taking place at this moment.

  1. D4R

    It’s a strange that he decided to publish the criminals ID and home address in the internet, because these kids are Black and Immigrants, but would he done it if it was a native Finn the offender? i doubt it, what do you think?

  2. D4R

    Also, it’s seems though the P.S party in the parliamanet is all about war against us immigrants, especially Somalis and Moslims overall.

    • Migrant Tales

      D4R, unfortunately that is the case: The PS has declared war on immigrants, visible minorities and the media that criticizes it.

  3. Väinämöinen

    what is most disguisting here is that fellow immigrants are sympatizing with the sex-men. Show how low they can sink, but it doesn’t seem to bother you too much.

  4. eyeopener

    Väinämöinen.

    What is disgusting is that parliamentaries take the law in their hands. This is low as people can sink and act like a baby!!

    D4R is not sympatizising with these minors. He actually says: “…..criminals’ ID and home addresses in the Internet……” So, trying to distort the facts again??.

    You haven’t learned anything at all in your scambled life, do you V.??

    So low that it isn’t even simple anymore.

    • Migrant Tales

      eyeopener, if Väinämöinen had his ways, he take the law in his hands and carry out his own distorted sense of justice.

  5. eyeopener

    Hi MT. It seems that way.

    It also seems that PS are having to set themselves to live with a right “wing of fools”.

    The gentlemen agreement not to publish court cases with a two-years’ prison sentence makes a whole lot of sense to me. People who are found guilty after the legal procedures have been exhausted and will serve their sentence don’t need to be punish by the public again. That’s where the law and the judiciary are for, aren’t they??

    Igniting a “social media lynch mob” seems a criminal act to me!! We do not live in “lawless times” I guess But this behavior has its examples in the past. “copy-and-paste” is hardly a sign of intelligence. It’s as low as people can sink!!

    But it’s the behavior we already know for a long long time, don’t we??

  6. eyeopener

    Hi!!

    This guy is Singapore.

    He better takes care of his tongue. They have death penalty over there for people who insult religion.

    And be careful of addressing people.

    Cultural intelligence doesnot seem to be his core competence!!.

    Finnish embassy!! Red alert!!

  7. justicedemon

    The names of the offenders are not subject to the 60-year confidentiality order. They can be found in the statement of judgment (tuomiolauselma), which is a resumé of the outcome of the trial. It is customary in the Finnish press not to publish such details unless the outcome is a sentence of more than two years’ imprisonment, and the 60-year confidentiality order does not prevent such publication.

    Instead the prime purpose of the confidentiality order is to protect the identity of the complainant. Even though the complainant is ordinarily referred to only by an initial letter in the full judgement, the evidentiary details normally make it quite easy for a wide circle of acquaintances and closely associated bystanders to identify the complainant.

    Teuvo Hakkarainen has shown a quite deplorable degree of indifference to the important private interest that the court was seeking to protect.

    As Ricky noted above, several attempts have very recently been made to post the same link anonymously on Migrant Tales. Realising the gravity of the private interest at stake, our moderators took precautions to prevent this, as any right thinking person should have done.

    It’s one thing to be a clown who says a few stupid things and leaves his underpants in a biker bar, and quite another to be a blundering oaf who deliberately risks the health and wellbeing of a vulnerable child.

    We can also note that the judgement was not final. In the event of appeal, the evidence will have to be heard again – as and when the complainant is capable of testifying. This latest disclosure could easily traumatise or otherwise damage the complainant to the extent that the appeal becomes untryable.

  8. eyeopener

    Hi JD.

    Thanks for the explanation. I had already this feeling. Absolutely sensible!! It makes the more clear how despaerate H. cs. are to amke themselves known. Playing on the feelings of people who have no idea about the case.

    This narcissitic behavior is harmful for the complainant.

    As I have stated somewhere else: the case hasn’t ende yet. Not all legaöl means have been used nor appeals have been entered.

    Mr. H. as a parliamentary member overshoots his position by claiming that these minors are criminals!!. Isn’t it so that somebody is guilty and convicted AFTER all means of the law have been used??

    How far is the PS, but also Finnish society at large willing to go to accept undemocratic, racism fuming allegations against foreign people irrespective color, gender and age.

    Europe-wide policy services are under heavy scrutiny of racial complaints. That doesn’t improve the “neutrality” and “independence” image of the judiciary. Judges are forces to step down from their seats (right in my opinion) when proclaiming a favourable opinion against racism.

    What about the police force?? Their responsibilities?? See the cases against the MET in London, policy service suspensions in the Netherlands, France Italy etc. What about Finland??

    What about parliamentaries?? Are they above the law?? Since when??

    Isn’t it time to reconsider the content of tyhe “freedom of speech”?? Reconsider the contents as laid down in the Constitution?

    We live in 2012!!

  9. Jaakko Raipala

    “Teuvo Hakkarainen has shown a quite deplorable degree of indifference to the important private interest that the court was seeking to protect.”

    Except, NO, the court has unusually declared the names public. They would have been hidden if the victim had requested it. The entire document is public; there is nothing illegal whatsoever in spreading any of the information.

    And indeed, the newspapers already spread enough information about the damn *victim* to identify her, while completely neglecting to mention any information about the rapists, which is why Finns are apeshit over this: it’s just the regular “let’s pile shit on the Finnish victim, let’s do everything we can do protect foreign rapists”.

    Hakkarainen is a clown but this is going to make him popular. If the press tries to turn this into a “scandal” of some sort, Hakkarainen is going to be the most popular politician in Finland.

    • Migrant Tales

      Hi Jaakko, and welcome to our blog, Migrant Tales.

      One matter concerned me about what you said about Hakkarainen: “If the press tries to turn this into a “scandal” of some sort, Hakkarainen is going to be the most popular politician in Finland.”

      If you go to Hakkarainen’s Facebook page you’ll not that there are no comments on his wall.

      I disagree. I think the media must play hard ball with people like Hakkarainen. Another good example is Turun Sanomat with Helena Eronen.

  10. Mark

    Jaakko

    And indeed, the newspapers already spread enough information about the damn *victim* to identify her, while completely neglecting to mention any information about the rapists, which is why Finns are apeshit over this: it’s just the regular “let’s pile shit on the Finnish victim, let’s do everything we can do protect foreign rapists”.

    Why ‘damn’ victim?

    The rapists ethnicity is irrelevant unless you wish to spread ethnic agitation. If you are interested in the number of foreigners committing rape this is reported to the police or convicted by the courts, you can check national statistics. If you are really interested in the rights of women and reducing rape and discovering the real state of affairs in Finland, I suggest you follow Tukinainen.

    There is absolutely NO reason to seek out the rapes by foreigners on an individual basis as if this somehow constitutes a WORSE event than if it was committed by a Finn. It is wrong whoever does it, for whatever reason and in whatever circumstances.

    By politicising rape and ethnicity in this way, Hakkarainen has breached his bond of trust to the Finnish electorate to behave in a dignified way and to represent all his constituents without prejudice. It is not his job or any politicians job to ‘add’ to a courts decision by using his public office to promote public outrage in the case of individual crime cases.

    Politicians are normally very circumspect in commenting on individual crime cases, partly because of ongoing judicial processes and also because they cannot be seen to favour or disfavour individual citizens.

    Hakkarainen hasn’t a clue. Still, I’m sure it will win him votes. And that only makes it all the more disgusting.

  11. justicedemon

    Jaakko

    You have to distinguish between the public statement of judgement (tuomiolauselma) and the full decision of the court – which the court sealed until 2072 specifically at the request of the complainant.

    How else can you interpret salainen 2072 asti?

    I agree with your comment regarding the earlier media coverage, but that does not in any way justify releasing a sealed decision.

  12. Farang

    It tells all necessary about you guys that you are more concerned about Hakkarainen publishing a link to the information which is already in internet, than you are about those two somali immigrants who raped Finnish girl.

  13. Farang

    This comment fell short of our community standards and was deleted by a moderator. Replies may also be deleted.

    RL 11:10

  14. Jaakko Raipala

    Mark:”The rapists ethnicity is irrelevant unless you wish to spread ethnic agitation.”

    But then sometimes it is time to spread ethnic agitation. Everybody believes that. I don’t see any of the “well it’s just one incident” types telling us that we should, for example, ignore ethnicities in the great Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case. All we hear about is how this one case is evidence of white American racism and so on and it seems the black population in the US is plenty agitated.

    justicedemon: “How else can you interpret salainen 2072 asti?”

    The secret parts of the court document are blackened out. The rest is public information and available to anyone through the internet. Hakkarainen is simply linking to public information.

    The only people who have leaked the secret parts of the court document are the Muslim youths who set up a Facebook group to publish the name and home address of the victim and flooded the group calling her a slut and a whore. Of course, none of the people who criticize Hakkarainen were even the slightest bit interested in that.

    Me, I’d publish the names and faces of rapists regardless of ethnicity and put them in a permanent, public sex offender registry like in America.

    • Migrant Tales

      –Everybody believes that. I don’t see any of the “well it’s just one incident” types telling us that we should, for example, ignore ethnicities in the great Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case.

      I don’t think that the blacks are blaming ALL whites in the United States for what happened. In the same way, we shouldn’t victimize all immigrants for what happened. The Trayvon Martin incident bring up, however, a lot of good questions about racism in the United States and laws in Florida that allow people to shoot people in cold blood and almost get away with it.

  15. justicedemon

    Jaakko

    You appear to be unaware of the link that Hakkarainen posted. It comprised the full text of the District Court decision that had clearly been released contrary to section 1 of chapter 38 (or section 5 of chapter 40) of the Penal Code.

    The order of the court was obviously issued pursuant to section 10 of the Act on the Publicity of Trials in the General Courts (no. 370 of 2007):

    10 §
    Salassapitomääräys
    Tuomioistuin voi asianosaisen pyynnöstä tai erityisestä syystä muutoinkin päättää, että oikeudenkäyntiasiakirja on pidettävä tarpeellisin osin salassa, jos siihen sisältyy muussa laissa salassa pidettäviksi säädettyjä tietoja, joiden julkisiksi tuleminen todennäköisesti aiheuttaisi merkittävää haittaa tai vahinkoa niille eduille, joiden suojaamiseksi salassapitovelvollisuus on säädetty.

    By the way – it is specifically illegal to “spread ethnic agitation” in Finland.

  16. Mark

    Farang

    This comment fell short of our community standards and was deleted by a moderator. Replies may also be deleted.

    RL 11:10

    My guess is that this statement is breaking the law Farang, i.e. ethnic agitation. I wouldn’t be suprised to see this comment deleted. And mine too.

    This is clearly a racist comment.

    Do you know what I notice? That after this appeared in the news, suddenly the racists are being much more bold in their racist comments. Good, now we can see you better for what you are, not that you fooled us for a second, though sadly I’m sure that racists like you have fooled others with this ‘gentle hatred’ that you have been practicing.

    Still, you fascist muppets still haven’t got the hang of this PR lark, have you! You’ll always be one step backwards because you have to hide so much of your hatred and dislike. Cannot be easy!

  17. Farang

    Nice to see you squirming here 😀 Here you are telling that ethnic background is not relevant. But let’s see couple months back. Pizzeria shooting and somali jumping off the balcony. In these cases YOU PEOPLE here we stating very loud and clear that ethnicity DID matter.

    So is it going to be like this always: If white attacks black, then race is important issue. But when black attacks white then race is not relevant at all?

    Please comment, Enrique, JD, D4R, eyeopener, Mark!

    And Mark, are you also saying that the term “helsinkiläisnuoret” what media used was more truthful than saying “somalis”?

  18. Farang

    And I don’t have to hide my hate. I hate these rapists and I hate finnish justice system for letting them walk free. And yes, it matters that they were immigrants and I can explain why:

    While it would be as disgusting crime if the rapists would have been Finns, it undeniably adds a certain level when a person who Finns have given a safe place to live, in return does something like this. Do you disagree?

  19. justicedemon

    Farang

    It tells all necessary about you guys that you are more concerned about Hakkarainen publishing a link to the information which is already in internet, than you are about those two somali immigrants who raped Finnish girl.

    Hakkarainen posted a link to information that had been illegally distributed on the Internet, and that also jeopardised the health and wellbeing of a vulnerable child.

    How is this any different to posting a link to child pornography that is already in Internet? How can any conceivable general public interest outweigh a specific private interest of this degree of importance?

    Who said that the girl was Finnish? You are now doing precisely the hurtful thing that the court’s secrecy ruling was intended to prevent.

  20. Farang

    Justicedemon. Actually it was not mentioned in the leaked document that she was Finnish. The details of the victim was deleted from the document.

    It was the somalis and other immigrants in the facebook page who told that. In that facebook page the friends of the rapists were defending the rapists and badmouthing the victim, calling her whore and threatened her. That page is now removed, bet you didn’t see it. Look around, there are links to screen captures spreading around.

    And try to understand that it was public information that was spread. The only classified part was the identity of the victim and a witness. And those were deleted from the document so there was no classified or secret information.

  21. eihannu

    btw i got that sentence in my mail way before Hakkarainen published it, it was online in major forums way before Hakkarainen published it. What Hakkarainen did was to force papers to tell rapers werent finns.

  22. justicedemon

    Farang

    Nice to see you squirming here. Here you are telling that ethnic background is not relevant. But let’s see couple months back. Pizzeria shooting and somali jumping off the balcony. In these cases YOU PEOPLE here we stating very loud and clear that ethnicity DID matter.
    So is it going to be like this always: If white attacks black, then race is important issue. But when black attacks white then race is not relevant at all?

    So now you are suggesting that the alleged rape was racially motivated?

    And Mark, are you also saying that the term “helsinkiläisnuoret” what media used was more truthful than saying “somalis”?

    The chances are that they were born in Helsinki. They were certainly raised in Helsinki. You are bringing ethnic origin in as a factor here, but you are not explaining why. Would you consider it reasonable to identify such an offender as Jewish or Sámi?

  23. Jaakko Raipala

    “You appear to be unaware of the link that Hakkarainen posted. It comprised the full text of the District Court decision that had clearly been released contrary to section 1 of chapter 38 (or section 5 of chapter 40) of the Penal Code.”

    Once again, there is nothing illegal here. The court declared a few parts of the document secret (such as the victims name), blackened them out and then released the document with the secret parts blackened out. Hakkarainen is only linking to the document where the parts under order of secrecy are blackened out.

    The press keeps talking about this as if something “leaked” but there is no leak, it is a public document made available on the internet by the court itself. There is nothing illegal at all about spreading this partly censored document on the internet and complaining about it being unethical is silly as well since the partly censored document is already made freely available to everyone by the court itself.

    • Migrant Tales

      –It is not the job of politicians to raise lynch mobs.

      Spot on, Mark. Should we get a musician from our community to write an online version of “Strange fruit?”

  24. justicedemon

    Farang

    What part of salainen 2072 asti convinces you that the decision of the District Court was public information? It is absolutely clear that only the statement of judgement (tuomiolauselma) was public.

    So after a FB page has been removed, you take it on yourself to use MT as a forum for further disseminating its poisonous content? How do you think the victim of that content should view your intentions?

  25. Farang

    Justicedemon

    “So now you are suggesting that the alleged rape was racially motivated?”

    Alleged? You can just say rape without the word alleged, we already have a conviction from court for that.

    And we can’t rule out the possible racial motive here, like we couldn’t in the pizza case 😉

    “The chances are that they were born in Helsinki. They were certainly raised in Helsinki. You are bringing ethnic origin in as a factor here, but you are not explaining why. Would you consider it reasonable to identify such an offender as Jewish or Sámi?

    Offenders should always be identified with as much details as possible, so that people can identify them and avoid them.

  26. Jaakko Raipala

    “So now you are suggesting that the alleged rape was racially motivated?”

    So now it’s an “alleged” rape. If some perussuomalainen kept calling a gang rape of a Muslim girl by white men an “alleged” rape even after the rapists were sentenced, it would be a racist scandal to you.

  27. Jaakko Raipala

    “What part of salainen 2072 asti convinces you that the decision of the District Court was public information? It is absolutely clear that only the statement of judgement (tuomiolauselma) was public.”

    Once again, this is simply not true. YOU CAN EMAIL THE GOVERNMENT YOURSELF AND REQUEST THE DOCUMENT, they will mail it to you. It is completely public except for the blackened out parts.

  28. Farang

    Justicedemon:

    “So after a FB page has been removed, you take it on yourself to use MT as a forum for further disseminating its poisonous content?”

    Please remember who wrote that poisonous content: They were all immigrants in that group. So don’t blame any Finns for that content. Finns only let other people know about what was going on. Did you say about Eronen-case that it was not only OK but responsibility of media to let everyone know what Eronen have said. Somehow you now have different opinion when it’s immigrants who have done/said offensive things 🙂 Talking about hypocracy 😀

  29. justicedemon

    Jaakko

    We are clearly not referring to the same document. 1037 lines in ASCII format (which already excludes any blackening out).

    BY the way – do you know what is meant by lainvoimainen tuomio?

  30. Elven archer

    “So now you are suggesting that the alleged rape was racially motivated?”

    Funny stuff. Yes, we know what is “lainvoimainen tuomio”. Go and hide behind that. Oh wait, you did that already. And why not racially motivated? The lack of proof has not stopped you guys before, why should it now? 😀

  31. Jaakko Raipala

    “We are clearly not referring to the same document. 1037 lines in ASCII format (which already excludes any blackening out).”

    They are indeed not blackened out, they are simply left out. The name of the victim etc are not there and those are the things that were declared secret.

    And yes, that is the exact document that we horrible homma-forum fascists got from the bureaucrats by simply asking for it.

    I don’t know whether there is some obscure law Hakkarainen is breaking (there may well be some law against copying even public court records or something like that) but it doesn’t even interest me. It would actually be hilarious if he were breaking some law: Hakkarainen has the vast majority of the population behind him and if he actually were to go to jail for spreading the names of rapists, he would become the most celebrated popular hero of our time.

  32. Farang

    Mark

    “They were not all immigrants I’m that group.”

    All in the group who were bashing the girls and defending rapists, were immigrants. Meaning that everyone writing that “poisonous content”.

  33. eihannu

    mark he isnt raising lynch mobs like enrigue, he is telling truth what papers tried to conceal.
    And thats important so girls do have real picture of what can happen and real picture of who probably hurt her.

    • Mark

      I know of no other politician that does this kind of thing, Hannu. I wonder why that is? It is because they have standards and they respect their political office.

      And thats important so girls do have real picture of what can happen and real picture of who probably hurt her.

      That is a disgusting comment, Hannu!!!

  34. D4R

    Jaakko raipala: “Teuvo Hakkarainen has shown a quite deplorable degree of indifference to the important private interest that the court was seeking to protect.”

    Except, NO, the court has unusually declared the names public. They would have been hidden if the victim had requested it. The entire document is public; there is nothing illegal whatsoever in spreading any of the information.

    And indeed, the newspapers already spread enough information about the damn *victim* to identify her, while completely neglecting to mention any information about the rapists, which is why Finns are apeshit over this: it’s just the regular “let’s pile shit on the Finnish victim, let’s do everything we can do protect foreign rapists”.

    Hakkarainen is a clown but this is going to make him popular. If the press tries to turn this into a “scandal” of some sort, Hakkarainen is going to be the most popular politician in Finland.

    Yeah for sure he’s going to be popular for targeting and preding poor immigrants, do you think if the convict was a native Finn Hakkarainen would have bothered to publish information about the convict? no i doubt it, now Hakkarainen must publish every offenders infrmation and leak in the internet be it a white or african or asian otherwise it’s going to make him appear that he only targets certain people in this case Somalis and other Moslims.

  35. D4R

    eihannu: mark he isnt raising lynch mobs like enrigue, he is telling truth what papers tried to conceal.
    And thats important so girls do have real picture of what can happen and real picture of who probably hurt her.

    mark he isnt raising lynch mobs like enrigue, he is telling truth what papers tried to conceal.
    And thats important so girls do have real picture of what can happen and real picture of who probably hurt her.

    is Hakkarainen going to publish to the public every Finn rapist who’se going to rape in the future?

  36. D4R

    eihannu: And thats important so girls do have real picture of what can happen and real picture of who probably hurt her.

    So that the girls can run from every darkskin person that they face right, is that what’re you’re insinuating here?

  37. Jaakko Raipala

    D4R: “is Hakkarainen going to publish to the public every Finn rapist who’se going to rape in the future?”

    Iltalehti and Ilta-Sanomat already publish the names of Finnish rapists whenever they’re not made secret by the courts.

    The reason we spread the names of immigrant rapists is because they’re the ones the media tries to hide.

  38. D4R

    Jaakko Raipala: The reason we spread the names of immigrant rapists is because they’re the ones the media tries to hide.

    And why do you think is the reason they the media is trying to hide them imigrants>?

  39. Farang

    D4R, media tries to hide it because they don’t want to cause racist outbreaks. If media would write that “2 somalis raped Finnish underage girl”, big part of Finns would then think that all somalis are rapists and they would project their hate against all somalis.

  40. Farang

    I told you what the reason is for media to hide this kind of information. It doesn’t mean that I am in favour of hiding. My opinion is that all information should be given to people, but I understand their reasons not to give that.

  41. Farang

    No, I said big part of Finns, not ALL Finns.

    And secondly, if that big part are making such generalisations, it means they are idiots, not that they are racists.

  42. justicedemon

    Farang

    Here is what you said:

    media tries to hide it because they don’t want to cause racist outbreaks. If media would write that “2 somalis raped Finnish underage girl”, big part of Finns would then think that all somalis are rapists and they would project their hate against all somalis.

    You explicitly refer to racist outbreaks (this is a telling phrase – only something that is confined, concealed or controlled can “break out”), and you then say that a “big part of Finns” (suuri osa in your thinking, which I interpret as a segment that is “predominant” or at least “significant”) would think (i.e. decide, conclude) that “all Somalis” (not all school students, not all young males, etc., but all members of a population group defined by national or ethnic origin) are rapists and would “project their hate” against “all Somalis”.

    You just directly characterised Finns as predominantly or significantly racist. Very clearly. In doing so, you have broken ranks with the trolls in here who insist that there is no significant racism in the national host population.

    If it’s any comfort to you, the Finnish government officially characterised the population of Finland as prone to addictive behaviour in its argument for continuing State monopoly control of alcohol sales and gambling. That characterisation was successful, which is why EU antitrust law has not yet eliminated those monopolies.

    A similar argument can be made for controlling the propensity to racism that you just identified. Indeed this is one justification for having an Ombudsman for Minorities.

  43. Toni

    D4R: “And why do you think is the reason they the media is trying to hide them imigrants>?”

    To create an image that immigration causes no problems… First they tell we can’t discuss problems of immigration. Now they tell discussion about it is good but at the same time they try to hide the problems.

    Farang: “If media would write that “2 somalis raped Finnish underage girl”, big part of Finns would then think that all somalis are rapists and they would project their hate against all somalis.”

    Actually I think the fuzz would have bee much smaller in that case… It would have been just another rape case among others. Now they tried to cover it but clearly indicated the background of the victim.

    I think most are angry because of the cover up, not because Somalis gang-raped a Finnish girl.

    MT is trying hard to label some Finns as racists. He even thinks the police and other authorities are wrong and he is the expert. He doesn’t care…

  44. Farang

    Justicedemon, is it really so that you actually don’t understand what you read, or are you trying to twist issues on purpose?

    Why can’t you see two separate things
    1) What media thinks (people running the media)
    2) What Finnish people think

    If people running the media THINKS that people are racist and would cause racist outbreaks if immigration backgound would be revealed, it doesn’t mean that Finnish people actually ARE racists.

    I said that many people are idiots and they would GENERALISE easily that if certain representatives of some minority group does something, then ALL representatives of that group would be similar. That still doesn’t make them racists.

    Do you understand now? I can give you an easy example of your thinkin here, then maybe you understand:

    Person A hates Person B, because he thinks Person B beats his wife.
    There you can find the REASON why Person A hates Person B.
    But does it mean that Person B actually beats his wife?

    Now, if you can answer that, you should see where you did go wrong trying to “understand” what I wrote.

  45. Toni

    May I give another example:
    Person A says he will kill Person B because he thinks Person B is wrong kind of a human.
    There you can find the REASON why Person B aks Person A and his friends to stay away.
    But does it mean that Person B is a racist? MT thinks so. He sees it very clearly…

  46. eyeopener

    Hi guys!!

    Your opinion: What would you do when a Somali girl of 14 gets gang-raped by Finns!! Wannna bet!!

    You will have a beer or more and say: She asked for it!!

    Right??

  47. eyeopener

    Are you wanting to create a situation like this??

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17809268

    Deciding a rape case is “a court’s task”. Publishing the details (UK have different rules than Finland) will not help anybody.

    Using personal frustration to make yourself “an icon” doesnot help either. People who have just a little sense of human being knows that this kind of publicity will only hurt the victim.

    But for Hakkarainen cs. HIS FEELING OF DOING THE “RIGHT THING” is more important than the feelings of the victim.

    Disgusting!!

  48. Farang

    eyeopener:

    “Your opinion: What would you do when a Somali girl of 14 gets gang-raped by Finns!! Wannna bet!!

    You will have a beer or more and say: She asked for it!! ”

    You are sick!

    I would be as furious as I am now about those 2 somalis who raped Finnish girl.

  49. Toni

    >eyeopener: “Your opinion: What would you do when a Somali girl of 14 gets gang-raped by Finns!! Wannna bet!!”

    NO, do you think we are like neanderthals? You racist! 😉

    First, it is not likely to happen. No Somali girl has ever been raped by a Finn, or even European?
    We don’t like rapists, no matter if they are Finns or Somalis. In our prisons a child rapists is the lowest life form.

    eyeopener: “Publishing the details (UK have different rules than Finland) will not help anybody.”

    According to who?
    If a Finn rapes someone he will loose his friends.
    If a muslim rapes someone, all his friends will think he is a hero and they will attack the victime.
    If a celebrity rapes someone, it is no telling what happens. It depends on the case. Like with Mike Tyson…
    But the victime’s name should not be published…

    That is why we have to learn that when a muslim rapes, we can’t publish victime’s name. But when a Finn rapes no-one accuses the victime. We have to undertstand that muslims just act like that because they were raised to do so?
    Or why they do that, do you know?

  50. eyeopener

    Hi Toni

    You react like a Neanderthaler. That’s for sure:

    You knowledge about rape is impressive. Where do you get this knowledge. No Somali girl has ever been raped by a Finn, or even European. Evidence!!

    NOt only Mike Tyson (black guy he). What about this boy: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-17809268. What about victim’s name. His 19 year old “comrade in arms” will be prosecuted for his participation. Good example of justice.

    When a Finn rapes a woman or girl Finn parliamentaries won’t publish. Shame on them!!

    If a muslim rapes someone, all his friends will think he is a hero and they will attack the victime. You seem to know these guys. Any evidence?? Twitter??

    Toni the psychologist!! He who know how people are raised. Wherever in the world. Toni knows.

    Ylirautio is a better place for you, Toni.

  51. eyeopener

    Hallo Farang.

    You here also. I am sick you say??. Doctor!! I am as furious about you neglecting serious rape facts in Finland committed by Finns and not being exposed by Hakkarainen.

    Piss off you arse.

  52. Toni

    So, what happens when every rape case by a foreigner is silenced? We soon have rapes every day, and the rest of the world sees how bad rapists Finns are (even 99,9% of the rapists are foreigners).

    It is very hard to do business with civilized countries when we have so high rape statistics…
    Soon UN and Amnesty tells all Finns mus be exterminated because we rape so much… even we are innocent..

    That’s the future… is it? 😉

  53. eyeopener

    When there rapes committed by Finns in Finland it should be recognized and dealt with in court. Any rape case should be. But some people seem to think of themselves to be above the law.

    There is the mistake. Ther is nobody above the law according to the principles of the “rule of law”.

    Hakkarainen thinks of himself above the law. Let’s wait and see what happens.

    Your statistics (99.9% of the rapists are foreigners) are a bit out of order. But the BLABLABLA do not mind. But it’s wrong anyway Toni.

    Toni. Get yourself a big thumb and suck, suck and suck. That’s your future 🙂

  54. Toni

    eye: “Hakkarainen thinks of himself above the law. Let’s wait and see what happens.”

    You keep tellling this but why?
    Hakkarainen didn’t brake any law.

    eye: “But it’s wrong anyway Toni. ”

    I hope it is wrong. But the future will tell..

    Why don’t you answer my question?

  55. eyeopener

    HiToni.

    According to official statistics in 2009 there should have been some 940 rape cases. 99.9% of foreigners would mean 939 foreign perpetrators. In 1 case only a Finn. I think you are happy now, aren’t you.

    But no one published that CASE. Oh ja. That was forgotten by Mr. Hakkarainen. Yeah yeah. But also then he forgot the 939 cases.

    What the heck is making 1 case so important dear Toni.

    Well Toni. Maybe your statistics aren’t that precise. Nor is Mr. Hakkarainen’s focus.

    Maybe it is just a satire, sarcasm!! Nothing else then a joke, dear Toni.

    You know your guys. Just a joke 🙂

  56. eyeopener

    Toni.

    Even if I gave you an answer you would not accept it. Hakkarainen’s task is not to publish what is already public. He wants to be a champion. I can do this!! Look at me.

    Break a law?? No, he probably didn’t. But he broke a gentlemen agreement. That’s as much foul as breaking the law. He didn’t respect common rules among parties in communication.

    He went for personal success. He made it a “flop”. PS should expend him from membership.

    He makes himself a satire. But he is very familiar with that.

    And……….defending him you make yourself a jike as well!!

  57. justicedemon

    Farang

    I know exactly what you said, and I analysed it clearly above. Whether you said what you intended to say is another matter.

    I said that many people are idiots and they would GENERALISE easily that if certain representatives of some minority group does something, then ALL representatives of that group would be similar. That still doesn’t make them racists.

    Is it possible to be both a racist and and an idiot?

    In my experience these are not mutually exclusive.

    Pikemminkin päinvastoin.

  58. Toni

    eye: “What the heck is making 1 case so important dear Toni.”

    Like I have told many times: The reason was the way they published it in the news. They told the victimes background but not the rapists’. Why?

    eye: “Hakkarainen’s task is not to publish what is already public”

    You mean no-one can publish anything ever, if someone else has published it once somewhere? Media does that re-publishing all the time. Hakkarainen’s task is to bring stuff into open so we can discuss about stuff.

    eye: “He wants to be a champion”

    You just don’t like him… 😉

    eye: “But he broke a gentlemen agreement. ”

    What? Where? Others brake laws and that’s ok, but if someone brakes some agreement, made by totally different people, it is so bad that you loose your hair?

    You don’t want to tell us why do you think the name of the rapists were not to be published? Why??

    There was a gang rape again in Sweden, todays news, raped a 14yrs girl. There have been many gang rapes of a girl in Sweden. And the names were published. Now you go grazy? They publish names in Sweden but you don’t want that happen here? Why??
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/13/gang-rape-of-14yearold-re_n_808701.html

  59. Farang

    justicedemon:

    “Is it possible to be both a racist and and an idiot?

    In my experience these are not mutually exclusive.

    Pikemminkin päinvastoin.”

    Yes, it is possible to be both. But I never made that claim about big part of Finns being racists. That was only your idiotic twist.

    And what do you mean by that “pikemminkin päinvastoin”? In that context you are implying that it’s propable that if a person is idiot, he is also a racists? Is that what you mean? Otherwise that sentence doesn’t make sense. That would be quite a bit generalisation from you. You yourself are a living example that not all idiots are racists.

  60. eyeopener

    Hi Toni.

    Yes you are right. I don’t like Hakkarainen. So much of right. This is not STUFF. STUFF is something else. Maybe you blow too much.

    You seem to like www huffingtonpost.com. Chicago. US!! Impressive. 2 White guys 1 Coloured. And……. ?? Some relevance for the Finnish case?? What do you do with the Evans case in the UK?? No mention.

    Like I have said before. Blind eye!!

    Seems that you like to find rape news. Is that your task in t your friends-clique, Toni?? Where in Sweden was that?? Have a link?? There have been many gang rapes of a girl. How many?? Time period?? Names please??

    Shouting loud doesn’t make evidence Toni.

  61. Toni

    >eye: “You seem to like www huffingtonpost.com. Chicago. ”

    Not familiar with that. I don’t much follow what happens in US.

    >eye:”US!! Impressive. 2 White guys 1 Coloured. And……. ?? Some relevance for the Finnish case?? What do you do with the Evans case in the UK?? No mention”

    Evans?
    Should I know what happened in Pakistan or in Bolivia?

    >eye: “Like I have said before. Blind eye!!”

    Should I start reading about every rape case in the world?? Not interested…

    >eye: “Seems that you like to find rape news.”

    Seems like you like to read news about Hakkarainen. And whatever he does, you go crazy because you don’t like him.

    >eye: “There have been many gang rapes of a girl. How many?? Time period?? Names please?? ”

    I don’t follow them. Use google, you find many. Some call it rape wave.
    I googled and found few. I thought I find more…

  62. eyeopener

    Hi Toni.

    That’s what I thought. You just put some website to impress people. Not me!!

    No you probably will not be able to looking at your lousy threads here.

    Once more. Hakkarainen is a pain in the arse for many people because he has no brains. He should have a dinner with your friend Clapotis who like to eat seal brains for his vitamine shots. Hakkarainen could use some extra shots to become on level of his footies.

    Then Toni. Like we have already raised thid issue before. Go talk to your fellow monkeys in the HommaZoo.

    Banana-split for you!!

    Googlydoodley!!

  63. Toni

    eye: “That’s what I thought. You just put some website to impress people. Not me!! ”

    I can impress you if you ask something normal.

    eye: “Hakkarainen is a pain in the arse for many people because he has no brains.”

    Can you name some people who thinks Hakkarainen gives some pain?

    I know many people who feel pain from Katainen.
    I am starting to feel pain from you because you promised to give me pain… You feel Finns are monkeys. That’s what real muslims think.

    You don’t feel Finns are nice?
    What have I done to you?

  64. eyeopener

    Hi Toni.

    I am not going to ask you any “normal thing”. Reason?? You have nothing normal to tell me.

    80% of the Finnish population!!

    No, Toni I don’t think at all that Finns are monkeys. You and your “brothers-in-arms” are!!

    The fact that you write such a crap about foreigners you don’t know anything about. Calling foreigners “rapists” “collectors of social security” etc. is your big big big insult to me.

    Toni, I have insulted me!! That’s what you did. Ignorant!!

  65. Toni

    eye: “I am not going to ask you any “normal thing”. Reason?? You have nothing normal to tell me.”

    It is difficult to communicate with you if you don’t want a normal communication with me.

    eye: “No, Toni I don’t think at all that Finns are monkeys. You and your “brothers-in-arms” are!! ”

    So you feel some Finns are monkeys. That is racism.
    How many monkeys you know here? Any names to give?

    eye: “Calling foreigners “rapists””

    No, I did not.

    eye: “collectors of social security” etc. is your big big big insult to me. ”

    No, I did not. I just told that we hope that small part of foreigners, who come here just to collect social security AND do crimes, are not welcomed.

    But you just don’t want to understand me…

    eye: “Toni, I have insulted me!! That’s what you did. Ignorant!”

    I agree. You have insulted you. Like Mark said “drunken words…”

  66. eyeopener

    Toni? Still alive. Whooaah!!

    Let’s have alook what you have to say.

    Ok the first is your normal blablabla.

    You are a monkey. Correct!! That’s what I say and you “brothers-in arms” join the same pack in the HommaZoo. Racism?? not even close to racism Wrong again this is about specism!! You guys are just a species. Never heard off?? Google a bit!!

    Unfortunatley, Toni you did. Not only in this thread but also in other ones. Alzheimer?? Problem of some species.

    You seem to be proud of your insults. “drunken words”. That really pictures you as an ignorant, low-level and simple species.

    Sleep with your Ylirautio friends.

    Simple guy

  67. Toni

    If you feel (some) Finns are monkeys you just proved my point: Like you, many foreigners seem to be arrogant and feel they are better than Finns. We are not monkeys but if you see us as monkeys, you are a racist and not welcomed here. If you don’t like diversity and you don’t want to accept all the Finns you are free to leave… Finland is the most civilized country and has less racism, less problems and is the most safe place for a foreigner to live. Even for arrogant people like you. But I hope we don’t get too many arrogant foreigners here.

    I can’t have civilized converstation with you if you see me as a monkey. You are like first European people in Africa. You see monkeys everywhere… soon you start shooting all monkeys you see because you don’t like them.

    • Migrant Tales

      –Like you, many foreigners seem to be arrogant and feel they are better than Finns.

      I don’t know where you get that type of conclusion but similarly immigrants could say the same thing about Finns.

      However, this raises an interesting point. Is this then the source of anger of some anti-immigration critics?

  68. Toni

    MT: “I don’t know where you get that type of conclusion but similarly immigrants could say the same thing about Finns.”

    I’m sure they are saying, not just “could”. And I am sure they are also right.

    MT: “However, this raises an interesting point. Is this then the source of anger of some anti-immigration critics?”

    That’s what I have been trying to explane…
    Who was arrogent first? The one who offered help and gave money and home for free? Or the one who came here to enjoy freedom and our money, but now feels bad when we are saying some of these foreigners, who are enjoying our hospitality, are not behaving so nice…

  69. Farang

    What do you think of this article: http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2012042515496592_uu.shtml

    One alarming indication is that in many gang rape cases in Finland and Sweden, the muslims who have done these gang rapes are proud of what they did. So proud that they grag about it to their friends. Like these 2 somalis who raped Finnish girl, they were caught because they bragged with the issue. Same in Sweden, two gang rapes of underage girl, the rapists even videoed the rape and spead it.

    So, what does this tell us? Why do these muslim rapists feel that what they you is something to brag about. This clearly tells us the cultural differences. This is very dangerous.

  70. eyeopener

    Hi Farang.

    The same sources again. You hold these papers for the truth don’t you??

    It does tell me that the perpetrators are wrong. However, your language is wrong too. The Muslims (how do you know they are Muslim??) who have done these gang rapes. How many?? Period of time. How many Catholic or Protestant Swedes and Finns have been convicted in the same time?

    That is a better way of dealing with “the facts”. You are making the wrong points over and over again.

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