Police unlikely to pin hate crime on the death of a Somali in Oulu, Finland

by , under All categories, Enrique

By Enrique Tessieri

The police announced Wednesday that the eighteen-year-old Somali national who died in hospital Tuesday slipped from the sixth floor while trying to escape three people who barged into his home Monday night, according to tabloid Iltalehti. Migrant Tales spoke with Seppo Leinonen of the Oulu police, who said it was unlikely that the death of the young man was a hate crime. 

The police will announce at noon Thursday whether they will imprison the three suspects.

One of the three persons, a woman, knew the victim. She apparently had a disagreement with the man and told her brother about it, who then went with a metal pipe to resolve the matter, reports Ilalehti. Since the victim did not open door, the brother kicked a whole in the door and opened it from the inside.

Both the brother and sister were under the influence of alcohol.

The victim tried to escape but fell to his death from the sixth floor.

JusticeDemon makes a good point on one of his threads by asking if what happened was a “Finnish honor crime?” Below are a list of sad examples of Finnish men mending their broken family with a shotgun, service revolver or knife:

November 2011, Tyrnävä
October 2011, Varkaus
April 2011, Ikaalinen
February 2010, Lappeenranta (fortunately nobody was killed)
December 2008, Lohja (that was a retired police officer)
November 2008, Hattula
October 2008, Helsinki
October 2008, Oulu
June 2008, Ylitornio
March 2008, Pori

Migrant Tales had got in touch with residents and acquaintances of the victim in Oulu. While they claimed the three entered that had apartment the victim’s home with a chainsaw, the police could not confirm this.

  1. Allan

    Enrique, it really must embitter you so much you have to grab straws to denigrate Finnish people and Finnish police.

    Nothing your write there about “Finnish men” and their spousal troubles has to do with “defending the honor of your sister”.

    Maybe you could also confirm that the people you got in touch were feeding you heresay horse manure, and you believed it.

    One thing though you could actually do some investigative journalism on, I am still quite puzzled about this “two men and a girl” involved in two “immigrants dropping from heights” cases involving “disrespect of the lady” in Oulu. They are just slightly too coincidential.

    • Enrique

      Allan, what I debate and how I debate it is my business not yours. I do it with my name. What about you? Who are you, Allan?

      A friendly suggestion: If you cannot take the heat and take everything personally, maybe you should think about going somewhere else. Hommaforum, maybe?

  2. Allan

    You don’t “debate” Enrique – debating requires two facts. You invent your facts. Newspapermen inventing facts face a lot of discrimination after being caught pants down. Must be racism.

  3. Allan

    Why don’t you go present your “facts” on hommaforum, Enrique? Or do you take it personally your imagination is questioned?

  4. eh

    You’ll note that this is labeled as a hate crime even though the motives are unknown.

    Tags from the previous post:

    Tagged: Finland, hate crime, Racism, racism hate

    A white on black crime is considered a hate crime by default. For black on white crime a much stricter criteria is applied. Even if whites are being exclusively targeted or racial language is used, the motive is treated as something much more abstract than in white on black crime. Here is an example from Portand, Oregon:

    So the “slurs were used as a verbal punch” and don’t really indicate anything as it is a black on white crime. But if you flip the races = hate crime. With the 3 men in Oulu, Enrique has no idea of motive or language but it is automatically a hate crime until proven otherwise. In the US, there is more black on white violent crime than white on black violent crime so we’d expect that hate crime would also be majority black on white but it is the opposite. Here is the FBI hate crime statistics:

    In 2010, the races of the 6,008 known hate crime offenders were as follows:

    58.6 percent were white.
    18.4 percent were black.

    Among the single-bias hate crime incidents in 2010, there were 3,949 victims of racially motivated hate crime. A closer examination of these victim data showed that:

    70.0 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-black bias.
    17.7 percent were victims of an anti-white bias.

    The media will always emphasize the race for a white criminal and de-emphasize race for a non-white criminal. This is especially true if the victim is of another race. Swedish newspapers will even digitally whiten, that is Caucasianize, photos of criminals. Likewise stories with a white defendant, if there is a “racist” angle, will be heavily promoted and will receive enormous media attention, where as stories that put multiculturalism is a bad light will receive very brief and very local coverage. A gang of whites will be presented a “nazis”, a gang of non-whites will be presented as a “youths”.

  5. joku

    I’m new here, and just have to wonder: CLEARLY there has been a horrible tragedy, a young man has died. No question about that! As far as I have seen, nobody really knows yet what the true motive(s) of the people who barged into his home were.

    Since we (you) don’t know the details yet,WHY DO YOU SAY THIS WAS A RACIST CRIME JUST BECAUSE THE YOUNG MAN WAS A SOMALI?

    I find it sad you think so little of this people you would immediately expect others to have hated him just because of his nationality.

    I (a Finn) know several Somali people in person and find them beautiful people with nice personalities. (I’m not claiming there could not be any exceptions, as that would be stereotypical labeling, but the people I know are very very nice and hard-working too.)

    Please, do not utilise the horrible destiny this young man had to serve your own ends, before you know what really happened. Prejudice is bad – AND THIS GOES BOTH WAYS.

    • Enrique

      joku, you have to be joking. Are you for real?

      I think your problem as well as those who want to deny that there is a problem is that since you label groups freely you think people will do the same about Finns. In your nationalism and inability to debate an issue in a civil manner, you resort to chicanery (like joku’s thread) or get all personal (like Allen’s many threads). On this blog we are ready for anything since we have read over 18,000 threads. We know all the tricks.

  6. Mark

    eh

    Interesting. The three black women were not charged with a hate crime (though they were being charged with assault) because in Oregon state law, it requires that the racial slur is proven to be a basis for the assault. We don’t know the basis for the assault in this instance.

    However, let’s look a little closer at this law in Oregon. It would seem to make the conviction of a hate crimes more difficult, I agree, and in this case in which three blacks have attacked a white person and used racial slurs, it would appear the law is working against whites.

    However, a more accurate picture is gained when you realise that blacks in Oregon make up only 1.8% of the population, with over 80% being non-Hispanic whites. Why would lawmakers in an overwhelmingly white state pass legislation that makes it difficult to convict for a hate crime against whites? Perhaps because they are not very common!

    In fact, statistics for actual registered hate crimes in Oregon show that in terms hate crime victims, 25% are black, while making up less than 2% of the population. Puts a slightly different picture on things, doesn’t it?

    And, for the record, bigotry should be condemned whoever is doing it.

    Another point. After watching the video, the remarks that included the ‘slurs were used as a verbal punch’ were not the arguments of defenders or prosecutors, but a group of law students being asked to try to decide if it was a hate crime. The response mentioned was given by a white male, just for clarity.

    The media will always emphasize the race for a white criminal and de-emphasize race for a non-white criminal.

    Tell a big enough lie and repeat it often enough and people will believe. Who was it again that said that? Oh, yes, the Nazi’s minister for propaganda, Joseph Goebbels.

  7. Mark

    Joku

    Perhaps you should read ALL the comments being made about this story. You will find, I’m sure, that those that support Migrant Tales have been challenging those complaining about the ‘hate crime’ label being added to the post, or even suggested as a possibility, because they have been trying to label this Somali a drug addict, an alcoholic and a criminal.

    It seems a bit rich then that you jump on their bandwagon and accuse us of dragging his name through the mud.

    There is a strong possibility that a racial element was involved here. It’s a fair question to ask how would Finnish men feel if their sister (assuming they had one) had been ‘disrespected’ by a man, and whether their reaction would be any more intense, aggressive, or violent if they discovered he was an immigrant, black and Muslim?

    I’m not assuming anything at the moment, but I, for one, can already imagine several Finns that I have known who would have a more volatile reaction. You see Joku, being a white Brit, Finns often make the mistake of thinking that i would naturally be sympathetic to hearing the racist views about black immigrants in Finland. Funny that, in it!

  8. Allan

    “because they have been trying to label this Somali a drug addict, an alcoholic and a criminal. ”

    Its just as much a “strong possibility” as you put it. Just as a “strong possibility” of the police being racist, Finns being racist and neo-nazis being involved. Just like in the pizzakebab arson in Tampere?

  9. Allan

    No Mark, I wouldn’t be fooled by you. You belong to the same category of bleeding heart liberals with a lot of Finns actually. And I despise you as much as any other green commie trying to destroy the country.

    • Enrique

      –And I despise you as much as any other green commie trying to destroy the country.

      Allan, you are slowly coming out of your closet. Suomen Kansalinen Vastarinta? Hmm…

  10. Allan

    Instead of being happy it was not a racist hate crime after all, why so disappointed? Maybe Alibi will have pictures of the men having a bald head.

    • Enrique

      Allan, this sentence, “I despise you as much as any other green commie trying to destroy the country,” reveals so many things about who you are. I told you that reading over 18,100 threads has taught me a few things about what kind of adjectives certain far-right groups use. “Green commie?” That has got to be one of the funniest I have ever heard and, yes, people who like the SKV and fascism like using such labels.

  11. eh

    the remarks that included the ‘slurs were used as a verbal punch’ were not the arguments of defenders or prosecutors, but a group of law students being asked to try to decide if it was a hate crime.

    It is really a decision if all the students know a pre-determined answer? Was there another side to present, if so you wouldn’t know it from the clip? The media was “educating” the public on why this isn’t a hate crime in a way that would be acceptable to most of society. If applied consistently it seems reasonable but again if you flip the race this even-handedness evaporates immediately. A more honest explanation would be that the double standards are rationalized as a sort of remedial balance or handicap against white privilege and historical guilt. This more honest explanation would not be as warmly received by the public.

    The response mentioned was given by a white male, just for clarity.

    Oh, well in that case I take it all back 🙄

    Oh, yes, the Nazi’s minister for propaganda, Joseph Goebbels.

    Nice try eh or should I say Goebbels 😯

  12. Mark

    eh

    Do I have to do all your homework for you, even on the sources that you link to and comment on?

    It is really a decision if all the students know a pre-determined answer? Was there another side to present, if so you wouldn’t know it from the clip?

    Transcript 2:47: “On Talk Radio with Lars Larson, caller – “This is a typical example of what I call reverse justice.” … Lars – she told us, that these girls were shouting ‘white girl’ at her, white girl’s got an attitude’. people were outraged at what happened and what was said to Carly Bucklin.”

    A black student, not the one you mentioned that they were ‘little kids being bratty kids’. That sounds like an raceless alternative often mentioned on here. And EH, the students were debating. No-one was giving a pre-determined answer. Another student pointed out that the full YouTube video showed the white girl right up in the face of one of the black girls. The students were exploring all different angles to the confrontation.

    The media was “educating” the public on why this isn’t a hate crime in a way that would be acceptable to most of society.

    Eh, they explored exactly that, what was acceptable, pointing out that many people did not think it was acceptable. However, the students were not discussing what was acceptable, they were discussing what was the law in Oregon on hate crime, a law I’ve already pointed out to you is more likely to disadvantage black people who are disproportionately, i.e. 14 times more likely to experience a hate crime relative to their population size.

    eh, why do you have to trawl to the other side of the world to find a case to illustrate this so-called reverse racism? Because in Finland, such racial slurs in the middle of an assault would be grounds for an increased charge of ‘aggravated’ assault.

  13. Mark

    Allan

    No Mark, I wouldn’t be fooled by you. You belong to the same category of bleeding heart liberals with a lot of Finns actually. And I despise you as much as any other green commie trying to destroy the country.

    Fooled into thinking that just cos I’m from the UK and working class that I’m a racist? 🙂 Yeah, right.

    Funny that you put me in with a lot of Finns. I also feel that the majority of Finns are have a perfectly good understanding of human rights, of what racism is and the important of tolerance, respect and proper dialogue in a modern multiethnic society. As for being a green commie….hahahahahaha! Yeah, right! Whatever…..

  14. eh

    Transcript 2:47: “On Talk Radio with Lars Larson, caller – “This is a typical example of what I call reverse justice.” … Lars – she told us, that these girls were shouting ‘white girl’ at her, white girl’s got an attitude’. people were outraged at what happened and what was said to Carly Bucklin.”

    Well it wasn’t like they were presenting an opposing argument as to say that there is a lot of careless chatter going around and were here to set you straight, so lets say there is a blue guy and a green guy, etc, etc.

    • Enrique

      eh, let’s not lose focus and go to different places in the world to figure out what happened took place right under our noses.

      What I suspect is that many bloggers who somehow feel threatened by criticism or worse, believe that “non-Finns” have no right to question anything in this country, are the ones purposefully losing focus on the real issue. Let’s stay focused: a drunk man who happened to be a Finn barged into a home of an immigrant with a steel pipe. The situation caused the Somali to flee and fall off the sixth floor of his apartment to his death. Any easier than that?

      You make the conclusions you wish but we have here are unlawful entry, threatening a man with a weapon and on top of it being inebriated. Anything wrong here? Or shall we discuss the weather in Bamako?

  15. Hannu

    So enrique you have said this was racism and even in first news (in 30mins from your blog) police said “Mikään ei viittaa rasismiin, mutta emme ole voineet sitä sulkea poiskaan”
    Also you claimed that police were hiding victim but in that same news there was clearly that attackers were finns and victim was somali.
    Also you lied, or you “informant” lied, about chainsaw.
    Also i would like you and justicedemon read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing
    Its not about honour when your kin is assaulted and you protect him/her or you see no hope and decide to take your family with you.

    • Enrique

      Hannu, you are another person like eh who is losing focus on what happened. Read my thread to eh.

  16. Mark

    eh

    Do your homework, sunshine!

    ‘what I call reverse justice’, i.e. black people getting away with racism.
    ‘Lars Larson – “people were outraged”‘, i.e. the lack of a hate crime charge provoked disbelief and rebuke.
    ‘the little kids were being bratty kids’, an alternative reading to the ‘racial’ reading of the assault.

    These are opposing arguments to the idea that it wasn’t a hate crime. How much opposition do you want to have?

    The point of the latter part of the media was to get to the bottom of why according to the legal system it was not considered a hate crime.

    Whether that is a sensible approach or not is another matter. It’s understandable up to a point that they try to separate a crime motivated by racial hatred and one where racial hatred happens to get expressed in the middle of the crime. Seems reasonable, though like any legal system, it might be open to abuse.

    As it is, the ‘hate crime’ element appears to have been simply ‘white girls got an attitude’, at which point, the white girl has her nose in the face of the black girl. Racist? Probably. But enough to generate this outrage in Oregon? Hmmm…Would these whites protest so much if it was a black girl being attacked by whites? Maybe not.

    Many racist whites are fed up being called racist and being asked to change their ways. One of their stalling tactics is to try the ‘but they are racist too’, as if that makes it okay.

    Also, I think it’s the job of a media broadcaster to clarify the law on hate crime if it appears that half the populace doesn’t understand it. The fact that most hate crime in Oregon is against blacks, it just goes to show how difficult it must be for them to get a conviction on those grounds when the requirements are quite tight. Funny that the white folks only figured this problem out when it was one of their own getting beat up! It’s not right, of course, but it does show the hypocrisy of race relations in parts of America.

  17. Mark

    Its not about honour when your kin is assaulted and you protect him/her or you see no hope and decide to take your family with you.

    The man (or men) apparently walked across the hall with his sister and a steel bar and broke into the Somali’s flat – how was that protecting his sister?

  18. Mark

    Hannu

    What if I was trying to date your sister and told her that I liked her but that her drunken brother was a racist alcoholic and she came to you and told you? What would you do?

    Writing fiction is easy, Hannu. No medals for that.

    “So enrique you have said this was racism and even in first news (in 30mins from your blog) police said “Mikään ei viittaa rasismiin, mutta emme ole voineet sitä sulkea poiskaan”

    Where has he said it was racism? In the first post he said that the cause of death was still unresolved. He quoted a nearby resident and then quoted the police as saying they didn’t have enough information to confirm what had happened.

    It was tagged under racism because there of course would be a suspicion that it’s a racist crime. That doesn’t mean that Enrique claimed it WAS racism. Hannu, why are you so eager to discredit Enrique? Is it because he does a good job of highlighting the racism in Finland? Must be. I cannot see why else you would be offended.

  19. justicedemon

    Hannu

    From your own reference:

    Honor killings are acts of vengeance, usually death, committed by male family members against female family members, who are held to have brought dishonor upon the family. A woman can be targeted by (individuals within) her family for a variety of reasons, including: … seeking a divorce—even from an abusive husband—or (allegedly) committing adultery.

    This is precisely the pattern for dozens of family homicides in Finland.

    Bear in mind that honour is simply another word for social pressure. The Finnish males who commit these crimes do so because they cannot face the (presumed) judgement of their acquaintances and families or deal with their own feelings of emasculation. This, in turn, is a socially-generated sense of failure based on a warped sense of manhood.

  20. Depressed and Worried immigrant

    What happen is that racist finns barged in to this deceased somali young man who happened to be at his home and caused his death plain and simple all the excuses you’ll finns giving is senseless. if you read the police report it doesnt even make anysense, why would police believe a drunkards instead investigating what really happened? there are obviouse eye witnesses who saw them with a chainsaw?. the whole story sounds a made up but the police isn’t interested. ps. Enrique thanx for borrowing my comment i liked it.

  21. Allan

    “there are obviouse eye witnesses who saw them with a chainsaw?”
    Yeah, the eyewitness also said that the bloke had a flying carpet.

    Problem is, no chainsaw, no chainsaw marks or carpet was found. Must have been a magician involved as well, and an invisible one as no eyewitness saw him. How cool is that?

    • Enrique

      Allan, some respect for the dead would give a better image of Finns. Don’t throw mud on Finland with your example. The brother of the victim has found our blog.

  22. Hannu

    Justicedemon you dont really understand or are you playing dumb?
    “In her family” doesnt mean husband, its her father/brothers//cousins/sisters/uncles/aunts etc.
    Honor crime is by definition that your own close relatives/community attack you because you “dishonor” them and by killing they get that honour back, you cant get any honour from normal community in finland with that, quite opposite.

    Here is current good example of honour crime http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/29/canada-honor-killing-shafia-family-guilty_n_1240268.html

    “It is difficult to conceive of a more heinous, more despicable, more honorless crime,” Maranger said. “The apparent reason behind these cold-blooded, shameful murders was that the four completely innocent victims offended your completely twisted concept of honor … that has absolutely no place in any civilized society.”

  23. Hannu

    Enrique you are calling respect when you are lying about what happened and yelling its hate crime? You are calling respect when you use his death for your own propaganda?

    • Enrique

      Hannu, you should have learned by now that you cannot go around calling people things like lier, especially when what you claim has its roots in your imagination.

  24. Mary Mekko

    The brother of the victim has found the blog? Is the victim the woman or the dead Somali? Since we don’t know exactly who did what to whom or why, then how do we know who was really the victim or victims? The fellow who “slipped off the roof” is a victim, but how did he inspire such anger and hatred, what had he done and to what victim amongst those three?

    I feel sorry for the brother. Perhaps he had no idea what the dead victim was up to, but in any case, he was not his brother’s keeper.

    If this one story can fill many papers in Finland, you should all read http://www.sfgate.com, the San Francisco newspaper online. It’s filled with murder and mayhem, usually black-on-black violence and killings in Oakland, SF and Richmond. Do different “shades of black” count as racism, i.e. if the victim is very very very dark-skinned, and the killer is light-shaded, is that racism, I wonder? If one light-skinned calls another darker-skinned a “nigger”, is that racism?

    This gets awfully complicated, I can tell you that. So many racial mixtures in the USA are making the “racial hate crime” category absurd. By definition, isn’t a crime full of hate?

    Enrique, let’s hope more people around the globe find your blog here and add their two cents. You are trivializing serious issues and making mountains out of molehills. I just had two Finns on my tourbus who said that it’s normal and acceptable to be racially and sexually harassed on Helsinki public transport if one is a young white Finnish female. The “girls” just accept it. How do you know that they hate it and are coming to the point of wanting to kill? WHat if that young woman of the three in Oulu had had just too much racial harassment and got her brothers to help put a stop to it, since the PC-controlled police couldn’t intervene without being called racists?

    You never know! I think white women know how to seek revenge if they need to – and the police won’t stop the racial black-on-white hate crimes officially and severely in the courts.

  25. depressed n Worried immigrant

    I’m the brother of the victim not literally but im a somali. My point is you guys should have a respect for this young guy who died tragically it makes no sense Allan you and the the other finns to come here and give al excuses to this young mans death ruling out if racism involved in this situation what are you guys trying to hide?? you guys need to stop attacking enrique the guy is giving a voice to the minority there is no one else giving voice to us you’re authority is not interested if a Somali gets murdered by finn.

  26. Mark

    Depresssed n worried immigrant

    I hope you will see that Allan (and others like him) are a minority in Finland, albeit a very vocal one with views that are quite dispicable and hardly worthy of the money spent on educating the little runt.

    In this case, it is far too early to decide whether the authorities have taken the case seriously or not. No doubt there will be some kind of charge and court case and then one hopes that more of the story comes out. I am concerned that the main witness against the defendents is likely to have been the victim, who’s voice will not be heard. Maybe there were other witnesses. Let’s hope so, as I would be very uncomfortable to think that this case came down to the word of those that broke into his flat and that of a dead man who can no longer speak in his own defence.

  27. Mark

    Mary Mekko

    Is the victim the woman or the dead Somali? Since we don’t know exactly who did what to whom or why, then how do we know who was really the victim or victims? The fellow who “slipped off the roof” is a victim, but how did he inspire such anger and hatred, what had he done and to what victim amongst those three?

    Your insinuations and innuendo are despicable.

    I feel sorry for the brother. Perhaps he had no idea what the dead victim was up to, but in any case, he was not his brother’s keeper.

    Fucking hell, with friends like you, who needs enemies!!!!!

    People take offence for many reasons, and some very little reason at all. He may have said something to her about her brother, for all we know. If there was a serious grievance of the kind you imply, then she should have called the police, not gathered a lynch mob. You are straight out of the twisted mould of the KKK, MaryMekko, justifying a lynching. Talking of lynchings, if a rope had been put around his head, would you have said he slipped off the chair and into the noose? Fucking unbelievabe, you are. People like you make my blood boil, with your sanctimonious shit!.

  28. Mary Mekko

    We had a case in San Francisco where a “white” (European) woman could not take the harassment anymore, back in the 1980’s, shoved a black man hard against a wall, apparently he hit his head and died right there on the sidewalk. Many witnesses testified to the ongoing nasty hate crimes he commited against this woman and many others everyday, and most were relieved that he had been “removed from the community” even if it took just one angry push of revenge by one of his victims. She was not given murder or manslaughter as a charge since she was considered a woman who was defending herself.

    I say, before we consider that a manis innocent, yet is being attacked by three angry people, why not find out what lies behind it, and bring those witnesses forth? Could it be that this poor dead fellow was not quite SO innocent? This was not done at RANDOM! The white women here were attacked verbally and physically at RANDOM, whereas the revenge of pushing the man back against a wall was self-defense.

    So think about that, Mark and Enrique. People get angry when they’re mistreated, and not all will accept it with “christian tolerance”, but get pushed to the point of wanting revenge. Find out what the “innocent” Jirde was doing before you assume all is so well in that family. Can the brother possibly come forward and tell what his brother was doing to incite anger?

    Or does he only care now when he’s dead?

  29. justicedemon

    Mary

    Even by your warped standards, this will never wash as self-defence. Not when the self-defenders had to break down a door in order to defend themselves from this man who was running away from them.

    Is homicide for revenge legal in San Francisco?

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