Older woman assaulted at Myllypuro metro station in Helsinki

by , under Enrique

By Enrique Tessieri

An older woman was attacked on Wednesday at Helsinki’s Myllypuro metro station, according to Metro’s April 26th edition.While the story does not state the ethnic background of the woman, Migrant Tales understands that the victim may be a Somali.

The woman, who suffered injuries to the face, was taken to hospital by ambulance.

The attacker, believed to be a young male, is still at large.

The police are expecting to determine the man’s identity by today.

  1. D4R

    I guess we have to thank Räsänen, Timo Soini, Jussi Halla Aho for this poor Somali womans assault, hope they feel especial about themselves now..

  2. Sasu

    I guess we have to thank Räsänen, Timo Soini, Jussi Halla Aho for this poor Somali womans assault, hope they feel especial about themselves now.. D4R

    Tuskimpa on syytä syyttää perussuomalaisia tästä jollei löydy mitään suoraa yhteystä. Onni on siinä, että tämä oli yksittäisen ihmisen tekemä. Pitää toivoo että poliisi ei syyllisty tälläiseen. Se olisi jo painajainen, jos Helsingin poliisi voima olisi yhtä rasistinen kuin Lontoon.

  3. Toni

    D4R: “I guess we have to thank Räsänen, Timo Soini, Jussi Halla Aho for this poor Somali womans assault, hope they feel especial about themselves now..”

    I think we can thank MT too.

  4. Toni

    If she was a Muslim, she may have been beaten by those who wanted to punish her walking alone outside.

    “Poliisi ei kerro pahoinpitelijän tuntomerkkejä julkisuuteen” – they don’t do that when they are looking for a foreigner?

    Sad that anyone would do that to an old(er) woman.

  5. eyeopener

    Toni.

    Got the message wrong again. As usual. MT has never ever defended any person who has been CONVICTED for rape. But making SUSPECTED perpetrators criminals is your piece of cake, isn’t it Toni??

    MT challenges all those guys who make from a mosquito and elephant. Basically by distorting the statistics from the police and Ministry by pulling out one section and turning a “blind eye” to the other existing facts. I seriously stress you to read the HS article on the interpretation of rape statistics.

    Thanks for createing the atmosphere that allow Finns to think that they can assault foreigners without consequence. I hope that Internal Minister Råsånen means this while demanding higher punishments. Especially when xenophobic or foreign-oriented.

    Let’s turn tables Toni. Let’s see how Finnish society reacts to this aggrevation and insult. MT will keep a close eye on the police procedures.

  6. Toni

    eye: “Got the message wrong again. As usual. MT has never ever defended any person who has been CONVICTED for rape.”

    Was se also raped?

    eye: “But making SUSPECTED perpetrators criminals is your piece of cake, isn’t it Toni??”

    Who did I “make” criminal now?

    I din’t much understand you msg this time. Me monkey, you too smart.

  7. Farang

    HS’s agenda is to promote multiculturalism and immigration, so we can’t expect any truth from any article that is published in HS about multiculture or immigration.

    Where did you make that assumption that the old woman was a Somali?

    And that talk about atmosphere where Finns think that they can assault immigrants is total bullshit. Why do you generalise again? You are worst of the worst racist. I can bet that there is not a single Finn who thinks it’s ok to assault immigrants based on the “atmosphere”. Those who assault anyone, are criminals who should be put in jail. But only a total idiot would believe that any person would start to think it’s ok to assault someone based on “atmosphere”.

    • Mark

      Farang

      HS’s agenda is to promote multiculturalism and immigration, so we can’t expect any truth from any article that is published in HS about multiculture or immigration.

      And reporting the views of Finnish police or rape experts adds no credibility whatsover I suppose. Funny how you dismiss the views of Finland’s largest selling newspaper. Sounds like you have no respect whatsoever for the majority view.

      YOu are not even making half an effort to understand what is being said to you or what was written in that article I linked to.

      I can bet that there is not a single Finn who thinks it’s ok to assault immigrants based on the “atmosphere”.

      Well, you might be right about that. It’s not the ‘atmosphere’, it’s the racist attitudes. But hey, you get to say something that sounds like no Finns are racist, so that’s your deed for the day done!

      But only a total idiot would believe that any person would start to think it’s ok to assault someone based on “atmosphere”.

      All that huff and puff to knock down a straw man. You must be exhausted!

  8. BlandaUpp

    Farang

    Have you taken your medicine today? The story is published in Metro, not HS.

    Toni

    “If she was a Muslim, she may have been beaten by those who wanted to punish her walking alone outside.”

    I have no words for your bigotry.

  9. Farang

    Enrique, I think you fell into your own shit now 😀 Still waiting for verification, but seems that the person who assaulted that woman was an immigrant. And yet you already blamed Finns 🙂 You are a disgrace to everyone.

    • Mark

      Farang

      And yet you already blamed Finns 🙂

      Nowhere in the article was it stated that a Finn was responsible. Get your facts right, for a change.

  10. Toni

    BU: ““If she was a Muslim, she may have been beaten by those who wanted to punish her walking alone outside.””

    So you mean I am not allowed to speculate even D4R speculated she was a Somali.
    I just continued his/her speculation…

  11. Toni

    Farang: “but seems that the person who assaulted that woman was an immigrant. And yet you already blamed Finns You are a disgrace to everyone.”

    I would guess changes are 50/50. If she (woman) was a Somali…

  12. Farang

    BlandaUpp, are you stupid? My comment about HS was a response to this one by eyeopener: “I seriously stress you to read the HS article on the interpretation of rape statistics.”

  13. Mark

    You know Farang, Enrique reports on these thing because they are of interest to the immigrant community. If the perpetrator turns out to be an immigrant, that is of interest to us also. You seem to assume that everything here revolves around racism. It doesn’t.

  14. Toni

    Mark: “Nowhere in the article was it stated that a Finn was responsible. Get your facts right, for a change.”

    But you and MT here write about Finns and what they have done… so putting this article here – and speculating she was a Somali – you let everyone understand that a Finn was the attacker.

    Mark: “You seem to assume that everything here revolves around racism. It doesn’t”

    I mentioned how white woman attacked Tiger Woods and you commented, that I was again blaming a black man like a big racist does…

    • Mark

      Toni

      But you and MT here write about Finns and what they have done… so putting this article here – and speculating she was a Somali – you let everyone understand that a Finn was the attacker.

      This blog posts on matters we think are of interest to immigrants. Invariably the comments tend to focus on a much narrower agenda that is introduced here in comments not unlike the ones that you write. Still, you must try to get your facts clear.

      I mentioned how white woman attacked Tiger Woods and you commented, that I was again blaming a black man like a big racist does…

      Actually, you mentioned the white woman attacking Tiger only later. Your exact words were:

      this happens a lot. Not just in Finland. Even Tiger Woods had similar fight once…

      This was in a discussion about a specific case of domestic abuse in Finland. The relevance of your comment was highly questionable, other than the fact that you decided you wanted to talk about domestic situations involving a black man. Now why would you want to do that?

  15. Joonas

    Mark
    It is true that MT didn’t say that the attacker was a (white) Finn, but why this blog has these tags:
    Tagged: current-events, Finland, Racism, Somalis in Finland, violence
    First thing came to my mind was “oh, does MT actually nowadays report attacks against native Finns done by immigrants… wow, that’s refreshing!”. But then I remember it was also mentioned in the text “…Migrant Tales understands that the victim may be a Somali”. So, where is the racism of the story?

  16. eyeopener

    Hi Joonas.

    Excellent that you found a word in tha tages. Brilliant research. What about the content of the article? Could it be -maybe you missed the point- that Mark is drawing a comparison with bloggings you guys are absolutely well familiar with.
    🙂

  17. eyeopener

    And……… Farang. HS promotes multiculturalism and immigration. Well, a demonstration for the reading course necesity again.

    No, but Aamulehti knows what’s right. Hi Farang, critical reading is for higher class people. Simply too high for you. 🙂

  18. Joonas

    Hi eyeopener,
    I know what Mark is getting at and I’m fine by it. But do you think it helps to build a trust between native Finns and immigrants, if you publish stories without facts straights and except it be about racism towards immigrants (in this case towards a somali woman)? There is no “racism” in tags by accident. The story in the beginning was written in that way that it sounds like a somali woman was a victim of a racist attack. She is a victim for sure, but do we know it was because of racism?

    • Mark

      Joonas

      It might have been a result of bigotry, we just don’t know whose yet.

  19. eyeopener

    Hi Joonas.

    Who is publishing without facts?? What is the reason for such allegations. As you are participating in this discussion for quite a while you know what criticisms MT has to oppose Homma forum and others, Aamulehti and others!!

    So please, don’t draw that card because it’s the wrong one.

    You question: “was it racism?? In the case of the Finnish girl it was “foreigner committed crime”!! You measure with different tools.

    Aren’t you simple now Joonas??

  20. Joonas

    Hi eyeopener,

    Ok, what we know about the story: the facts. An older woman was assaulted in Myllypuro metro station in Helsinki. MT says the victim might have been a Somali, but doesn’t have any links where this information can be found. Police didn’t know the assaulter’s identity, but it seems that the person was (also) an immigrant, at least according to Farang. Notice, at the moment nothing indicates yet it was a racism motivated attack. The story might still change.

    You should be man enough to admit your mistakes for once. We don’t know the all facts yet (none of us). But it is ridiculous say that the case was racist in this point. MT just took his own conclusions (once again), because it suits to his agenda. If we find out that the attacker and victim didn’t belong to same ethnic group, then we can assume that there might be a change for racial motivated attack. Fair enough?

    And please, you don’t need to use multiple question- and exclamation marks to make your point clear. It makes you look simple.

  21. eyeopener

    Hi Toni. And Farang knows everything, doe he? Is Farang a police-man??

    Fine that you admit that your claim was a “brigde too early”. “If she was a Muslim, she may have been beaten by those who wanted to punish her walking alone outside”.

    Boeh for your blunt assumption. Don’t you think you shopuld apply for a job at Aamulehti? And leave the foreigener without your help (whatever help you provide)

    But the lure was so tasty. It sounded sooooooo good wasn’t it Toni??

    Go get some peanuts, monkey!!

  22. Toni

    Mark: “The relevance of your comment was highly questionable, other than the fact that you decided you wanted to talk about domestic situations involving a black man. Now why would you want to do that?”

    I wanted to discuss about the matter that domestic violence happens more outside Finland. You must agree that Finland is one of the most safe places for women to live??

    Eye: “Hi Toni. And Farang knows everything, doe he? Is Farang a police-man??”

    What? Are you asking me???

    eye: “Boeh for your blunt assumption. Don’t you think you shopuld apply for a job at Aamulehti?”

    Are you drunk? I hope not… I just had some nuts. I like them. Very healty.. Do monkeys eat nuts?

    I like this site. A lot of assumptions both ways. I hope no troll comes here to spoil this all…

  23. eyeopener

    No Toni. I am not drunk.

    But when you enter a perosn (Farang) as a source I would like to know this soiurce and its reliability. So, if Farang is a policeman then it can tell something about his trustwothiness, isn’t that so Toni?

    Domestic violence abroad has nothing to do with violence (domestic) in Finalnd. Let’s discuss this first. Comparative studies are rather difficult.

    According to reserach in Finland, this country is as dangerous for females as others countries. If you want to measure it internationally that doesnot change the fact THAT FEMALES IN FINLAND FEEL THREATENED.

    Therefore Toni keep the subject where it belongs: in FINLAND.

    Consult with Elven Archer. He is an expert in avoiding answering crucial questions. He is a Master in avoidance explaining Finland internal problems.

    You already start to get a hunch of it.

    Peanutbutter!!

  24. Toni

    eye: “But when you enter a perosn (Farang) as a source”

    I apologize.

    eye: “Domestic violence abroad has nothing to do with violence (domestic) in Finalnd.”

    Yes and no. Nothing to do with, but when compared it has significant meaning.

    Like foreigners raping rate in Oslo has nothing to do with this… sure it gives us a picture where we are going to.

    eye: According to reserach in Finland, this country is as dangerous for females as others countries. ”

    You really believe other countries report these problems like we do??
    Can you please show us this “study”??

    eye: “THAT FEMALES IN FINLAND FEEL THREATENED.”

    Sure, men feel that too. If you use a study where they ask: Have you ever felt threathened – answer is yes. No matter if you are a man, woman, girl, boy, gay, etc.

    Now, we monkeys keep telling that women here don’t feel safe because of foreigners.
    Then you tell that we are wrong but then you invent that women here feel not safe. That is what you bring up. Try to find out why they don’t feel safe.. We know: They are afraid of foreigners! At least some of them are.. 😉

    It depends who you ask from…

  25. D4R

    Joonas: I know what Mark is getting at and I’m fine by it. But do you think it helps to build a trust between native Finns and immigrants, if you publish stories without facts straights and except it be about racism towards immigrants (in this case towards a somali woman)? There is no “racism” in tags by accident. The story in the beginning was written in that way that it sounds like a somali woman was a victim of a racist attack. She is a victim for sure, but do we know it was because of racism

    Do you think what P.S party is doing to immigrants of how they stigmatize and label them as rapist, criminals, welfare leechers etc etc is helping build up trust between native Finns and immigrants?

  26. Toni

    This is a race of every case: When someone is attacked we compete who knows first is it a Finn or a Muslim or someone else… This is what this site is all about?

  27. Farang

    Toni has point there. Enrique & co are just racists who try to make their case based on peoples skin colour and ethnic background.

    For non-racists like me it doesn’t matter what race/background the criminal or victim has. The crime is always to be condemned.

    • Migrant Tales

      Farang, after reading and taking part in well over 30,000 comments your statement is nothing new: “…their case based on peoples skin colour and ethnic background.”

      You state that you are a so-called “non-racist” because you don’t care about a person’s background.

      In my book that would qualify you as a colorblind racist.

  28. justicedemon

    Farang

    There are many ways to be a racist. It’s much more than what you say. Anyone can be trained to avoid saying certain things in certain contexts.

    What matters is how you think and behave. The thin ice metaphor illustrates the point. You may swear and declare that the ice is safe, but if you stay close to the edge and call your children away from the middle of the lake, then you show by your conduct where your real opinions lie.

    In your case, Farang, you persistently dwell on negative aspects of minority population groups. This shows your true views in a way that no degree of presentable diplomatic expression can ever entirely conceal. The same goes for your response when anyone submits that there are certain aspects of the majority population group that we might similarly dwell on.

    You have in any case advocated different degrees of punishment, sanction and consequence for the same offence according to the nationality of the offender. Occasionally your guard slips and you write something of this kind that is slightly less salonkikelpoinen than you might have hoped.

    And of course, you have had one outburst removed by a moderator because MT cannot host content that defames a population group, so to that extent our moderators have even helped you to maintain your façade.

  29. Farang

    Colorblind racism is just an invented term by those who wants to hide their own racism. You yourself divide people to different groups based on their skin colour or other similar factor and you expect or promote different treatment for different groupt. That is racism in one of it’s most pure format. And those who are against that kind of racism (people who don’t approve different treatment based on skin colour) you accuse of being this invented “colorblind racism”.

  30. Farang

    justicedemon:

    “You have in any case advocated different degrees of punishment, sanction and consequence for the same offence according to the nationality of the offender.”

    Now this only proves that YOU can’t understand. If I advocate deportion for crimes, that is not a different degree of punishment. Intelligent person understands why, so I explain to you: Immigrant CAN be deported to his home country. Native Finn is alrady in his home country, so the effective punishment is same for both.

    And about that crap that you claim that I posted something that moderator had to remove is total bullshit. If moderator was idiot enough to THINK or INTERPRET something in wrong way, it only proves that moderator is idiot. It has nothing to do with me defaming any group. Try to remember this: Something doesn’t become a fact just by you or Enrique saying it’s a fact.

  31. justicedemon

    Farang

    There you go again, calling everyone idiot and stupid. That’s always a sure sign with you that an argument has touched a nerve. You had a comment deleted because it defamed a population group. Get over it. Everyone’s guard drops sometimes. Just be grateful that you didn’t write this in your own name in a public medium.

    Immigrant CAN be deported to his home country. Native Finn is alrady in his home country, so the effective punishment is same for both.

    This is the old US Supreme Court doctrine, and it’s fine as far as it goes, but it’s not how you have stated your position. What you wrote was this:

    And deportion should be automatic if person commits any crime. There should be no consideration what the person would propably face if deported back to home country.

    So let’s take the case of an immigrant with, say, a Finnish spouse and children of formative age. Let’s say that the Finnish spouse or a child cannot leave Finland because of a medical condition that can only be properly treated in Finland, or alternatively that the Finnish spouse and children cannot secure admission to the immigrant’s country of origin. Let’s say that the immigrant is performing highly specialised work that ensures the health and safety of third parties. Let’s say that the immigrant is a refugee from a regime that has tried the immigrant in absentia for a political offence and imposed the death penalty, or alternatively, that the immigrant escaped from that regime in order to avoid the option of being forced to work on a programme to develop and manufacture weapons of mass destruction. All of these scenarios are real, by the way. You will find them in the case law of the Finnish administrative courts and of the European Court of Human Rights.

    Now what’s the penalty for skidding off a deserted icy road and into a ditch, when this is interpreted as liikenneturvallisuuden vaarantaminen contrary to section 1 of chapter 23 of the Finnish Penal Code. Answer: a fine of maybe 10-15 days. Any crime, you said. OK – that clearly includes the foregoing criminal offence of endangering road safety.

    Now what were you saying about automatic deportation?

    How does a 100 euro fine turn out to be the same effective punishment as a 100 euro fine plus deportation that directly causes the breakup of a family and endangers the life and health of the deportee and third parties?

    Tell us you have thought this through – go on – tell us.

    And try not to say “stupid” or “idiot”.

  32. Joonas

    Hi D4R,

    – Do you think what P.S party is doing to immigrants of how they stigmatize and label them as rapist, criminals, welfare leechers etc etc is helping build up trust between native Finns and immigrants?

    Of course not. I think some of the PS members behavior is unacceptable. But I don’t think, if we use same dirty weapons as they do, we are any better. It will only create more conflict between natives and foreigners.

    • Migrant Tales

      Joonas, what do you mean by “dirty weapons?” Are those so-called dirty weapons nothing more than our democratic right to air our opinions?

  33. Joonas

    MT, by “dirty weapons” I mean fabrications and aiming the public opinion to direction what suits to your agenda. In your blog the stories are always: the immigrant was a victim of something, the native Finn the “bad guy”. I have checked Hommaforum a few times and it is exactly the same kind of bullshit, except the “bad guy” is always an immigrant. You would have never published this story if the victim was a white, native Finn and the attacker was an immigrant. I have NEVER seen any stories in here MT where the victim was a white Finn and the criminal was a foreigner.

  34. Toni

    MT: “Joonas, what do you mean by “dirty weapons?””

    Let me say. You write here texts like:
    “Monkey business for you too”
    “shows how little she knows”
    “a stupid and racist thing to say”

    You just keep bragging how a better person you think you are.
    No wonder we have racism if many foreigners are like you acting so racistic.

    You call me stupid if I don’t understand every word of my 3rd language.
    You call other people monkeys because of what YOU THINK they think.
    You call them racists because you “clearly see” it.

    You don’t care why they think what YOU THINK they think. You don’t care.. you just love to be a better person.

    Isn’t that hate speech? Even racistic? Dirty weapons?

    It certainly creates bad athmosphere… don’t blame us if we think you create bad athmosphere. You also think we are monkeys… and then you wonder why we don’t love all foreigners.

  35. Toni

    This comment fell short of our community standards and was deleted by a moderator. Replies may also be deleted.

    RL 11:10

    Yellow card

  36. Mark

    Toni

    Let me say. You write here texts like:
    “Monkey business for you too”
    “shows how little she knows”
    “a stupid and racist thing to say”

    You just keep bragging how a better person you think you are.
    No wonder we have racism if many foreigners are like you acting so racistic.

    There is nothing racist in the comments you quoted. They could be inaccurate, rude or insulting, but they are not racist.

    I seems very obvious to me that you Hommaforum folks are on a mission here, to appropriate the word ‘racism/racist’ and use it in so many completely inappropriate ways that it loses its strength and meaning. The subject of racism is brought up many many times more often by you folks than by us.

  37. Toni

    Mark: “I seems very obvious to me that you Hommaforum folks are on a mission here, to appropriate the word ‘racism/racist’ and use it in so many completely inappropriate ways that it loses its strength and meaning.”

    Usually people call hommalaisia PS members and many others as racists very easy. You do that too. So, perhaps I (and they) just use it because we are tired of hearing it.

    It is not a bad word because everyone uses it so much?

    I wonder why labeling some people stupid and monkeys is not racistic? But labeling some immigrants as a treath -and criminals- is?

  38. Mark

    Joonas

    It is true that MT didn’t say that the attacker was a (white) Finn, but why this blog has these tags:
    Tagged: current-events, Finland, Racism, Somalis in Finland, violence
    First thing came to my mind was “oh, does MT actually nowadays report attacks against native Finns done by immigrants… wow, that’s refreshing!”. But then I remember it was also mentioned in the text “…Migrant Tales understands that the victim may be a Somali”. So, where is the racism of the story?

    It’s a fair question Joonas. I think we can all agree that the suspicion is that this attack was a racist attack. Whether that suspicion is warranted is another matter, but it’s normal enough given today’s ‘climate’.

    I really don’t think that focusing on the tags is a legitimate criticism, as this is not a statement of fact or even of opinion. Most folks don’t even pay attention to tage. It is merely a possible context for the story, which is unfolding, as is more than obvious in the story itself.

    As to the fact that MT reports only on crimes or suspected racist crimes against immigrants, well, the blog is for the immigrant community who are interested to know about these things. Even if this turned out to be a racist attack, it does not really demonstrate the true state of racism in Finland. It is not meant to be a measure of that, even though the accusation constantly seems to be that publishing any such story is saying ‘Finland is a racist country’. Such a leap from individual stories is just too fanciful. You know too that I have criticised this wish to label a country as racist. It’s pointless. And yet our critics bring it up constantly. These stories are only a very small part of a very large picture. You don’t seem to trust people to be able to see that?

    I have said my opinion that we should report on attacks by immigrants on Finns that appear racist. That I think that would be balanced. My justification would be that we need to know and keep abreast of racism in all sections of the Finnish community. It is very common for racism to breed racism. Whatever the reasons for racism, it’s still wrong.
    However, even if we didn’t report those events as and when they happen, I’m 100% certain that our visiting commentators would bring our attention to them! Don’t you agree?

  39. Toni

    Mark: “As to the fact that MT reports only on crimes or suspected racist crimes against immigrants”

    Actually he publishes crimes against foreigners. He thinks they all are automatically racistic crimes… he sees it clearly. And that is racistic thinking.

    • Mark

      Toni

      Actually he publishes crimes against foreigners. He thinks they all are automatically racistic crimes… he sees it clearly. And that is racistic thinking.

      Let’s see now, you are saying you know what and why MT does something. That is very easily resolved. Who knows better the reason why they do something? The person that does it, or the outside observer who actually does not even know this person personally, and actually is someone who represents a totally opposed view towards immigrants?

      The other point is that you claim he automatically sees them as racist crimes. So, if he is only suspicious, that is okay? It’s only if he sees it automatically as a racist crime that you consider this racist thinking?

      Exactly how you arrive at this word ‘racist’ is slightly baffling, Toni. Even if MT assumed automatically that every single crime ever committed against an immigrant was a result of the racist actions of Finns, that would still not amount to saying that ALL Finns are racist, which I assume is the only opinion that would reveal racism directly?

      In fact, by definition, if true this would only reveal ‘ALL criminal Finns’ to be racist, and one could argue that criminal Finns are not really a good group by which to make conclusions about ordinary law-abiding Finns? Now if only you folks would apply that same logic to immigrants, we probably wouldn’t have arrived at this confusion in the first place!

  40. Mark

    Toni

    Usually people call hommalaisia PS members and many others as racists very easy. You do that too. So, perhaps I (and they) just use it because we are tired of hearing it.

    Maybe you could direct some of your effort into trying to understand why people perceive Hommalaisia and PS folk as racist?

    JD made this point to Farang last night and it carries a lot of weight in my mind:

    In your case, Farang, you persistently dwell on negative aspects of minority population groups. This shows your true views in a way that no degree of presentable diplomatic expression can ever entirely conceal.

    This sums it up well.

    Also, you must remember that all the Far Right groups throughout Europe have been undergoing something of an overhaul. It’s an unwritten rule that you do not express overtly racist comments in ‘public’, and that you make the case against these kinds of immigrants on different grounds, i.e. economic, justice, etc. However, the history of these groups and their historical and explicit racism in the past does not exactly fill one with confidence, does it? At what point do PS admit that racism has been a problem for its party and that it’s doing everything it can to root it out? It seems to me that the only ‘rooting out’ that happens is against those stupid enough to mention their honest views in public. And in the meantime, the focus has shifted and is being shifted constantly to the negative aspects of immigrants and immigration. While immigrants are human beings, there will ALWAYS be some negative material to throw around. While immigrants are generally poor, there will ALWAYS be negative statistics to throw around. Well, that suits them just fine!

    I wonder why labeling some people stupid and monkeys is not racistic? But labeling some immigrants as a treath -and criminals- is?

    In some contexts, monkey as a pejorative refers to someone who is depicted as unevolved, or in the Chinese sense of mischevious. In some other contexts, the pejorative can be a racial slur, i.e. when specifically aimed at blacks by whites and in indirect reference to skin colour. You know this Toni, so why are you asking?

    Let’s try and get away from labelling. In the case of PS supporters, they belong voluntarily to a political group seeking concrete power in the decision making institutions of this country – their views and their party status are legitimate targets for critique and labelling. You might not like that, but it’s perfectly reasonable. In the same way, anyone pushing a political agenda must accept that same response.

    This is not the same as labelling groups criminal based on nationality alone. It is not anything like the same thing. You would do well to learn that.

  41. Joonas

    Thanks, Mark. An excellent comment and I agree with it almost fully.

    – I have said my opinion that we should report on attacks by immigrants on Finns that appear racist. That I think that would be balanced. My justification would be that we need to know and keep abreast of racism in all sections of the Finnish community.

    This is what I would except too. This would also help to recognize why some people has racist feelings towards some minority groups. I think it would be very simplistic to think that “racism” comes because the person has not travel, is uneducated, is stupid or does not know any foreigners. Some pro-immigrant people easily label anti-immigrant this way. This kind of labeling is also very common in anti-immigrant groups where some minority groups as labeled as thiefs and rapists.

    – These stories are only a very small part of a very large picture. You don’t seem to trust people to be able to see that?

    Yes and no. Let’s say a foreigner is planning to move to Finland and he tries to find out english information about it. He most likely he will end up to MT and what he sees: only horror stories how badly foreigners are treated in Finland and how the danger is lurking around a corner. If you read these stories you get an impression that Finns are treating like garbage and foreigners are like model citizen.

    The other bad thing in MT is that there is never any success stories the most immigrants has. I have many (visible) immigrant friends who love being in Finland, who have a good career and have not faced racism. One of them said to me that if he would have read MT before coming here, he probably would have not.

    • Mark

      Joonas

      Some pro-immigrant people easily label anti-immigrant this way. This kind of labeling is also very common in anti-immigrant groups where some minority groups as labeled as thiefs and rapists.

      Yep, it would be nice to get away from this.

      The other bad thing in MT is that there is never any success stories the most immigrants has. I have many (visible) immigrant friends who love being in Finland, who have a good career and have not faced racism. One of them said to me that if he would have read MT before coming here, he probably would have not.

      It is the hope of the editors to broaden the role of Migrant Tales in the course of the next year. This will open new avenues for exactly these kinds of ‘success stories’ that you speak of. Being an immigrants brings new vistas, challenging and also fulfilling experiences, and occasionally, some disappointing experiences. There are challenges wherever you live. But the feeling we have is that ‘more’ of the story needs to be told. Sometimes that will be an uncomfortable story to hear and sometimes it will be uplifting. I hope that Migrant Tales can fulfill this expanding mission in the future.

    • Migrant Tales

      –The other bad thing in MT is that there is never any success stories the most immigrants has.

      But we have had stories like this and this blog is an example of a “success story” so to speak.

      We are always looking for new stories. If you know of any success cases we’d be happy to report them. Here is one link: http://wp.me/p4UBR-12f

    • justicedemon

      Ricky

      We are always looking for new stories. If you know of any success cases we’d be happy to report them. Here is one link: http://wp.me/p4UBR-12f

      It is very instructive to see how one of our more rabid contributors tried to trivialise the numerous examples given and to divert that thread at the end. It’s also interesting that none of the hommaforum types had anything to contribute there.

    • Migrant Tales

      Justice, I wonder how many immigrant success stories has Hommaforum discussed never mind an immigrant going there and making a comment.

    • Mark

      Hi Joonas

      On the question of Migrant Tales publishing stories that focus on the success stories of immigrants in Finland, I thought this might interest you:

      This is all a bit silly. No one has ever said literally every single immigrant is a failure and a burden. Concentrating on the success stories and forgetting the failures is rather misleading and gives a false impression.

      It was written by one of our regular critics and anti-immigrationists – Klay_immigrant.

      Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

  42. Toni

    MarK: “Maybe you could direct some of your effort into trying to understand why people perceive Hommalaisia and PS folk as racist?”

    I have asked that here and the responses have been: “Isn’t it clear”, “I see it clearly”, etc.

    Some people just work for looking for errors, problems and faults. Is it a bad thing? MT does that same.

    Mark: “what point do PS admit that racism has been a problem for its party and that it’s doing everything it can to root it out? ”

    Why to admit a problem that doesn’t exist? It exists only in your mind.
    When do Vihreät or Vasemmistoliitto admit that they have radicals and that is a problem?

    Mark: “the pejorative can be a racial slur, i.e. when specifically aimed at blacks by whites and in indirect reference to skin colour”

    But Homma and PS are against bad immigration, not just black immigration. If some are black, you can give them some white paint so you are happy? Did I just say something I regret later? But you seem to think black skin is the problem.

    Mark: “you are saying you know what and why MT does something. ”

    He knows, so I know. Just using his way of expressing opinions.

    Mark: “Who knows better the reason why they do something? The person that does it, or the outside observer who actually does not even know this person personally, and actually is someone who represents a totally opposed view towards immigrants?”

    So, then I am the best person to say what and why MT does this?

    Mark: “So, if he is only suspicious, that is okay?”

    But you said before that kind of suspecting creates bad athmosphere?

    Mark: “that would still not amount to saying that ALL Finns are racist, which I assume is the only opinion that would reveal racism directly?”

    But you wrote PS is a racistic party. Did you wrote Homma is a racistic forum? Even without knowing them all..

    • Mark

      Toni

      MarK: “Maybe you could direct some of your effort into trying to understand why people perceive Hommalaisia and PS folk as racist?”

      I have asked that here and the responses have been: “Isn’t it clear”, “I see it clearly”, etc.

      I think you’ll find you’ve had many responses, and that those two were just two of them. Personally, I think that there are a mixture of people in PS and Homma. Some are more obviously racist than others. There are not many that I would describe as ‘educated’ about the issue of racism, even if they are educated about the issue of ‘anti-immigration’.

      Why to admit a problem that doesn’t exist? It exists only in your mind.

      How long and how many people do you have say this to before you start to doubt it?

      But Homma and PS are against bad immigration, not just black immigration. If some are black, you can give them some white paint so you are happy? Did I just say something I regret later? But you seem to think black skin is the problem.

      Hahaha, very funny. I don’t think this debate is always and specifically about racism, though clearly that is part of it. Sometimes, it is simply about ‘visible minorities’.

      But you wrote PS is a racistic party. Did you wrote Homma is a racistic forum? Even without knowing them all..

      I’m not sure that I have said that. I would say that PS has racists in their party, a lot and certainly a lot more than most, and that their policies and their ideology are strongly discriminatory. However, PS is a mixed bag, ideologically and historically. Expect more ‘divisions’ to emerge as they get closer to power. Or maybe they have blown the opportunity already!

  43. Toni

    Mark. “How long and how many people do you have say this to before you start to doubt it?”

    There are some hundreds of people in Homma to tell you they are not Racists. So, how many you need?

    Why do you think it is racism when they don’t want some people here? Or when they talk about problems some people (foreigners and Finns) cause? Is talking about Ilkka Kanerva that racism you mean? Or discussing about child mulasters (Lestadiolaiset)?

    Mark: “I would say that PS has racists in their party, a lot and certainly a lot more than most, and that their policies and their ideology are strongly discriminatory.”

    And I would say RKP has more racists. They even give medals named after famous racist. Some of them don’t even want to let Finns to same school with their children.
    That kind of racism against children is quite damaging, don’t you think?

    • Mark

      Toni

      There are some hundreds of people in Homma to tell you they are not Racists. So, how many you need?

      That tells me absolutely nothing. First, racists rarely admit to being racist nowadays. In fact, I honestly think that they manage to convince themselves that they are not racist. You cannot rely on extremists to know that they are extremists. Other means are necessary.

      Why do you think it is racism when they don’t want some people here? Or when they talk about problems some people (foreigners and Finns) cause? Is talking about Ilkka Kanerva that racism you mean? Or discussing about child mulasters (Lestadiolaiset)?

      Say no more. They talk about the problems not because they want to solve them but because they want to stigmatize a group of people to such an extent that public opinion will turn against immigration of these people. Child molestors – now that is an interesting one, isn’t it. Everyone hates molestors – so they can practice their hate against these people (many of whom were abused themselves) and no-one is going to say a word. Wow. Big men! Protecting kids! Who could possibly object to that. And tell me, what kind of solutions do they discuss – treatment for abusers? Better treatment for abused kids as a prevention measure? Or do they discuss taking them behind the sauna building and cutting their balls off? Give me a break, Toni. Yep…Homma will sort all of society’s problems out.

      And I would say RKP has more racists.

      Hey, Toni, you just said that PS has NO racists, so why are you saying that RKP have more? More than whom?

  44. Toni

    Mark: “That tells me absolutely nothing. First, racists rarely admit to being racist nowadays”

    So, what kind of people you mean? If someone defends PS you label that person as a racist… Only those, who think PS is a racistic party, are ok?

    Mark: “You cannot rely on extremists to know that they are extremists. Other means are necessary.”

    Because you seem to be an extremist, what kind of means you mean that could help you?

    Mark: “They talk about the problems not because they want to solve them but because they want to stigmatize a group of people.. ”

    I don’t think so. If I would discuss the problems, my motive would be to dig the problems up, expose them, stop hiding them and finaly solve the problem. Usually it is solved by exposing it…
    That is what I believe they are doing there. That is what MT is doing here? No, he wants to stigmaize PS and Homma.

    Mark: “And tell me, what kind of solutions do they discuss – treatment for abusers?”

    By exposing it, the future possible victimes will see it and not to expose it. By exposing the danger we can avoid it better. That is why they train us at work to handle electricity, machines, etc. So that we can notice and avoid danger!

    Mark: “Give me a fucking break, Toni.”

    Why? Why again this kind of words to me??

    Mark: “Hey, Toni, you just said that PS has NO racists, so why are you saying that RKP have <bmore? More than whom?"

    More than others. I should have used "the most". PS has hardly any. Sometimes some of them may say or write something that can be interpreted rasistic.. like any other people do sometimes.

    • Mark

      So, what kind of people you mean? If someone defends PS you label that person as a racist… Only those, who think PS is a racistic party, are ok?

      Well, that would contradict what I’ve previously said, which is that PS is a mixed bag. I don’t think they are all obvious racists. I think a lot of them have discriminatory views and do not consdier them racist, but based on ‘economic reasons’, or ‘reasons of cultural compatibility’, and all the other soothing justifications for gentle hatred.

      Because you seem to be an extremist, what kind of means you mean that could help you?

      Extremist views include trying to control art, language, immigration, racial and cultural mixing. You might think they are perfectly mainstream? In which case you are probably an extremist.

      I don’t think so. If I would discuss the problems, my motive would be to dig the problems up, expose them, stop hiding them and finaly solve the problem. Usually it is solved by exposing it…
      That is what I believe they are doing there. That is what MT is doing here? No, he wants to stigmaize PS and Homma.

      Yep, poor Homma and PS, they just want to ‘expose’ the truth. I’ve heard all that crap before. Another word for ‘expose’ is stigmatize. There are police and other authorities whose responsibility it is to ‘expose’ crime and deal with it, or to ‘expose’ problems and deal with them. Almost all of the immigrants problems are not unique to immigrants, but are common to poor and marginalised populations. And what is the language of Homma for these kinds of people? Do they refer to them as ‘vulnerable’, ‘traumatized’, ‘desparate’, ‘isolated’ or ‘disenfranchised’? Nope – rapists, benefit scroungers, lazy bums, religious extremists, terrorists and criminals! Yep, I’ve heard plenty of the Homma formula for dealing with problems of immigration, Toni.

      By exposing it, the future possible victimes will see it and not to expose it. By exposing the danger we can avoid it better.

      So you are exposing children to the risks of being molested and telling them, don’t worry, you can avoid it better now?

      Why? Why again this kind of words to me??

      Because you try to present Homma as some kind of benevolant social vigilantes, when they are mostly fear-ridden, testosterone-fueled hate junkies! And their discussion of child abuse only confirms that. Solutions offered do typically include taking the molesters behind the sauna building and cutting their balls off. 2 Cents offered that little nugget of insight a couple of days ago. Wonderful – my faith in human nature is restored! It’s one hate rollercoaster after another.

      And who are they really helping? Do I feel helped as an immigrant seeing how Homma go out of their way to stigmatize particular groups of people? They are like an internet lynch mob, with lynch mob justice and a lynch mob mentality.

      Mark: “Hey, Toni, you just said that PS has NO racists, so why are you saying that RKP have <bmore? More than whom?"

      More than others. I should have used "the most". PS has hardly any.

      So who is a racist in PS?

  45. justicedemon

    Toni

    There are some hundreds of people in Homma to tell you they are not Racists. So, how many you need?

    I am always much more convinced by people who think about the question and then say well, maybe a little bit.

  46. Toni

    jd: “I am always much more convinced by people who think about the question and then say well, maybe a little bit.”

    I just did 😉

    “Sometimes some of them may say or write something that can be interpreted rasistic.. like any other people do sometimes.”

    But Mark (and MT) here keeps telling he knows the motives why people in Homma write about things… even he doesn’t know. So he is not convincing any more?

    But I still like them.

  47. Mark

    Toni

    But Mark (and MT) here keeps telling he knows the motives why people in Homma write about things… even he doesn’t know. So he is not convincing any more?

    I hardly ever write about the people in Homma. I do know that Elven Archer is a regular as is Andy and Hannu. And I know that they take an inordinate interest in what we have to say ‘over here’.

    But, I’m sure that Homma attracts all sorts of people. I’m just not convinced that, for example, that I could go there and be able to convey even a smidgeon of my own approach to society and life and have it validated. That must be because I’m such an extremist, obviously!

  48. Toni

    Mark: “Yep, poor Homma and PS, they just want to ‘expose’ the truth.”

    I didn’t talk about the truth. You brought it up.

    They raise up things they think are wrong. Digging out the truth is usually a good thing.
    You disagree?

    Mark: “There are police and other authorities whose responsibility it is to ‘expose’ crime and deal with it, or to ‘expose’ problems and deal with them.”

    Actually no. The police usually needs first someone to point out the case.
    And these days the police don’t have enough resources and there has always been civil detectives to help the police starting an investigation.

    But you don’t like this kind of digging of the truth?

    Mark: “So you are exposing children to the risks of being molested and telling them, don’t worry, you can avoid it better now?”

    No. When parents see what is going on, they can protect their children better.
    And they can guide and teach their children…

    Mark: “I Because you try to present Homma as some kind of benevolate social vigilantes, when they are mostly fear-ridden, testosterone-fueled hate junkies!”

    And isn’t discussing their problems a good way to let some steam out? And some people there keep cooling them, like Fobba does. What do you suggest instead? You have better solution?

    Mark. “And who are they really helping? Do I feel helped as an immigrant seeing how Homma go out of their way to stigmatize particular groups of people?”

    That is exactly the same reaction someone here told their reactions about MT site??

    Mark: “They are like an internet lynch mob, with lynch mob justice and a lynch mob mentality.”

    And you think a better way would be to let them walk in the streets with full of anger without anyone explaining that they are wrong??
    Now they are controlled and calmed down. I see that as a very good thing.

    • Mark

      Toni

      They raise up things they think are wrong. Digging out the truth is usually a good thing.
      You disagree?

      There are usually two sides to a story and the truth is often somewhere in the middle. But people still have to reach towards the middle to find it. I don’t see that happening very much in the people coming from Homma.

      But you don’t like this kind of digging of the truth?

      People can report incidents to the police without having to flag up their chivalry in public forums. But tell me more about this what Homma do, because it’s news to me.

      No. When parents see what is going on, they can protect their children better.
      And they can guide and teach their children…

      Well, I don’t know about that. I do know that there is a huge paranoia about peadophelia in the UK now and rates of abuse have not changed that much. Does the paranoia help? Let’s see how the next generation feel about it all. Do people in Homma understand it as an illness or as a side-effect of earlier child abuse? I’m very suspicious about this Homma crusade against child molesters, for the simple reason that these people are often objects of hate in society, and Homma is not exactly known for it’s lovely warm feeling towards foreigners, is it. It seems that what these topics have in common is this ‘hate response’.

      And isn’t discussing their problems a good way to let some steam out? And some people there keep cooling them, like Fobba does. What do you suggest instead? You have better solution?

      Well good on Fobba. I’m glad to hear it and I’m not surprised either. Like I said, I imagine them to be a mixed bag. Is it good to let off steam? There is no simple answer to that. For some people, expressing anger in some kind of small harmless way helps to relieve the pressure and they quickly cool down. For others, the same small expressions of anger only work to make them even more upset. It really depends where the ‘energy’ is going. If the energy goes out in a harmless way and it’s let go of, then it can be good. If the energy only goes ‘inside’, then that can inflame the situation, drop the cognitive functioning down another peg or two, etc.

      That is exactly the same reaction someone here told their reactions about MT site??

      Fair enough. I take that on board. More should be done to look for solutions and common ground. The cynicism and one-upmanship of the debate does not really help though to keep people focused on finding solutions.

      And you think a better way would be to let them walk in the streets with full of anger without anyone explaining that they are wrong??
      Now they are controlled and calmed down. I see that as a very good thing.

      Well the choice seems to be:

      ‘an individual with incoherent anger issues towards foreigners and a changing society perhaps exacerbated by his/her own unemployment walking down the street and feeling miserable’

      or

      ‘an individual with incoherent anger issues towards foreigners and a changing society perhaps exacerbated by his/her own unemployment channelling that into a group situation that gives him/her an eventual platform in Parliament where he/she can direct his/her anger into doing everything possible to diminish the status and freedoms of those foreigners?’

      I’ll take the first one, thank you!

  49. Toni

    Mark. “There are usually two sides to a story and the truth is often somewhere in the middle. ”

    Yes, and there are messages from all perspectives.

    Mark: “I don’t see that happening very much in the people coming from Homma.”

    Who do you mean? I see that happening a lot in Homma.

    MarK.”But tell me more about this what Homma do, because it’s news to me.”

    What Homma does? I don’t know. There are people from all perspectives who write opinions and observations. Then there are moderators who supervise discussion and give calming comments if needed. Sometimes I have heard they banned some for few days. But perhaps that was before I started to read it.

    So, these days it is very “clean” place. I don’t know what it was before.

    Mark: “Does the paranoia help? Let’s see how the next generation feel about it all.”

    Yes. Many feels it helps. But does it really? At least they can let some steam out instead of letting some blood out…

    Mark: “Do people in Homma understand it as an illness or as a side-effect of earlier child abuse?”

    I don’t see gays are ill. Or those who love shues. And not all mulasters have been mulasted. So, many people see them different ways. There are many kind of opinions.

    Mark: “I’m very suspicious about this Homma crusade against child molesters”

    I haven’t been following that. I have spend my last days here… 😉
    You have good point at the end. I can’t pick either one before thinking… now I go to enjoy some sun.. damn it is cloudy!

  50. Toni

    MT: “I wonder how many immigrant success stories has Hommaforum discussed never mind an immigrant going there and making a comment.”

    I think I have seen few. Like Jonathas Chagas news. 20 msgs about that subject and all are very positive, I think.
    So you are wrong, again? 😉

    I have seen suggestions for own area for discussion about problems that immigrants experience.
    And suggestions about how to get some immigrants there… So, just go there! But be nice to those monkeys..

  51. I am

    hay Toni,
    Can a foreigner write about the fact, racist in Finland? About wrong system, cruel law and racist police in Homma forum???
    Or he/she must be very careful and just write what u like and is positive ur idea?
    Whats negative ur idea Toni? If people say the fact in their life?
    we cant say to people HAY uuuu come and dance with my music, if not , u r against me, u r not with me, dont like u, hate u, shut up, u r extra, u r not beautiful in my eyes,
    NO NO NO< we cant
    Respect for people is very important, they should be free to talk about their pains, otherwise
    they should save their pains in themselves and thats not good for their health.
    Thats what we call in the freedoom of speech
    Oh dont enjoy much sun Toni, dont make yourself a bit dark, because
    then
    when u look at mirror, u will say
    Who r u?
    Dont shock thats u Toni, u r u even with a different color.
    LOL

  52. Akaaro

    Farang. Enrique, I think you fell into your own shit now Still waiting for verification, but seems that the person who assaulted that woman was an immigrant

    well, The older woman is recovering well now and already doctors sent her home. She is a somali and a Finn man feeling a big groggy for drinking alot, was hit her in order to throw her into the Metro rails. Fortunately, that didn’t happen.

    • Migrant Tales

      –Farang. Enrique, I think you fell into your own shit now Still waiting for verification, but seems that the person who assaulted that woman was an immigrant

      Thank you Akaaro for clearing that up. These guys will invent anything to discredit Migrant Tales. If Farang read the story, we never mentioned that the attacker was a white Finns. All we wrote was about the older woman’s ethnic identity.

  53. Toni

    Iam: “Can a foreigner write about the fact, racist in Finland?”

    Yes we have some racism in Finland, and sure you can write about that.
    But there may be some monkeys who write back, if you blame them or the Finns. Like I told, monkeys don’t like foreigners who come here to complain how they feel they are treated wrong. Some other may think it is right way to treat foreigners…

    Iam: “About wrong system, cruel law and racist police in Homma forum???”

    There is always something wrong in the system. And it is never fair to everyone. You can write about what do you think is wrong with it.

    But before going to Homma you could try to do it here…

    Iam: “Dont shock thats u Toni, u r u even with a different color.”

    I like to get brown. I don’t like to be so white. Most people like to have some tan…

  54. justicedemon

    Toni

    MT: “I wonder how many immigrant success stories has Hommaforum discussed never mind an immigrant going there and making a comment.”
    I think I have seen few. Like Jonathas Chagas news. 20 msgs about that subject and all are very positive, I think.
    So you are wrong, again?

    I don’t usually give free English lessons here, but please note that “a few” = “some”, whereas “few” = “not many”.

    The example of Jonathas Chagas is interesting for many reasons, not least because the story could very easily be given the opposite spin: at a time when engineers are finding it increasingly difficult to keep their jobs, why does Supercell need to bring in someone from abroad? Chagas is getting a lot of help from others and expects them to speak English? Why doesn’t he learn Finnish? How long should we carry this passenger?

    What comes across most clearly, however, is that Supercell and its CEO are favourably disposed to global operation, and also seem to understand what this means in practice at the level of individual employees.

    Even so, I would still expect Chagas to join a union and put in the effort to understand the job market more broadly. The measure of a successful immigration experience is not in smiling a lot and relying on the charity of others in an expatriate bubble. It’s much more about expressing yourself as an independent contributor and player in the various circles of work and life in general. I want to know how he is getting on after five years and some experience of YT negotiations, unexpected tax demands, personal conflict and other setbacks.

  55. I am

    But before going to Homma you could try to do it here
    I am free here,i have my own freedon here, no/one hates me, oh noooo all love me specially u LOL : )))))))))))
    Ha ha ha , i never go there, never Toni
    MT is my favour
    yes brown is a beautiful color, i thought u have black hairs?
    But all colors are perfect, my idea
    For me the color of our hearts is important
    Black is not a good colour for heart
    Mine is white
    What about u Toni?
    ha ha ha

  56. eihannu

    So enrique is again doing what police says is “inciting ethnic agitation/violence” by spreading rumours/lies like prior cases.
    “Tutkinnanjohtaja kieltää rasistisen motiivin ja sanoo, että somaliyhteisö itse aiheuttaa rotuvihaa lietsoessaan perättömiä huhuja surmatyöstä.”
    And yes you implied that case was racist, dont back up but prove it.

    And about hommaforum, go and discuss. There is about 8000 registered members, 27,700 threads and 947,500 messages. And they do discuss positive news too, you can be almost sure that any, positive or negative, news about immigration/related to immigrants is there.

    Are you too scared to go there?

    • Mark

      Hannu

      Too scared to go there? That is exactly the kind of macho crap I’m NOT interested in.

    • Migrant Tales

      Mark, if I recall you did post a comment on Hommaforum but nobody showed up.

    • Migrant Tales

      eihannu, am I scared to post on Hommaforum? Not really. I only go to sites where I am welcomed. Think about the difference between Hommaforum, an offshoot of Scripta, and Migrant Tales. You can comment here without us sending a social-media lynch mob after you.

      I am inciting “ethnic violence?” LOL. Nice try but no cigar.

  57. justicedemon

    eihannu

    Why don’t you explain the full context of that police officer’s remark?

    It’s not difficult to hear echoes of the Stephen Lawrence case now:

    Some of the most memorable moments of the Macpherson inquiry of 1998-99 involved the exploration of denial among police officers involved in the first, failed investigation of the murder. Again and again, in baffling terms, they insisted that Stephen’s race had nothing to do with the crime.

    This was at odds with the facts. Five people were waiting at the Eltham bus stop that night, but it was only the two black ones (Stephen and his friend, Duwayne Brooks) who were attacked by white youths who used the word “nigger”. It was even recorded as a racial murder by the police themselves the next day, though that was no more than a formality.

    “I believe that the motive for Stephen’s death had nothing to do with colour,” said one detective. Another declared: “Had he been black, white, green, blue or yellow, he would still have been attacked and killed.”

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