Muslims are not the real enemy to European democracy

by , under All categories, Enrique

It is quite significant when EU heavyweights such as France and Germany take a stand on an important issue like immigration and diversity. Recent statements by German Chancellor Angela Merkel are a good example of the disturbing trend, when she stated that multiculturalism had “utterly failed” in Germany.

The statement by Merkel, which does nothing to promote greater integration between different groups in Germany, does not bring anything constructive to the table. At the best, it ends up polarizing Germans of different ethnic and religious origin even more.

A critical journalist would ask why Merkel is making such affirmations at this particular moment. The answer is simple: Germany will hold elections in a number of states in 2011.

Merkel’s statement even caused a reaction from UN Secretary Ban Ki Moon, who warned against a “dangerous trend” of intolerance emerging in Europe especially against Muslim immigrants.

“A dangerous trend is emerging, a new politics of polarization. Some play on people’s fears,” he said. “They accuse immigrants of violating European values. Yet too often it is the accusers who subvert these values and thus the very idea of what it means to be a citizen of the European Union.”

What is the danger of ever-greater intolerance and polarization in Europe? For one it paves the way for other minority groups to become targets and victims of intolerance. It would be naive to think that the only “enemy” are Muslims.

The greatest threat to Europe is not any particular ethnic or religious group but those who want to draw us apart from our diversity.

If the worrying trend continues in a global climate of economic uncertainty, it has the ability of impoverishing us in many ways. Instead of reaping benefits from our diversity we will be spending too much time hating each other.

  1. Tony Garcia

    “Muslims are not the real enemy … but those who want to draw us apart from our diversity.”

    For the last 2 years I saw you misquoting Heinäluoma, mistranslating Urplilainen, misreporting the “racist” temple attach, even fabricating the news about the referendum on mosques.

    Now I would like to know what your “critical” journalist skills tells you what the victims of 9/11, London, Madrid or Bali would think about this conclusion of yours. Would they be offended by it? Or better, do you even care if they are?

    It’s ease to talk about Muslims after be living for 30 years in a country where the Islamic population is close to nothing. It’s ease to say to those who have hordes of Muslims rioting and burning their streets, how intolerant they are. Everything is ease when only exists on the TV screen.

    I’ll quote my wise grandma – “Pimenta nos olhos dos outros e refresco” (Pepper on others eyes is refreshment)

    • Enrique

      Tony, I really don’t know where you have lived nor the people you congregate with. If you lived in the United States, we have companies that reap profits from diversity. You can even take a course called diversity management. Maybe you should and then you would see the plunders of your so-called “monocultural” take on things.

      Fabricate the news. You really have made me laugh today. I feally enjoyed What was the other one you said: “Dismissed as non-sense by the lefties who fly around this blog.” That was pretty funny.

      Nobody says that violence from any side is acceptable. What is wrong is that you turn such a crime into wrath the spews on EVERYONE in that group. If I were a Muslim I could point out a few atrocities committed against these people. What about the Japanese and Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Here is a quote for you: “Fanaticism is overcompensation for doubt.” (Robertson Davies).

  2. Osmo

    It is disturbing that Multiculturalism has failed in every country it has been tried in. What do you think is the cause of this failure? I believe it is the artificial movement of large numbers of people from one country to another. Or, in the case of the Soviet Union, the forced movement of a large number of people from one part of USSR to another, as in the past. Either way, it is bound to cause problems. Why? Because it disturbs the whole traditional way of the local people. It would take a book to state all the ways it disrupts a country. That is why multiculturalism has failed in every country. So, having failed what is the point of promoting it?

    • Enrique

      –It is disturbing that Multiculturalism has failed in every country it has been tried in.

      Another one that does not know how to use the term multiculturalism correctly. By the way, it is written in lower case.

  3. Tony Garcia

    “Maybe you should…”

    Thanks, but, no thanks.

    “Fabricate the news. You really have made me laugh today.”

    Sorry, I didn’t know that the referendum on mosques from the previous article was only a typo.

    “That was pretty funny.”

    Thanks, I really try my best when writing to your blog.

    “What about the Japanese and Hiroshima and Nagasaki.”

    Well, here is another quote for you: “What ended the Second War wasn’t the glittering from the ‘give peace a chance’ movement but the heating from the ‘little boy'” (Tony Garcia)

  4. Tony Garcia

    “Another one that does not know how to use the term multiculturalism correctly.”

    Apparently neither do the head of France or German government for that matter, luckily we have you to show us ‘the light’.

    • Enrique

      –Apparently neither do the head of France or German government for that matter, luckily we have you to show us ‘the light’.

      Tony, you live in Ireland. Tell us about the anti-immigration movement there. Is there a local BNP party? If you work in a Finnish company how does it deal with diversity. Probably that diversity is something you are using to project the whole of Europe. From what I have heard, Ireland is an example in this respect. But the question remains: why such a rapid growth in the immigration population has given birth to no anti-immigration parties? Is it because it was done right? Is it because politicians look for solutions than blame immigrants for their failures? Is it because Ireland had so many immigrants in the past.

    • Enrique

      Tony, taking into account Ireland’s favorable stance towards immigrants, do you think you would have ever got a chance of getting the same job in Finland (start learning Finnish) never mind Denmark? You have it too easy. You criticize people who speak out for normal things and at the same time reap benefits from living in a country that seems to have come to terms with diversity. Do you speak Irish? Or are you one of these foreign workers who still has a difficult time assimilating into the Irish way of life? Does the country allow you to be different/celebrate your diversity? Or is that loathing of Muslims the same you had for poor people in Brazil? Why do they exist, right?

  5. Hannu

    “If you lived in the United States, we have companies that reap profits from diversity. You can even take a course called diversity management.”

    Yes companies who give that training reap profits and companies receive it to avoid lawsuits from other companies reaping profits.
    Its like fire insurances certain people sell.

  6. xyz

    So many companies in Dublin could not operate if there would be no foreigners in this country. If somebody wants to see some foreigners please let me know. I can invite you to our company 🙂

    • Enrique

      xyz, maybe you should explain to Tony and Hannu how Ireland has developed thanks to foreign investment and immigration. Does Ireland have an anti-immigration party? Didn’t the immigration population grow from about 0% to 11% of the population within 15 years? What about diversity of the Irish police force? While some think that the best way to move ahead is to kill diversity, others are reaping benefits. Hannu, in Tampere there are cheap Ryanair flights to Dublin. Go and visit the country and tell us about it.

  7. Tony Garcia

    Let me see, NTY article

    “Ban Building of Minarets on Mosques”

    Your article

    “Ban on building minarets and mosques.”

    My English is not quite good as yours, so please help me here, isn’t there a difference between “on mosques” and “and mosques”?

    • Enrique

      Tony my sentence with the one in the NY Times article means the same thing.

  8. Klay_Immigrant

    Ah UN Secretary Ban Ki Moon, from a country they call South Korea, where there are 1.1% immigrants (half of which have Chinese nationality but Korean ethnicity), 0.1% Muslims, and where discrimination based on race is still legal. He is certainly the best person to talk about immigration and tolerance issues. Next thing the Japanese will lead whale and dolphin conservation or the Chinese on the freedom of the press.

    Ban Ki Moon comments hold no weight, just a nice diplomatic politically correct response to a problem completely alien to his home country from an organisation who flexes their muscles in the mirror but when it comes to fight time never shows up.

  9. Tony Garcia

    “Do you speak Irish?”

    Who does it?

    “From what I have heard, Ireland is an example in this respect.”

    Really?

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0403/1224243935347.html

    The Minister said the Government is pursuing a policy of integration, which he said is a mid-point between the two polarities of assimilation and multiculturalism.

    Mr Lenihan said that the policy of assimilation resulted in riots in France, while multiculturalism pursued in other countries resulted in further isolation of immigrant communities.”

    • Enrique

      From what I heard, Ireland is pursuing a policy of interculturalism and they have had success in it. Ireland appears to be an example where immigration has been done right. You and your family are one of the direct beneficieaies of this policy. I would be interested to know how it works.

  10. Tony Garcia

    “Hannu, in Tampere there are cheap Ryanair flights to Dublin. Go and visit the country and tell us about it.”

    Don’t bother, I’ve been here 4 years and can’t wait to get back there, as soon as this project is done we’ll be back to the “racist” Finland.

    “do you think you would have ever got a chance of getting the same job in Finland.”

    Not really, here I’m a senior engineer but this summer I receive an offer to be an architect, one level higher.

  11. Tony Garcia

    “From what I heard,”

    Well, you heard a lot of things. Last time you heard that the referendum was on minarets AND mosques.

  12. Tony Garcia

    “You and your family are one of the direct beneficieaies of this policy.”

    Nop, wrong again, we are beneficiaries of your own decision to adapt to the Irish society.

    • Enrique

      –Nop, wrong again, we are beneficiaries of your own decision to adapt to the Irish society.

      That is also true but there must be in place a policy in society that permits you to adapt. That policy comes from the government or local boards.

  13. Klay_Immigrant

    -‘Tony my sentence with the one in the NY Times article means the same thing.’

    Enrique you got to be kidding me. So are these sentences the same?

    1. Tinted windows ON cars are banned

    2. Tinted windows AND cars are banned

    The same applies to Minarets on/and Mosques.

    • Enrique

      You are right and my mistake. The referendum banned the building of minarets on mosques.

  14. Klay_Immigrant

    Ireland’s relative recent economic success was a direct result of EU subsidiaries embarked on them. The rise in immigrants is a side product of that economic success. Why do you think Ireland opposed the expansion of the EU in 2004 to Eastern Europe? Because they knew that’s where the money would be heading instead of themselves.

  15. Tony Garcia

    “That is also true but there must be in place a policy in society that permits you to adapt. That policy comes from the government or local boards.”

    Yes, I always agree with you on this. However Finland doesn’t provide such opportunity, if you want to adapt you will do just fine, but some groups never looses the opportunity to loose opportunity.

    • Enrique

      Tony, do you honestly believe that people travel thousands of kilometers just to live off the dole? Don’t you think that the majority would want to make something out of themselves in their new home? The social welfare sector permits the labor market not to integrate/hire immigrants.

  16. xyz

    Yes, I always agree with you on this. However Finland doesn’t provide such opportunity, if you want to adapt you will do just fine, but some groups never looses the opportunity to loose opportunity.
    -My friend is also coming to Ireland. He participated 1 year in this Finnish Intensive Language course offered by the employment office. 2 years he was working for a company sponsored by KELA (600 EUR) but they never gave him a proper contract. He has plenty of years work experience in his field. Now we are already 3 people in Exile here 🙂 Btw. he is not Muslim.

  17. Tony Garcia

    “Don’t you think that the majority would want to make something out of themselves in their new home? ”

    Of course they do, but also they want to make their new home just like the old one…

    • Enrique

      –Of course they do, but also they want to make their new home just like the old one…

      I think we could debate on this issue for a long while. In the first place, just by moving to a new country means that they cannot live like they did before. What you are seeing is a sort of hybrid culture, or being in between two worlds (former home and host culture). In Argentina we have churches from all the faiths as in other parts of the world. Even the Finns had a Seaman’s Church and pastor in Buenos Aires. A lot wanted to live like Finns. Argentina gave them that right.

    • Enrique

      I asked a question why Ireland does not have any anti-immigration parties. Could somebody say somthing about that. Tony, maybe you could point out why this is the case and what the Irish have done right in this respect.

  18. Tony Garcia

    “Argentina allowed them that right.”

    How much damaged Finns living like Finns have brought to Argentina? People are different, cultures are different, outcomes are different, wise policies take this in consideration…

  19. Tony Garcia

    “Tony, maybe you could point out why this is the case and what the Irish have done right in this respect.”

    Don’t actually know, to be honest, but as pointed by the Ministry of Integration Africans and Muslims are not really well seem around here, there are some areas witch it’s better for them not to walk around, just in case…

    But interesting enough Ireland debunks your theory of “it’s all about economical downturn”.

    • Enrique

      –But interesting enough Ireland debunks your theory of “it’s all about economical downturn”.

      Interesting, no? If you ask sociologists about this they will suggest that since different groups compete for scant resources this causes competition and friction. An economic downturn can fuel a lot of different things, like using groups as scapegoats for all our problems.

    • Enrique

      Hi Truth, great to have you on board and comment on different topics and stances. We need debate as a means to go forward.

  20. Tony Garcia

    Enrique, trick situation here, Juan can’t be a racist because he’s black, he can’t be a xenophobic because he’s an immigrant, he can’t be a bigot because what he has been written on the civil rights, what we do?

    We could brand him Islamophobic, but we have done a lot of this lately. How about Uncle Tom? Is that better? Oh, wait, how about if we say that he’s getting money from the Zionists? Better? Don’t quite know, please give me a help here, we need to smear him so we can quick get him out of the way…

    • Enrique

      Tony, there was also sad news from Mälmö in Sweden about a man shooting at immigrants. I am not worried about opinion polls nor do I “digest” them. A lot of things can happen from today to April 2011.

  21. Tony Garcia

    “What does this tell you (the recent polls), Tony, about Finland?”

    I think it’s a protest against the current immigration policy witch is based on quantity rather than quality. Finns have no problems with immigrants in general, they just don’t want some specific groups to set foot in their country. They have seen what has happened to other places.

    • Enrique

      –I think it’s a protest against the current immigration policy witch is based on quantity rather than quality.

      All humans are valuable. I believe that if you give people opportunity they will take the challenge. The whole fuss about immigration is that on one side you have a group of Finns mostly from the anti-immigration True Finns that are trying to capitalize on voters’ fear of “massive (sic!)” immigration and on the other side there are very few immigrants with needed skills moving to Finland. Why this imbalance? I think the answer is pretty clear: there are better countries to find jobs in Europe than in Finland. Moreover, you don’t have to deal with learning a difficult language, a society that has little experience of receiving immigrants never mind labor immigrants, weather, high taxation etc.

      Diversity is a positive factor and can be very innovative at a workplace, for example. There are many companies in the United States that have shown the way in this respect. However, the fear that I see transmitted by certain anti-immigration True Finns is that EVERYTHING that is different should be feared. This type of an attitude is the death knell of Finland’s innovation and development. How can you innovate if you fear the unknown and new?

      You speak of a certain type of immigration, but that type of immigration is minimal. Of the total 15,208 residence permits given last year, ONLY 3,953 were due to work. So, it shows a failure on behalf of Finland to attract people with skills. But be honest: Why would you want to move to a country where discrimination is more the rule than the exception for getting a job and have parties like the True Finns growing in the polls?

      I would have to be pretty dumb to come here on those terms.

  22. Tony Garcia

    “Tony, there was also sad news from Mälmö in Sweden about a man shooting at immigrants.”

    I think this is disgraceful, but we can’t stretch people to the break point and expect nothing will happened. I hope they lock this up guy before good immigrants get hurt.

  23. JusticeDemon

    Ricky

    I’m uncertain as to where your figures come from, and still less clear as to what they mean. 3,953 residence permit applications were lodged at Migri during 2009 with work specified as a justification for the application. It does not follow from this that work was the only, or even the main motivation for the application, and of course not all of these applications were approved. This figure also excludes applications from entrepreneurs (95), even though this category of applicant can only be understood in terms of migration for the purpose of work. It also excludes all applications lodged by residence permit holders (e.g. foreign students) at local police stations and employment offices, and all declarations by EU citizens, their accompanying family members, and long-term resident third-country nationals. A substantial proportion of applications based on the applicant’s biological origin and family ties are also motivated primarily by work.

    Migri statistics have to be interpreted in the context of the underlying legislation and practice. It is important to understand that the reason for issuing a permit is not necessarily the same as the grounds that were specified in the application (indeed an application may be based on a variety of grounds), and that these grounds do not necessarily reflect the motivations of the applicant.

    The figure of 15,208 stands for the total number of residence permits that were issued in 2009. A sizeable proportion of these relate to applications lodged in 2008 or even earlier in some cases.

    • Enrique

      Thank you JusticeDemon for the clarification. Isn’t odd, however, that they are so complex to understand and what they imply. Even so, can we make the case that labor immigration is still a small factor in the overall immigration picture in Finland?

  24. JusticeDemon

    Ricky

    It’s hard to gauge the scale of immigration for employment, as this depends on an outdated classification system that tries to compartmentalise immigrants acting for a wide variety of motives under a broad range of individual circumstances.

    Only a very small fraction of residence permit holders are not allowed to work, and even asylum seekers gain the right to work after they have been in Finland for three months. There are also several specialist occupations for which no permit is required at all for work of short duration.

    International families will usually seek to make their homes in the country where the higher-earning spouse has the best job prospects, so work is generally also a factor in issuing residence permits for family reasons.

    Foreign students in higher education are permitted to work for an average of 25 hours per week during the academic term, and full-time during the academic vacation. This amounts to permission to take continuous full-time work in some occupations such as teaching and translating, although there is also a requirement to show academic progress in the course of studies. The threshold for prosecuting the associated offence is also rather high, even in lines of work such as cleaning where the hours of work must be clearly scheduled and form the basis for remuneration.

    To give an example of the compartmentalisation problem, imagine the case of an Australian teenage computer games programmer who happens to have two Finnish grandparents but cannot find Finland on a map of northern Europe. This teenager strikes up a serious relationship with a Finnish exchange student. Each of them then applies to study at higher education institutions in the other’s home city. The Australian is successful and gets a residence permit to study in Finland, but has no intention of taking out a large student loan. On arriving in Finland the Australian heads for the nearest software houses, negotiates with them, and eventually signs an employment contract for a nominal 25 hours a week in return for a basic salary of, say, 1.5 times the national average for full-time work plus commission based on license fee revenues from any game components created.

    As far as the Finnish immigration system is concerned, this individual can be classified under various headings, none of which would adequately reflect the essential facts of the case. The individual could also flip between various residence permit types and categories. This is an extreme example of the compartmentalisation problem that arises from the attempt to fit a rigid administrative system onto the infinite flexibility of the real world.

  25. Tony Garcia

    Enrique, you asked what Brazilians think about Muslims, well as I said this is a satirical program from our biggest broadcast usuall. You may not understand what they are talking but I’m sure you’ll get our opinion about Muslims in general and how we deal with political correctness.

    PS. We know you won’t find it funny…

  26. Klay_Immigrant

    Very funny Tony, especially the guy’s face when shouting help! (I think that was what he was saying).

    In Britain there was a similar program in the late 70’s that played on country’s stereotypes for comedic value. The show was called ‘Mind your language’ and was popular. Too bad these type of shows cannot be shown now due to political correctness and hyper sensitivity.

  27. Tony Garcia

    Hi Klay, This is an “advertisement” for a new university the “UNIBURKA”. So if you are a nerd who is afraid of hot girls, UNIBURKA is for you…

    It really makes laugh when Enrique try to teach me the Brazilian way, witch is, by the way, just the same then the Argentinean way, for us down there take the piss is our way of life. Blacks, whites, gays, Christians, Portuguese, politicians, and most recently Muslims, all are a valid target.

    PS. Do you think a Muslims would “blow himself up” if got to close to that blond?

  28. Tony Garcia

    This is another one, it’s called “no cafofo do Obama” (cafofo is a slang word for slum). It shows Obama in his “cafofo” besides the white house, Michele dressed as maid and their cousin Bin-Laden.

    It’s based on our old saying “quen nace pra tostao nunca chega a milhao” (Who was born for cent never gets to be million)

    This is broadcasted by our biggest TV station on prime-time, so klay, you can easily see how Enrique knows the Brazilian way to see things.

    • Enrique

      Do you see anything wrong with these types of things you are posting? Or is it all a matter of “freedom of speech” and you do not care anything about your own issues with people from other cultures. I personally am not impressed.

  29. Tony Garcia

    “I personally am not impressed.”

    and this is a surprise because???? Someone show a program mocking white conservative Christians and you will give it a stand ovation.

    Anyway… Personally I never watched that program much, it’s a popular program and people from middle-upper class don’t really bother with it. Amazingly enough it’s made for and watched by the very same people you believe it offends. As I said before, for a journalist, your perception of human nature is… interesting…

    So, why post it? Two reasons.

    1- You asked what Brazilians think about Muslims, well, there you go, we think they are a bunch of weirdoes terrorists. Disappointed with the answer? Well, that takes us to the second reason.

    2 – You insist in teach me the Brazilian way to see things, maybe you should learn it before teach me. And just for the record, the Argentinean way is not different…

    • Enrique

      –You asked what Brazilians think about Muslims, well, there you go, we think they are a bunch of weirdoes terrorists. Disappointed with the answer? Well, that takes us to the second reason.

      You have little understanding of your history and the role the Syrian-Lebanese had in immigrating to Brazil. There was also a very big group of them that went to Argentina. One of the former presidents, Carlos Menen, came from such immigrants.

      I have never insisted on anything. I just think it is kind of odd, in my opinion, that a Brazilian has such strong views on a certain group. These are societies comprised of many ethnicities. Latin American socieites, apart from racism against Bolivians and other groups, are also divided by endemic social inequality. Some emigrate and move elsewhere. Those that were lucky to get an education and make something out of their lives should use their wealth to help others not put them down. I don’t know what you think, but that is the education I got and am very proud of having received.

  30. Tony Garcia

    “You have little understanding of your history and the role the Syrian-Lebanese had in immigrating to Brazil. ”

    You are the one who have no idea. Arnaldo Jabor, in my opinion one of the greatest journalist in our history. Arabic decadence? Yes. Muslim? No.

    “These are societies comprised of many ethnicities.”

    This is your problem, you always mix race with culture, that clouds your perception.

    Most Arabic who migrated to Brazil (or they decedents for that matter) are today either Christians or nothing, actually most nothing, and only speaking Portuguese, not Arabic.

    The difference is on that time there were no multiculturalists tell them to be whatever they wanted to be. You either adapt and integrate or go to live on the streets. They wisely decided for the first. Your ideology is harming not only Europe but also many immigrants who would easily give up some of their culture in order to adapt and have a nice life with their families, the so called two way road, unfortunately many are listening to the multicultural left and are ending-up in ghettos.

    I think that bring us the old discussion – legal versus wise, multiculturalism versus adaptation…

    • Enrique

      –Your ideology is harming not only Europe but also many immigrants who would easily give up some of their culture in order to adapt and have a nice life with their families, the so called two way road, unfortunately many are listening to the multicultural left and are ending-up in ghettos.

      My ideology. What is my ideology? That I believe in equal opportunity and that the laws of our land should APPLY to everyone? Is that what you call a multiculturalist. I have never, ever, said what I am. I have given you some tools to see what multiculturalism is. Let me spell out what my ideology is: The laws such as equality and the right to one’s heritage should be defended and promoted by the state. This is nothing new because it is already written in the laws. We have people in parties like the True Finns who have no idea about immigration but look for votes by bashing and parading like some authorities on the topic. They are definitely not. Jyrki Kaatainen, the head of Kokoomus, had the courage to stand up to populism when he denounced it as short-sighted.

      You did not answer the question, as many brought before you by bloggers like JusticeDemon. I will ask it again: Who is James Hirvisaari? Is he somewhat-anti-immigration as well?

  31. Tony Garcia

    “…and the right to one’s heritage should be defended and promoted by the state.”

    Well… it all depends on how this heritage says you should behave. If it says that your should discriminate against women or mutilate your daughter, I think the state should say – not here mate…

    My point has always been very simple: legal/wise, do whatever you think you are allowed to but face the consequences. I, to be honest, have no sympathy whatsoever. If they like so much to live in ghettos, so be it. But after next election things may change… just a bit…

    “You did not answer the question”

    Yes, I did. I don’t know him enough to say if he is against some immigration or all. I know that Halla-aho and the True-Finns, as a political party, are only against some immigration.

    “We have people in parties like the True Finns who have no idea about immigration”

    Well according to you not only them but the government of France, Germany, Holland, Denmark, Italy, Greece, etc. As I said you should send your application.

    • Enrique

      –Well… it all depends on how this heritage says you should behave.

      I don’t think you have any say on this. But let’s look at your heritage: You commonly accuse Muslims of everything under the sun, post a joke about them and on top of this you demand that they must conform to your world… Honestly, is that the way you lead?

      –If they like so much to live in ghettos, so be it. But after next election things may change… just a bit…

      The ghettos won’t go away as long as their is inequality and narrow-mindedness. Brazil is not an example of assimilation. Check out the social inequality. Is that the Brazilian model of assimilation. And why do you guys have favelas if you use the assimilation model?

      You don’t read closely what I write. I pointed out that governments and politicians are opportunistic and short-sighted. Many don’t have any idea of what the dynamics of immigration nor do don’t want to acknowledge it whenever elections are close. Those like some True Finns that are demanding immigrants to conform to measures that they would never dare impose on themselves or their voters tell me one thing: populism a la grande. Many of these people are products of the social welfare system and therefore have never seen what real suffering is like.

    • Enrique

      James Hirvisaari is one of the worst of the worst anti-immigration True Finns candidate that I have seen. Apart from not being able to write himself out of a paper bag, he is constantly bashing Muslims and protecting our “children and women” from immigrants. JusticeDemon, see how he makes his point on how Finnish taxpayers are being shortchanged by clicking this link.
      He is one of many sad cases of politicians using the anti-immigration cards to get votes.

  32. Tony Garcia

    I won’t defend or accuse him just because I don’t know him enough and after seeing Enrique burning his fingers so many times I’ll wait before make any judgment.

    However…

    “Apart from not being able to write himself out of a paper bag,”

    Personal attach, that usually tells me something…

    “he is constantly bashing Muslims ”

    It doesn’t make him against all immigrants, just some…

    “protecting our “children and women” from immigrants.”

    immigrants or some immigrants. We need to be carful with translations coming from this blog, sometimes it gets a bit mixed up.

    “see how he makes his point”

    Using government numbers. Yep your are right, not a good way to base your accusations on, best way is use secret sources…

    Anyway, I’ll read what he has to say and send him a mail, if he’s in fact against all immigration I’ll have no problem to say this here in this very same blog.

    • Enrique

      Hirvisaari is a perfect example of Islamophobia but he then hides his loathing by stating the following about Muslims: “Ilman muuta on suojeltava ennen kaikkea oman kansamme naisia ja lapsia. Mutta sen lisäksi on varjeltava mm sananvapautta, tasa-arvoa, demokratiaa, ihmisoikeuksia ja uskonnonvapautta.”

      If you can read this sentence, it is a model example of a snow job in the major leagues, ie double-talk. He bashes Muslims on the one hand, encouraging us to hate them, and then he rambles on about freedom of speech democracy and human rights.

  33. Tony Garcia

    “I don’t think you have any say on this.”

    Nop, I don’t, nether do you, it’s up to the Finnish society to say what they accept and what they don’t. That’s why the election is so important.

    “Brazil is not an example of assimilation.”

    First you use it as example, then it’s not an example anymore, could you please make your mind?

    “And why do you guys have favelas if you use the assimilation model?”

    Since when there are immigrants in favelas? Have you notice how much wrong you been about Brazil recently? You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. In favelas there are only blacks and mixed, all coming from the slavery time, we can talk about this but, please don’t mix the subjects. In my country immigrants (most Europeans and some Asians) and descendents are doing very well, we are in the middle-upper classes.

    “You don’t read closely what I write.”

    I do, very closely, look what you just wrote again…

    “Many don’t have any idea of what the dynamics of immigration ”

    Governments of France and Germany can’t find professionals competent to help them on immigration?

    “True Finns that are demanding immigrants to conform to measures that they would never dare impose on themselves ”

    Care to give some examples, please?

    • Enrique

      –“True Finns that are demanding immigrants to conform to measures that they would never dare impose on themselves ”

      The Nuiva Manifest. Did you ever read it? They don’t have an English-langauge version.

    • Enrique

      –Since when there are immigrants in favelas?

      All of them have immigrant backgrounds. For some reason, they didn’t strike it rich in Brazil and ended up in a favela. It must be laziness, right? Even the blacks were brought from Africa. How come they didn’t assimilate?

    • Enrique

      –In my country immigrants (most Europeans and some Asians) and descendents are doing very well, we are in the middle-upper classes.

      In your country there are also Amerindians as well as Bolivian and Paraguayan immigrants. How are they doing? In Argentina they are not doing so well. There is a lot of open discrimination against these type of people.

  34. Tony Garcia

    Again not defending him, because I don’t know but…

    “a perfect example of Islmaophobia”

    First, that usually says that you dead right. Second still not all immigration but some…

    He talks about “freedom of speech, equality, democracy, human rights and religious freedom.”

    Enrique, now you want us to believe that Muslims are not against those values. In witch parallel universe?

    • Enrique

      –Enrique, now you want us to believe that Muslims are not against those values. In witch parallel universe?

      The main issue is that they are in countries where there are these human and civil rights. We cannot have a system where there are one set of rules for one group and another group. Do you really think that all Muslims practise the things he and you claim? I could also go on the rampage in Saudi Arabia, write a blog, and accuse the West of being decadent, that our societies full of paedophiles, drunkards, drug addicts, atheists, rapists, murderers etc. In all societies there are good and bad things. Societies are not perfect, which means that they change.

      This is another thing that does not convince me: People who speak out against limiting rights of other groups but claim to back the values of our liberal democracy. It just doesn’t not match up. In a society comprising of many cultures there must be first and foremost (1) acceptance and (2) equal opportunity. Have these two in place and a lot of the problems facing our society will vanish.

      As you know, another matter that worries me is how our society is becoming polarized due to cultural/ethnic differences. Instead of finding strength in our diversity we are throwing mud. We had a good whiff of this type of situation back in the 1930s as well as in the former Yugoslavia. You cannot force anyone to do anything. As a good manager you know that you have to inspire by example not set down rules that don’t work or work for a dear few. Use the model that works best is what I would recommend. That model, in my opinion, includes equal opportunity and diversity but with a strong sense of “us” as opposed to “them.” That is why it is important to teach children to respect other cultures. Or do you want them to grow up in the present way as one good friend said: “The second generation is different from the first because they grew up seeing how their parents were exploited and pushed around.”

  35. Tony Garcia

    “It must be laziness, right? Even the blacks were brought from Africa. How come they didn’t assimilate?”

    You have no idea what you’re talking about. After the end of the slavery the Europeans decided to give the jobs to their “relatives” starving in Europe. It has nothing to do with assimilation but racism and pressure from European governments, most Africans were second or even third generation.

    That time there were no multiculturalists “fighting on behalf their cultural heritage”, they assimilated very well. The only thing they were allowed to keep was they religion, but even that with limits. Have they had a chance, today they would not been in favelas.

    We had a big waive of immigration during the second war and it has been very successful, mostly because we received good immigrants (Europeans and Japanese) and they all had to assimilate or else. Well, they did and their offspring, like myself, enjoyed a very nice and comfortable life.

    I keep saying this here over and over, you adapt and assimilate you do well, you don’t… good luck…

    • Enrique

      –I keep saying this here over and over, you adapt and assimilate you do well, you don’t… good luck…

      What about if you adapt and then let the rest happen? Isn’t adaption a sort of integration but not assimilation.

  36. Tony Garcia

    “In your country there are also Amerindians as well as Bolivian and Paraguayan immigrants. How are they doing?”

    We have many Latinos from all Latin America, some are doing very well some not so, but mostly for two reasons: some are illegal, so they are exploited by employers. Some don’t have education, so they have the same type of job than uneducated Brazilians have.

    However I must admit, in Sao Paulo we mostly have the legal well educated Latinos living in, the uneducated or illegal are usually in the states close to their countries (you do know the size of Brazil), so my knowledge about how they do and and why is quite limited.

  37. Tony Garcia

    “Isn’t adaption a sort of integration but not assimilation.”

    I think that pretty much depends on where you come from. I can tell you that Argentineans going to Brazil don’t need either adaptation or assimilation, our culture is so similar that you just need to go, and that’s it, you don’t even need to learn Portuguese, you Spanish in there do just fine. But in some cases the difference is a canyon, and there is where the problems starts…

  38. JusticeDemon

    Assimilation, Tony, is when you come to live next door to me, start using my name instead of yours, start speaking my language exclusively to your children, stop speaking any other language in public places, teach your children to despise their grandparents as uncivilised savages for not doing likewise, and avoid all involvement in political or progressive activities for fear of offending the narrow-minded.

    Integration is when you come to live next door to me, keep your name and help me to learn how to write and pronounce it, learn to write and pronounce my name, raise your children to be at least functionally bilingual, speak your native language with no self-consciousness and with the full acceptance of everyone around you in public places as and when this is the most effective vehicle of communication, ensure that your children retain their cultural and familial ties to your parents, and offer the benefits of your unique cultural perspective, value judgements and experience on the political and practical issues of the day, regardless of efforts by the narrow-minded to silence you.

    • Enrique

      Thank you, JusticeDemon, from making this point. It is the same thing with the word multiculturalism. They use it without really knowing what it means. Do you know what Tony’s definition of the word is? I am totally in the dark.

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