Finland: A taste of one’s medicine

by , under All categories, Enrique

Can an immigration policy of country take us on the right societal path if it hinges on suspicion of other groups? With the April 2011 elections nearing, some are asking if a big election victory for the anti-immigration True Finns will take us down the same questionable path as Denmark, which has the tightest immigration controls in the European Union.

Does Finland have the potential of turning into a Denmark? Wandering down such a path would be a perilous mistake because basing an immigration policy solely to exclude one group would lay down the foundations for failure.

In many respects the rise of xenophobia in Finland is self-inflicted. While great improvements have been made in teaching and accepting cultural diversity at schools, racist views of other cultures and ethnic groups still prevail because they were/are actively promoted.

This picture (apologies for the racist content) which was used before in books to teach children to  claims: The Negro washes his face but it does not whiten at all.

There are many sad examples of how racist ideas have entered the minds of Finns from the backdoor. Here is an excerpt from a book on “European races”* published in 1929 by Professor Rolf Nordenstreng:

You cannot expect exceptional children from a Gypsy horse thief and a light-minded Negro wife; but I have heard that French fur traders, who were excellent men that took as wives the Indian chiefs’ daughters, bred splendid children…*

Unfortunately, too many in Finland and Europe still see other cultures with the help of antiquated and racist concepts taught not too long ago. If we do not study today directly Nordenstreng or one of the eugenics master minds of Nazi racial policy, Eugen Fischer, their ludicrous claims of “different races” still live deep inside some of us.

Education, therefore, has to and must play a key role in how we model new Finns irrespective of their background to be the defenders of our values.  If we do not face racism and grab it by the horns, our xenophobia will always be self-inflicted and destructive.

_______

* Rolf Nordenstreng: “Euroopan ihmisrodut ja kansat.” Kustannusosakeyhtiö Kirja. Helsinki 1929. p. 48. The original Finnish text reads: Mustalainen hevosvarkaan ja heikkomielisen neekerivaimon lapsista ei voi odottaa juuri erinomiaisia; mutta olen kuullut sanottavan, että ranskalaiset turkismetsästäjät, jotka olivat oivia poikia ja ottivat vaimoikseen intiaanipäälliköiden tyttäriä, saivat mainioita jälkeläisiä.

  1. Tiwaz

    -“Education, therefore, has to and must play a key role in how we model new Finns irrespective of their background to be the defenders of our values. If we do not face racism and grab it by the horns, our xenophobia will always be self-inflicted and destructive.”

    I agree, you foreigners have to accept that you are xenophobic racists towards us native Finns and must change.

    For once you Enrique said something which is true.

    Now, since you again love beating Finns over something that is about 100 or so years old, how about showing what kind of schoolbooks OTHER nations had at the time hmm?

    Those books have content which would make the Finnish poem pale in comparison. Same with variety of other laws.

    But Enriqe here is not honest person, which we have known already. He is prepared to pretend that rest of the world is multicultural, harmonious happyland and only Finland is evil because Finns are evil.

    Reality that attempts for multiculturalism abroad the world have repeatedly failed and caused more problems than they solve eludes him, or he eludes those facts. One or another.

    • Enrique

      –I agree, you foreigners have to accept that you are xenophobic racists towards us native Finns and must change.

      This allegation is interesting and in bad taste. What you are in effect doing is “neutralizing” the racism of the majority on a minority by ludicrously calling the victims racists. It is similar to calling Jews in concentration camps SS officers. Nice try, Tiwaz, but go back to the drawing board.

    • Enrique

      –“Now, since you again love beating Finns over something that is about 100 or so years old, how about showing what kind of schoolbooks OTHER nations had at the time hmm?”

      It is shameful in any nation.

  2. JusticeDemon

    Racist stereotyping in schoolbooks is wrong. It is in no way and to no degree justified in Finland because it also occurred elsewhere. There are people still living in Finland who were exposed to this material in their formative years, and is at least one factor that underlies modern racist attitudes and the attitude that acknowledged racism in the living past is no longer relevant.

    It is to Finland’s credit that such stereotyping is now quite rare in official contexts. The only even comparatively recent example that I can think of was Claes Anderson’s offhand remark some years ago that a modern immigrant is no Bantu. When I challenged him on his choice of expression he immediately apologised and described this as a munaus. Twenty years earlier he might have tried to argue that this was a perfectly innocent expression (as with the famous neekeri debate). Such is progress, and it is again to Finland’s credit that this progress has been swift since the problem of racist stereotyping in language was acknowledged.

  3. Tiwaz

    Tuomas:-“Or how about not, since this is a blog about Finnish society after all. :)”

    Or how about we do, because omitting relevant facts like that such books were dime for dozen EVERYWHERE during those days is equal to lying.

    Enrique did no effort to educate people who did not already know about all this of the fact that such material was globally extremely widespread and at the time seen as perfectly fine.

    Yes, today our standards have differed, but at that time standards were such and as such starting to bash Finns for it, leaving any information on global situation away, is sickeningly dishonest.

    Enrique:

    -“It is shameful in any nation.”

    So why I never see you mention any other nation but single out Finland and seek to give impression that it is somehow unique to Finland?

    Why you refuse in your blog to represent true spirit of honesty and give wider context to issue?

    Oh yes, because it would eat away the efficiency of Finn-bashing!

    -“This allegation is interesting and in bad taste. What you are in effect doing is “neutralizing” the racism of the majority on a minority by ludicrously calling the victims racists. It is similar to calling Jews in concentration camps SS officers. Nice try, Tiwaz, but go back to the drawing board.”

    Ah, and here is Enrique again. Incapable of defending his position with facts he resorts, once more, to Nazi card.

    I’ll pull one better. Did you watch TV yesterday? TV viisi had program on domestic violence. Let me guess, right now you imagine poor women being beaten up…

    No, program was about WOMEN assaulting their husbands. And specially about fact that whole system is built to be bigoted against men.

    Law was that men could not be victims of domestic violence.
    Male was presumed guilty in every case of domestic violence.
    Female would be granted custody of children despite evidence that she is less fit parent.
    No support groups for male victims of domestic violence.

    All this rings true with your attitudes. Immigrants can do no wrong, they are ALWAYS the victims.

    WAKE UP! Immigrants are just as racist as Finns. Actually more, because you racists come here to home of someone else and start demanding that they do things your way. And when native says they will not appease your ass you scream racism!

    Do you have any proven, objective study on how many foreigners are victims of proven racism Enrique?

    • Enrique

      –Oh yes, because it would eat away the efficiency of Finn-bashing!

      You have been around this blog for a very long time. You should know that I am not into nationalities. Finland is my home and that is why I prefer to write a lot on it. The reason for the last post on Finland’s own medicine was to study where racism could derive from. You once said that if you invite a Somali to your home, it was an invitation to be raped. Where did you get that information? You were taught by someone.

    • Enrique

      –All this rings true with your attitudes. Immigrants can do no wrong, they are ALWAYS the victims.

      Tiwaz, here you go again with the Jew-in-the-concentration-camp-is-the-SS-officer example. I never said that immigrants are ALWAYS right. What you are trying to do, however, is minimize racism by labelling its victims racists. It is as simple as that.

  4. Tony Garcia

    Sorry Enrique, can I ask something totally not related to this article? What do you think about the election in Venezuela? Do you think Chaves will start to get week and loose influence in LA? And for your countries, is that good or bad? I think our democracy is quite fragile and fear for it.

    • Enrique

      Hi Tony and thank you for the question. Chavez’ political and economic problems at home have undermined his initial geopolitical clout in Latin America. Brazil has distanced itself from Chavez but Argentina continues to be a firm supporter because he buys Argentinean debt. His staunchest supporters, Bolivia, Ecuador and Nicaragua, continue to back him. Take a look at some of the energy projects Venezuela’s PDVSA was involved with. It’s less than before. I personally don’t like Chavez’ approach by making inflamatory statements that create more bad blood than anything else.

  5. Tony Garcia

    So racism again… You just can’t help it, can you? And to prove it without a doubt you use books published in 1929. That proves it alright, doesn’t ?

    Sorry but today racism is a political tool for the left and an excuse for failed minorities. That’s my opinion…

    • Enrique

      –Sorry but today racism is a political tool for the left and an excuse for failed minorities. That’s my opinion

      So racism is made up? I firmly believe that our history says a lot about who we are today. That is why I mentioned Nordenstreng’s book.

  6. Klay_Immigrant

    JusticeDemon

    You wanted proof that immigrants are overrepresented in crime, here you go. Read, learn, pull your head out of your ass and wake up. Stop making laughable excuses for immigrant criminals like self-defence and weighted demographic comparisons (important but still doesn’t change the conclusion). I never knew rape was a way for a man to defend himself against a lady.

    Finland:

    ‘People of foreign background over-represented in Helsinki violent crime figures’

    ‘Of the cases of rape that have come to the attention of the Helsinki Police Department in the current decade, in 40% of cases the suspected perpetrator has been of foreign extraction. In the case of muggings and extortion the figure has been around one-third.’

    http://www.hs.fi/english/article/People+of+foreign+background+over-represented+in+Helsinki+violent+crime+figures+/1135233972556

    Netherlands:

    ‘Rotterdam: Immigrant groups overrepresented in crime’

    ‘Of the Moroccan-Dutch boys in Rotterdam aged 18 to 24, almost 55% have gotten in trouble with the police on suspicion of offenses. For Antilleans and Surinamese that’s 40%, for Turkish-Dutch men 36% and for ethnic Dutch Rotterdam residents 18.4%.’

    http://europenews.dk/en/node/23669

    Sweden:

    ‘Immigrants behind 25% of Swedish crime’

    ‘Immigrants in Sweden are four times more likely to be investigated for lethal violence and robbery than persons born in Sweden to Swedish parents, the National Council for Crime Prevention’

    ‘In a report studying 4.4 million Swedes between the ages of 15 and 51 during the period 1997-2001, the council found that immigrants were overrepresented in Sweden’s crime statistics.’

    ‘Immigrants were also three times more likely to be investigated for assault and five times more likely to be investigated for sex crimes.’

    http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=2683&date=20051214

    Denmark:

    ‘Alarmed at last week’s police statistics, which revealed that in 68% of all rapes committed this year the perpetrator was from an ethnic minority, leading Muslim organisations have now formed an alliance to fight the ever-growing problem of young second and third-generation immigrants involved in rape cases against young Danish girls.’

    http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/02/muslim-rape-epidemic-in-sweden-and.html

    I can go on and on for each European country but I think you get the picture. If not then your in serious denial, delusional, and your next stop should be the nearest psychologist’s office.

    • Enrique

      Hey Klay, one of the beauties of this blog is that we can allow our bloods to boil but we do not throw jabs at others. You can kick and bitch as much as you want here, but please refrain from insulting the person. Thank you.

    • Enrique

      Klay, please there is a difference: conviction and suspected/alleged. I think this is an important point to make because far-right groups love to point this out. Did you know that in Finland some 50,000 rape cases were not reported, according to the police. These were made by Finns. Moreover, many of the alleged rape crimes were made in Finland by Swedish tourists, Russians, and Estonians. Certainly if there is more convicted crimes reported for a certain group we have to look at the casues and deal with the problem. But please don’t go around pointing that the majorty of immigrants from certain countries become, as JusticeDemon pointed out, become rapists as soon as they cross the border.

  7. JusticeDemon

    Klay

    I was searching for any reference to conviction rates in your references. There are none at all. The distinction between suspicion and conviction matters to me, as I don’t have a police State mentality and I understand what it means in practical policing to classify someone as a suspect, even in the Swedish CJS.

    The HS article patently fails to justify its headline for the very reasons that we have previously discussed.

    The article from Sweden seems entirely unaware of the demographic effect, and the remark about the distinction between suspicion and conviction implies that there is only ever one suspect for each and every offence, and that the suspect in question is always convicted. Even using the term suspect in the sense preferred by Brå, this is wildly optimistic.

    The Fjördman blog is hardly a reputable source (try citing such an authority in your PhD thesis and see what happens). The same applies to the self-styled EuropeNews. Did you notice that its translator seeks to remain anonymous? You might as well quote yourself as an authority.

    As I indicated before, this debate was played out in the Swedish media back in the 1970s because of an alleged criminality of Finns in Sweden. The same could be said of Irish migrant workers in England in the 19th century (check out the origin of the word hooligan).

  8. Tony Garcia

    “Klay, please there is a difference: conviction and suspected/alleged.”

    well Enrique,you didn’t see this difference when talking about the arson attach, did you?

  9. Tony Garcia

    And talking about school…

    http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2010/09/immigrant_youth_more_likely_to_miss_out_on_school_2009534.html

    I really hate when Finnish media talk about immigrants. This article is not lying but say that immigrants miss out school doesn’t show the reality. I know many immigrants who are doing very well in school.

    The question one should be asking about this article is – With group of immigrants can’t do well in Finnish schools?

    However something is interesting here, every time YLE reports problems related to immigrants it puts a picture with a man with dark skin or a woman wearing a head scarf. So is that a way to, somehow, answer the question?

    • Enrique

      –The question one should be asking about this article is – With group of immigrants can’t do well in Finnish schools?

      I don’t know if you can find a tendency. However, why would you want to know?

  10. Tony Garcia

    And talking about school…

    In the town we live there are two national primary schools. The one where my children goes is a protestant school patronized by a group of churches. For being a member in the church council I could arrange to be the church’s representative and I have had a chair in the school’s board for the last 3 years, I also got to know the school’s principal very well.

    Anyway our school is what one can call a “mono” school. Mono-faith, mono-ethnic and proudly mono-cultural, but we do have immigrants, some from Europe and some from US. We don’t celebrate diversity but the strength of our Judeo-Christian traditions, and this is very well enforced by our principal. From the teacher’s recruitment, dressing code, book selections, extra-curriculum activities, and particularly the pupil’s admission, everything is hand-pick.

    The other school in town is proudly multi-everything, of course.

    Now with schools do you think has the best academic results and a huge waiting list?

  11. Tony Garcia

    Sorry what It’s got to do with the fact that you behave in one way when talking about immigrants and another when talking about Finns?

    I’m a bit lost..

  12. Hannu

    “Did you know that in Finland some 50,000 rape cases were not reported, according to the police.”

    Source?

    justicedemon you may want to read this http://hommaforum.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33790.0;attach=7308

    Ryhmä ulkomailla syntyneet kästti 14 prosenttia Ruotsin väestöstä. Tarkastetut raiskaustuomiot
    vuodelta 2009 osoittavat yliedustuksen siten että niinkin suuri osuus kuin 48 % raiskaajista olivat
    syntyneet ulkomailla. (Tämä tarkoittaa kasvua verrattuna vuoden 2005 tietoihin (11.), mikä viittaisi että
    ilmiö on kasvussa.) Kategoriassa törkeä raiskaus liku oli niinkin korkea kuin 64 %. Tässä selvityksessä ei
    ole ollut mahdollista tutkia tilannetta koskien toisen sukupolven siirtolaisia, mutta perustuen BRÅ:n
    raporttien mittakaavoihin ja tarkastelemalla raiskaajien nimiä arvioidaan että noin 2/3 kaikista
    raiskauksista Ruotsissa tekijät ovat joko ensimmäisen tai toisen sukupolven siirtolaisia.

  13. JusticeDemon

    So you are selective and receive private funds in addition to a capitation allowance? How do you match up as regards average parental income?

    Everything is controlled? Is there a copy of Dawkins’ 2006 bestseller in the school library? How about the Catholic Catechism?

  14. Tony Garcia

    “However, why would you want to know?”

    Because otherwise we’ll be generalizing, a practice you are very against. And for me, an immigrant, saying that immigrants fail is very offensive and totally untrue. Some group of immigrants fails, not all…

    I know I don’t what to know because it’d be very inconvenient.

    • Enrique

      –Because otherwise we’ll be generalizing, a practice you are very against. And for me, an immigrant, saying that immigrants fail is very offensive and totally untrue.

      Is this why you have been so critical of a certain group? That they give a bad name for all of us immigrants? If so, don’t you think that you are fuelling that “bad name” by attacking them? I really think that in all groups there are all types. Some adapt better than others. Why some don’t should be studied to help them excel in their society. I have to agree with JusticeDemon. Being an immigrant, you too must agree: This group rocks because they are a very ambitious.

  15. Tony Garcia

    That’s what I’m talking about…

    “But please don’t go around pointing that the majorty of immigrants from certain countries become, as JusticeDemon pointed out, become rapists as soon as they cross the border.”

    They don’t become when they cross the border, for them rape is acceptable depending on the case. According to the Islamic law any woman whose dressing code is not Islamic compliant is a lawful target.

    I don’t agree with that, neither do you or the Finns, but they do…

  16. JusticeDemon

    The most interesting thing about that report, Hannu, is that they translated it into Finnish.

    I think the subject is a highly complex social phenomenon that is not well served by the standard of analysis provided in redtop media. That report is an exercise in polemics, when what we really need is a properly impartial sociological study.

  17. JusticeDemon

    Tony – WHAT Islamic law are you talking about? Islamic law is written law, so I expect you to provide a reference.

    That was simply libellous.

  18. xyz

    Anyway our school is what one can call a “mono” school. Mono-faith, mono-ethnic and proudly mono-cultural. Now with schools do you think has the best academic results and a huge waiting list?

    This is a requirement in a job description of a leading IT company:
    “Excellent interpersonal communication skills, ability to work well in a team environment and to establish cross-group and cross-discipline collaboration with colleagues around the world”

  19. Tony Garcia

    I’ve been meditating a bit about the latest revelation brought up here about rape. First I’d like to point out the way the words have been carefully chosen. We have rape crimes COMMITTED by Finns and rape crimes ALLEGED committed by foreigners, interesting isn’t?

    Oh well… Anyway… I’ve been researching a bit but haven’t found much info from Finland but did find, from Swedish The Local, some about Sweden. In there most of the rape reports are what they called “forced sexual intercourse”. It’s committed, in many cases, by boyfriends and even husband. There is also the “post consent regret” with is the case where the girl was too drunk, went even to the bed, then sober up a bit and tried to call off the fun.

    Make no mistake, it’s all crime punished by law. However it’s not as nearly violent, traumatizing or aggressive than the ambush rape, or as some call it – sexual jihad, committed by young Muslims across Europe.

    Once, for the sake of our debate, this has been clarified, I’ll quote a journalist living in Finland…

    “Murder is a more serious crime than battery.”

    • Enrique

      –We have rape crimes COMMITTED by Finns and rape crimes ALLEGED committed by foreigners, interesting isn’t?

      I think the police thinks that they go unreported so it suggests committed. I really think that if you are a member of a certain religious group there is a greater chance that anything you do will be magnified many times than compared with a Finn. If you make a mistake it is a bigger thing because you are not a native. So, if you want to study the problem, you have to look at this things as well.

      In sum, it is better to look at sentenced cases.

      –Make no mistake, it’s all crime punished by law.

      True Tony, but we have the let the law sentence people not public opinion.

  20. Tony Garcia

    “That they give a bad name for all of us immigrants?”

    Not only that, but also are a burden to our system.

    “I really think that in all groups there are all types.”

    in some groups you find far more bad types than others.

    “Some adapt better than others.”

    Exactly, and some don’t adapt at all.

    “Being an immigrant, you too must agree: This group rocks because they are a very ambitious.”

    It’s all boils down to what their ambitious are…

    • Enrique

      –Not only that, but also are a burden to our system.

      That is debatable and from which perspective you look at it. Not all are unemployed, which means that they do contribute. Also the unemployed purchase services, which keep other people employed.

      –Exactly, and some don’t adapt at all.

      If they didn’t adapt they would be in an asylum. They do adapt and probably the best to their abilities in some cases.

  21. Tony Garcia

    http://media.blubrry.com/datelinewashington/www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.radioamerica.org/loudwater/wnd_news/000004022_000_000000013.mp3

    “In every and single city across the West we see the rise of this army with begun by few dozens, now it’s in the high hundreds, and soon to be as we see in Europe the networks are to be probably up to the thousands.”

    “We waste many years not to look at the threat as real, not to understand that it has an ideology.”

    “It’s growing very fast, in America with is the least impacted so far compared to Europe, we have seen a very rapidly growth of this type of cells. Between 01 and 08 the government stopped 1.5 case a year. Between yearly 08, 09 and now we are stopping one case of jihadist preparation a month. In Europe the numbers are even more concerning because they have now melted with what some experts call Islamist movements.”

    “Europe is really facing a more dramatic situation.”

    “Now the pressing emergency is in African, in Mali, Mauritania and Somalia” (Surprise!!!)

    !!! So important that it needs be quoted again !!!

    “We waste many years not to look at the threat as real”

  22. Tony Garcia

    “That is debatable and from which perspective you look at it…Also the unemployed purchase services, which keep other people employed.”

    For both comments a simple answer, they take more that they give…

    “Not all are unemployed”

    In some groups, most of it.

    “They do adapt…”

    ??????

    “…the best to their abilities in some cases.”

    For 21st century Finland? not good enough.

    “In sum, it is better to look at sentenced cases.”

    Why did you quote the rape by Finns with hasn’t even been reported, let alone sentenced?

    “I really think that if you are a member of a certain religious group there is a greater chance that anything you do will be magnified many times than compared with a Finn. If you make a mistake it is a bigger thing because you are not a native.”

    What surprises me is not the fact that you say these things, but I think you honestly believe in it.

    • Enrique

      Hannu, thank you for this but quit being so lazy and throwing a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo on our plates. I can also show you some cases of Finns and mumbo jumbo it back to you.

    • Enrique

      Wow, Tony, you are incredible. You take a poll and wave it as a truth about German society. It was a poll and it reflects how much of a difficult time some Germans, especially those polled, have with immigration. Treat such a story with tweezers. I would not trust it. Maybe it shows how much some Germans have problems dealing with Germans who are different than them. As I have told you before, Europe has a lot of problems with this issue. We last saw it surface in the former Yugoslavia and now we see it again with the explusion of the Roma from France and thousands fro Germany.

  23. Tony Garcia

    So the only polls with are valid are those with ask Somalis about racism? I see…

    Europe is getting enough of these people, even countries with long history of tolerance like Sweden and Denmark are stating to see where such tolerance is taking their countries and they are not liking it at all…

  24. Tony Garcia

    Germans, Finns, Danish, Swedish, French, Dutch, and now even Americans don’t like Muslims. Different people from different countries and cultures, all having the same feeling toward one single group. Ups… there is an elephant in the room…

  25. JusticeDemon

    Ricky,

    That Supreme Administrative Court decision was certainly not legal mumbo jumbo, but I wouldn’t expect everyone to have a couple of hours to read through it and digest the issues. As far as I can tell on a quick review, this is an attempt by the Supreme Administrative Court to set some kind of legal standard for cases involving family reunification of unaccompanied minor asylum seekers. There are clearly arguments running both ways and I wouldn’t be surprised to see the case going the full distance at the European Court of Human Rights sometime over the next 3-5 years.

  26. Hannu

    That legal mumbojumbo in short.

    Suomesta B ei ole tiennyt haastattelussa mitään muuta kuin, että Suomessa elämä on ilmaista ja voi opiskella. C on haastattelussa tiennyt vain, että Suomen pääkaupunki on Helsinki ja kuulleensa Suomessa olevan kylmä.

    Perheenyhdistämishaastatteluissa on käynyt ilmi, että perheenkokoajan vanhemmat eivät osaa lukea tai kirjoittaa. Siten kirjallinen kommunikointi heidän välillään on vaikeaa.

    Apparently B know more about finland than i do, i didnt know that living in finland is free…

  27. JusticeDemon

    Hannu

    Did we read the same decision? The perheenkokoaja A in that case was five years old at the time of the appealed decision. The parents B and C were living together, so presumably they would not need to communicate in writing (messages left on the kitchen table? Gone to bingo, dinner in the oven…).

    However, it would appear that those parents knew more about Finland than some applicants from Russia who received residence permits based on their distant ancestry in the early 1990s.

    Incidentally that elämä on ilmaista could well be an error due to serial interpreting. Or are you arguing that people living in Finland are not free?

  28. Hannu

    “Incidentally that elämä on ilmaista could well be an error due to serial interpreting. Or are you arguing that people living in Finland are not free?”

    I doubt that. “B on ilmoittanut, että he eivät voi viettää perhe-elämää Etiopiassa, koska hänellä ei ole työtä siellä. Suomessa se B:n mukaan on mahdollista, koska elämä siellä on ilmaista. “

    • Enrique

      –I doubt that. “B on ilmoittanut, että he eivät voi viettää perhe-elämää Etiopiassa, koska hänellä ei ole työtä siellä. Suomessa se B:n mukaan on mahdollista, koska elämä siellä on ilmaista. “

      Do you know what I suggest Hannu: Kill them all. Wouldn’t that solve everything? If you got a problem with another group – kill them too. Or maybe you are a humanitarian: Kick them out of Finland. I really do not know what your point is. Nothing, absolutely nothing, is free in life. Not even the social welfare a person receives. He might not understand that – but the fact remains: nothing is free. That family accepts social welfare at the cost of being excluded.

  29. Tony Garcia

    “Kill them all. Wouldn’t that solve everything? If you got a problem with another group – kill them too.”

    Wow Enrique, why dramatize that much? No one need to be killed, they can live happily ever after where they came from.

  30. JusticeDemon

    Well Hannu, you obviously checked up on the right of refugees to work and other aspects of their liberty in Ethiopia. Why don’t you enlighten us about these things? Just how free is the life of a refugee in Ethiopia? Freer than in Finland?

  31. Tiwaz

    -“#You have been around this blog for a very long time. You should know that I am not into nationalities. Finland is my home and that is why I prefer to write a lot on it. The reason for the last post on Finland’s own medicine was to study where racism could derive from.”

    And you fail to remember that those books, with far more racist undertones, would be found in plentiful amount in USA, UK and so forth. When was it that Australia forcefully took aborigin children from their parents for white ones to raise? Hmm?

    -“You once said that if you invite a Somali to your home, it was an invitation to be raped. Where did you get that information? You were taught by someone.”

    Yes, by specialists who acknowledge that different cultures play by different rules and thus are incompatible until one of them is forced to change it’s rules to fit other one.

    -“Tiwaz, here you go again with the Jew-in-the-concentration-camp-is-the-SS-officer example. I never said that immigrants are ALWAYS right. What you are trying to do, however, is minimize racism by labelling its victims racists. It is as simple as that.”

    I again ask for VERIFIABLE source with proof of OBJECTIVE and FACT BASED study which shows that there is racism.

    Not street questions made to immigrants asking if they were victims of racism, because that is 0 worth study. (how about making query asking people if they think they should receive bigger salary)

    You to this date NEVER have made any statement except ones which boild down to: “Finns bad, immigrants good”.

    When you cannot prove modern racism you dig up a book from 1928. And ignore that it was for it’s content identical with books from every single advanced society with functional school system.

    Admit it Enrique, you are racist. You cannot stand Finns and Finnish culture and thus you keep bashing us.

    Immigrants ARE racists, they are racists because they refuse to adjust to local society.

  32. Tiwaz

    -“I think the police thinks that they go unreported so it suggests committed. I really think that if you are a member of a certain religious group there is a greater chance that anything you do will be magnified many times than compared with a Finn. If you make a mistake it is a bigger thing because you are not a native. So, if you want to study the problem, you have to look at this things as well. ”

    So what proof you have that these not reported rapes are committed by Finns?

    -“Do you know what I suggest Hannu: Kill them all. Wouldn’t that solve everything? If you got a problem with another group – kill them too. Or maybe you are a humanitarian: Kick them out of Finland. I really do not know what your point is.”

    Point is, they want to come assuming they have to do nothing. And you want more of them here.
    AND they have glaring absence of basic skills required to do something in Finland. (Hint, one of them is thing you do right now)

    -“Nothing, absolutely nothing, is free in life. Not even the social welfare a person receives. He might not understand that – but the fact remains: nothing is free. That family accepts social welfare at the cost of being excluded.”

    And they do not see it as bad thing. They just live off MY taxmoney, which I would prefer to see used in something else.
    Then, when they are unhappy with their life they do not see need to change but demand that Finns change.

    Do they work tirelessly to learn Finnish language and understand Finnish culture? Some, but huge number do not.

  33. Tiwaz

    Oh yes, and regarding what to do with “them”.

    Simply tighten up admittance into Finland. No point letting anyone come and make family reunionts as hard as Denmark.

    And if immigrant without citizenship commits crime for which highest punishment can be prison sentence.

    Send them back, without exception.

    Upon arriving to Finland immigrants should grasp that they make social contract to obey it’s laws and seek to fit in. Failure to do so should lead to expulsion.

  34. Hannu

    “Well Hannu, you obviously checked up on the right of refugees to work and other aspects of their liberty in Ethiopia.”

    They arent registered as refugees and in somali area somali so wealthy that he can send child to here can get permissions easily.

  35. JusticeDemon

    They arent registered as refugees…

    Well, Hannu, that’s already a disadvantage, as you would know if you had the faintest idea what you are talking about, or even if you had read the KHO decision that you cited.

  36. Hannu

    “Well, Hannu, that’s already a disadvantage”

    Well thats their problem, that decision doesnt say they couldnt only that they arent.

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