Cultural diversity needs proactive solutions not populist whining

by , under All categories, Enrique

By Enrique Tessieri

The many threads on Migrant Tales mirror what is wrong with the ongoing debate in Finland and our ever-growing cultural diversity. On the one side we have those who cannot do anything else but complain while the other side looks for solutions.

We at Migrant Tales have thanks to the many bloggers who visit our blog aimed to become not only a humble voice of the immigrant community but one that offers solutions.

When we debate such an issue we do little to help those who are victims of racism and exclusion if we don’t offer solutions. If the solutions we offer are rejected, we should come back with better solutions, according to the principle of Rinkeby School in Sweden, Börje Ehrstrand.

Compared with Sweden, the acceptance of Finland’s ever-growing cultural diversity is still in diapers.

One of the reasons why anti-immigration sentiment through parties like the Perussuomalaiset (PS) got a beachhead in Finland in April is because the voice of those who complain but never give solutions was stronger.  The present situation offers a good opportunity for us to lobby politicians, express our views to the media and general public and offer proactive solutions.

No matter how much parties like the PS kick and bitch about our “multiculturalism,” they cannot do nothing about it except whine and spread fear with the catalyst of ignorance.

Building a society with good relations between all of its parts, based on mutual acceptance and respect, is always more desirable than one that builds walls of hatred.

The matter that politicians and Finns in general should know is that that type of society will cost less money to taxpayers.

  1. Question

    The question should be does Finland want large colonized migration where migrants lay roots in Finland? But as many other countries in Europe have had that type immigration for decades and even after huge amounts of money have been spent on integration polices the negatives are still out numbering the positives . So its unlikely that Finnish population will want to go down that road.

    So the solution which most Finnish people will most likely support is a not a large colonized immigration policy. But a policy based around having a set percentages of immigrants allowed to stay in Finland and a set percentage of immigrates allowed to come to work in Finland.

    When it come to work based immigration first it will be the balance between work immigration and the unemployment figures before allowing work immigration

    When it comes to settled immigration if should be put to a referendum where the public are asked about which immigrates they would allow to stay in Finland.
    The questions of the referendum could be Ethnic groups, religion or the economics on the immigrates home country. The answers to theses questions will be used as a guide to decided what settled immigration Finnish people are most welcoming to.

    But this could only be achieved at the moment under a anti-EU group like PS.
    No pro EU political party would be able to achieve this as the EU have a open border policy.

    One of the frustrations pro EU parties have with political parties like PS and others is that they can never compete with populists groups on immigration as their support for the EU holds them back . Where as parties like PS are free from the shackles of the EU so they can set their own limits

    • Enrique

      –The question should be does Finland want large colonized migration where migrants lay roots in Finland?

      They already have. Don’t forget that tens of thousands of Finns have multicultural backgrounds. The term “colonzed immigrantion” is provocative because it reflects something that is completely untrue. Finns are not a native group like Amerindians. That’s far-right hogwash.

      –When it comes to settled immigration if should be put to a referendum where the public are asked about which immigrates they would allow to stay in Finland.

      Really?! So you mean that you are going to organize a referendum to kick out people who live here legally? Are you serious?

  2. Question

    “But as many other countries in Europe have had that type immigration for decades and even after huge amounts of money have been spent on integration polices the negatives are still out numbering the positives . So its unlikely that Finnish population will want to go down that road”.

    The Finnish governments immigration policy seems to be following that line and with only a few percentage of the Finnish population being immigrants and PS now being the third biggest party in parliament. I think its clear that the Finnish population have already rejected that idea as being Finland’s immigration policy

  3. Question

    They already have. Don’t forget that tens of thousands of Finns have multicultural backgrounds. The term “colonzed immigrantion” is provocative because it reflects something that is completely untrue. Finns are not a native group like Amerindians. That’s far-right hogwash.

    If you are referring to many Finns have roots from Sweden and Russia many people from those roots you are also forgetting support to PS on their immigration views also comes from people from those backgrounds

    If you are referring to that all Finns are originally from Eastern Europe that thought would be laughed out of parliament.

    Of course colonized immigration does exists workers from say Latvia would never be considered that they would have to go for interrogation lessons whilst living in Finland, but if you are from Somalia then it is suggested that you go. Because Finland is aware that immigrates who are from the same country will live together and not interact with the Finnish population which creates countries within countries which is colonization

    The question of those living here could be broken down into three groups

    Those here who have claimed asylum or are here illegally

    Those due to EU polices which allow free movement

    And those who are neither of the above

    A PS government would have enough support to deport as many illegal immigrates if they where able to regardless of the situation in their country of origin.
    There is enough support and thought in Europe that human rights laws are outdated so the question of human rights can be solved by growing public opinion

    Most people don’t have a problem with EU citizens for the old EU states being in Finland
    But most where against the new EU states being allowed to join and given free movement so soon so PS could implement a policy where those citizens would have to reapply for residence

    The third would be enough percentage that Finnish people would tolerate

    Of course theses are just guidelines a correct policy would have to be built around the idea of finding a workable immigration policy by creating one and learning from its progress

    But most Finnish people are demanding a immigration policy which is free illegal immigration and from EU polices and EU intervention. And Finland is not alone in Europe with wanting a immigration policy similar to this, so the Finnish people wont have to feel concerned about being called outsiders

  4. Question

    If the Finnish government does not create a immigration policy which the Finnish people want then if the problems from either not listening to the Finnish people or making the mistakes other countries have made. The Finnish people will turn on people and groups which they would never had a issue with before.

    When PS made their breakthrough which made them the third biggest party in parliament
    The danger to Finland’s immigration policy does not come from them but from the government itself

  5. Hannu

    “Finns are not a native group”

    We only came in here about 10 000 years ago and thats lot less than 16,000 — 13,000 years ago so of course we cant be natives…
    Finns as other europeans just came here from nowhere with magical teleportation and oppressed poor natives…

    • Enrique

      Hannu, there’s a big difference between Native, indigenous groups versus Finns as a national group. For one, we have a country.

  6. Allan

    “Finns are not a native group like Amerindians. That’s far-right hogwash.”

    Oh, so Finns came in on ships in the 1500’s then? Wherefrom? Sirius?

    • Enrique

      Allan, the problem with your argument is that you are trying to portray yourself as an Amerindian “victim” that will be “colonized” by immigrants. LOL. You should get into the fiction-writing business.

  7. Question

    For one, we have a country.

    Which was created by a indigenous group and once a indigenous group has created a country then would the next step be to protect it and the people who created it, as a country is a reflection of its people

    • Enrique

      Question, you have to stop thinking of yourself and the group you represent as a “victim.” Tell me, these so-called “Native Finns,” who are they and what about those that left this country (1.2 million) as emigrants. Are they “colonizers” as well?

  8. Question

    “Allan, the problem with your argument is that you are trying to portray yourself as an Amerindian “victim” that will be “colonized” by immigrants. LOL. You should get into the fiction-writing business.”

    How many groups of people have been displaced in cities across Europe by high birth rate immigration .. Demographic change is one if not the main opposition against mass immigration of all kinds

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2032956/John-Cleese-London-longer-English-city-thats-got-2012-Olympics.html

  9. Allan

    “The many threads on Migrant Tales mirror what is wrong with the ongoing debate in Finland and our ever-growing cultural diversity.”

    Not really, there is nothing about how wrong ever-growing cultural diversity is.

    “On the one side we have those who cannot do anything else but complain”
    Like the Migrant Tales.

    “while the other side looks for solutions.”
    And votes for the PS, to make the political solutions required.

    • Enrique

      –And votes for the PS, to make the political solutions required.

      It can be proven that the so-called PS way is the most expensive way for tax payers. Allan, you know as well as I do that you cannot stop internationalization. Finland is, was, and will be culturally diverse. The faster you accept that fact and find ways to make it work the better you’ll sleep at night.

  10. Allan

    “Are they “colonizers” as well?”

    If they went to Americas or Australia, most definitely from the native/first nation/aboriginal point of view.

    Then going to Sweden, now that is a question. Are the Estonians “invading” Finland? Haven’t seen any demands of “special treatment” from them, so I would say not. Its an attitude question. The Russian government is having an attitude problem, that will reflect to the treatment of Russians even they do not agree with Putin’s panslavism.

  11. Question

    Question, you have to stop thinking of yourself and the group you represent as a “victim.” Tell me, these so-called “Native Finns,” who are they and what about those that left this country (1.2 million) as emigrants. Are they “colonizers” as well?

    Every ethic group or tribe has at some point colonized another or taken over another and to say because of that you can not protect yourself from the same happening to Is a view only a handful of people would agree on

    • Enrique

      Question, when you call yourself a “tribe” you are really getting into racism waters. I suggest that you read our history and find out who are the real so-called “colonizers,” the Finns who drove out the Saami, excluded the Romany minority and who are now masquerading as PS politicians.

      Do you want me to feel sorry for you?

  12. Question

    On the one side we have those who cannot do anything else but complain”
    Like the Migrant Tales.

    while the other side looks for solutions.”
    And votes for the PS, to make the political solutions required.

    If Vasen and RKP are a reflection of migrant tales then their poor showing in the presidential elections shows two political parties with no solutions

    • Enrique

      –And votes for the PS, to make the political solutions required.

      What ARE actually the political solutions? Question, you cannot use lebensraum or Nazi tactics to ethnically cleanse (a term used in the 1990s in the former Yugoslavia) a region or country.

      I think you have to accept the fact that Finland is, was, and will be culturally diverse. No matter how much you kick and bitch, that is the fact.

  13. Question

    Question, you have to stop thinking of yourself and the group you represent as a “victim.” Tell me, these so-called “Native Finns,” who are they and what about those that left this country (1.2 million) as emigrants. Are they “colonizers” as well?

    Every ethic group or tribe has at some point colonized another or taken over another and to say because of that you can not protect yourself from the same happening to you if your tribe at some point had done the same Is a view only a handful of people would agree on

  14. Question

    PS can present the economics of Asylum or the problems of free movement within the EU

    Yet your response is about if Finns are native or not native.

    What can I say….

  15. Allan

    The EU is at the moment working towards a “common immigration & integration policy”, so basically the PS or Finland won’t be much able to effect what the “directive” says – however the PS can affect in how Finland shall “interprete” the directive. We only need to look at our southern neighbour who is member in all the same organisations as Finland for a model how to “interprete” things.

  16. justicedemon

    Congratulations Ricky!

    This ATL was clearly intended to set off our more rabid contributors, and Question has rewarded you with one of her best Gish Gallops to date, occupying a good 75 per cent of the BTL column space so far with 9 out of 17 responses. There are some absolutely wonderful gobbledegook expressions here too that are really enriching the English language (“colonised migration”, “colonized immigration policy” and “interrogation lessons” are my favourites so far).

    But here is an interesting point just to keep our mad dog frothing at the mouth a bit longer: Question hides behind a user name and claims that peruSSuomalaiset support would favour all manner of severe coercive measures, but what were the actual attitudes expressed by leading public crypto-fascists over the cases of Irina Antonova and Eveline Fadayel (Freddy Van Wonterghem) or the Vietnamese family in Kauhajoki (James Hirvisaari)?

    It certainly seems that the real would-be concentration camp guards are all hiding behind Internet aliases, whereas those that come out into the real world turn out to be pussycats or Rambos with wet pants when the chips are down.

    The next 200 column inches are yours, Question… 🙂

  17. Question

    Dont be a cunt all your life

    Congratulations Ricky!
    This ATL was clearly intended to set off our more rabid contributors, and Question has rewarded you with one of her best Gish Gallops to date, occupying a good 75 per cent of the BTL column space so far with 9 out of 17 responses. There are some absolutely wonderful gobbledegook expressions here too that are really enriching the English language (“colonised migration”, “colonized immigration policy” and “interrogation lessons” are my favourites so far).
    But here is an interesting point just to keep our mad dog frothing at the mouth a bit longer: Question hides behind a user name and claims that peruSSuomalaiset support would favour all manner of severe coercive measures, but what were the actual attitudes expressed by leading public crypto-fascists over the cases of Irina Antonova and Eveline Fadayel (Freddy Van Wonterghem) or the Vietnamese family in Kauhajoki (James Hirvisaari)?
    It certainly seems that the real would-be concentration camp guards are all hiding behind Internet aliases, whereas those that come out into the real world turn out to be pussycats or Rambos with wet pants when the chips are down.
    The next 200 column inches are yours, Question…

  18. Question

    If you looked at my blogs if you do not agree with them each one is thought out
    and debatable and then you reply with that.

    I ever find out what what you look like and see you walking on the street I will break your fucking head open with a brick you fucking cunt.

    • Enrique

      Question, you are out of here for good! Go spread your hostility somewhere else.

      JusticeDemon, Question threatened us. Do you think we could report this to the police?

  19. Question

    We move in different circles but which are very close so beware because I m not fucking joking I do some prison time if it means I can break your fucking head open

  20. Allan

    I thought the current incapacitated system was the most expensive for taxpayers. If you look at teh PS manifesto, if it was implemented, the only losers would be both the crooks benefitting of the exploitation and people benefitting from the current system in their shelter jobs.

  21. Allan

    Enrique, when and where did these “Finnish colonisers” come from to “drive out” the Saami? I know you are thick, but try not to embarrass us with that much USA high school education. And the Romany minority exludes themselves from the society to maintain their “culture”, not the other way around.

    • Enrique

      Allan, when you are in a corner you start kicking below the belt. You should look into becoming a fiction writer.

    • Enrique

      Yes, Allan, I like the solutions in Estonia: exclude Russian-speakers. That’s a dangerous path to go. It does not promote anything else but resentment and hatred.

  22. Allan

    It is also noteworthy Estonia embraced ruthless capitalism and gave the old socialist laissez-faire the boot and didn’t embrace the “nordic welfare” model either. Maybe if Finland had gone bankrupt in the 1990’s we’d be talking from a totally different standpoint as well, but that is a “what if”. Sweden on the other hand is having a massive immigration still even its industries have been suffering. There has been wealth in the country to keep up the welfare state, but for how long? And what will then happen when they must confess that theres a bottom to the pocket? Finland’s going down the same path in borrowing money but when the time cvomes to pay back – are there going to be taxpayers able to pay for all the fun? If the counties are struggling with their obligations even now, the average council tax rate is 19% and in a few counties its hitting 20.5 % -and that is in the most remote counties with ageing population and all working age people and families leaving. You look at Oulu where the youth unemployment has been an all-time high for several years and lo and behold the latest statistics come out Oulu’s crime rates have jumped. And you call this a “welfare state” that needs to take proactive steps towards… mmmm what was it now? Acceptance of more unemployeds coming to dip into the same pocket as they respect us for what they are getting? Yay, we’re internationals, give us a group hug!

  23. Allan

    Enrique, invading a country, deporting its intellectuals and repopulating it with a different ethnicity doesn’t play any part in Estonia. Granted, the current offspring isn’t responsible for the sins of the USSR, but then again, they are not living in the USSR any more either.

  24. Allan

    About “proactive solutions” the Finns tended to build themselves a “haali” in the USA. In many places they built two, a “Workmens Union” hall and a “Temperance” hall due to certain sociopolitical disagreements, in places also a church and even a public sauna. Last time I checked they didn’t ask for the local government for a handout for this kind of procative enterprises. I haven’t heard of any objections to buying your own property and building your cultural places in Finland, theres an interesting Buddhist retreat on the road to Porvoo. Of course theres been the question of building mosques and minarets, but what I understood the objections have been due to the “demand” that the taxpayers build these rather than those who want them.

  25. eyeopener

    Hahahah. Brits are not a native group!! A cool conclusion from Allan*s point of view!! Brits come from Mega V, an outer planet in the Second Milkway. By ships. You don’t believe it but it’s true.But it was spaceships 🙂 What the f……. are Brits?? Any knowledge about them?? Or is it just an inbreed from several cultural tribes?? Intersting question for phrenologists like Allan!! Multi-culturalism swept under the ideological carpet -as usual-. Look into the mirror Allan. You are just i misbreed!!

  26. Allan

    No, eyeopener, I don’t think its inbreeding, except maybe in the Fens, inbreeding happens when you marry your cousins to the nth generation, but you should know all about that.

    “Brits” actually is an artificial conglomerate, just like “Belgians” or “Swiss”.

    • Enrique

      –“Brits” actually is an artificial conglomerate, just like “Belgians” or “Swiss”.

      Is it true that the Garden of Eden was in Finland. The Finns did not move anywhere but magically appeared and stayed here? Give me a break…

  27. Laputis

    Enrique:
    “Yes, Allan, I like the solutions in Estonia: exclude Russian-speakers. That’s a dangerous path to go. It does not promote anything else but resentment and hatred.”

    You share opinions with Russian government, it can only applaud to you. Putin should give you a medal. Russia´s government-controlled media screams all the time how “badly” the Russians are treated in Estonia, in the same time when Russia itself opresses it´s minorities, and in much worse ways! Here you are double-standarts.
    The most common reason why Russians are treated badly in Estonia is because Russians are not willing to learn Estonian language. And in the same time, Russians in Russia also are not only wiling to learn Tatar, Bashkir, Chechen, Yakut etc. languages when living in Tatarstan, Bashkorstan, Chechenia, Sakha republic etc., but also want that all these minorities write with cyrillic letters, don´t allow them to create own political parties and so on. The Russians have really arrogant attitude towards non-Russians. At least in Estonia the Russians get to feel fruits of their arrogance, but in Russia their attitude goes unpunished.
    Enrique defends Russians, and in the same time talks about how minorities should be protected etc. It is double-standarts in my eyes.

    • Enrique

      –You share opinions with Russian government, it can only applaud to you.

      If you are from one of the Baltic States, it shows that you haven’t read your history. All you are doing is spreading hatred and suspicion. At the end of the day you are going to get hurt.

  28. Laputis

    Fixing of mistake:

    “And in the same time, Russians in Russia also are not only NOT wiling to learn Tatar, Bashkir, Chechen, Yakut etc. languages when living in Tatarstan, Bashkorstan, Chechenia, Sakha republic etc., but also want that all these minorities write with cyrillic letters, don´t allow them to create own political parties and so on.

  29. eyeopener

    That’s exactly what happened to your family and consequently to you, dear Allan. Inbreeding is such a characteristic of your stupidity that you can’t deny it any more. But……. you can keep on trying. Loser!!

    Planet ghost would be a better word for you. See you on MEGA V.!! Take a break!!

    • Enrique

      –This thread is the most surreal thing I’ve seen today.

      What’s so surreal about it? I think it’s very realistic and sensible.

  30. Method

    Well, someone could explain to me how you go from the original post to feuding whether Finns are a native group or not and from there to conclusion that someone should get their heads bashed in with a brick. I’m really having a hard time following the rationalization here.

    I mean, the point of the blog to me is this (it’s not that hard to find):

    “When we debate such an issue we do little to help those who are victims of racism and exclusion if we don’t offer solutions. If the solutions we offer are rejected, we should come back with better solutions, according to the principle of Rinkeby School in Sweden, Börje Ehrstrand.”

    and

    “Building a society with good relations between all of its parts, based on mutual acceptance and respect, is always more desirable than one that builds walls of hatred.
    The matter that politicians and Finns in general should know is that that type of society will cost less money to taxpayers.”

    I don’t know much about this Rinkeby school. Quick googling gave me a picture it’s some kind of a achievement in the field of multicultural societies. Not alot of numbers or stats or graphs come through. Sounds like an interesting thing, though. I’d like to read more, if you will Enrique.

    But that’s the common thing, the missing of numbers. These days we just speak with terms of “multicultural society”, “ever growing diversity” or “multiculturalism is bad” etc. But what kind of numbers everyone is talking about? How multicultural society? How much and how fast growing diversity? How much multiculturalism is bad? How much is good?

    What I don’t get from anti-immigration rhetoric is that they are obviously talking about large numbers of people coming in in fast phase and the problems it’ll create, while the reality seems much different. Now of course you could say they are proactive. Trying to narrow the amount of incomers before there are problems that need solving. There’s a saying that a wise man will dodge the problems a smart man can solve.

    On the other hand there’s the “multiculturalist” side of view, which also is very vaque. It’s easy to pick up that Finland is not diverse enough (to what/whose standards?), so we desperately need to be more diverse, because more diversity is better and Finland isn’t diverse enough. It really seems like circular thinking in many cases. I mean I understand someone will like the idea and it’s their right to pursue it. But honestly, I’ve never sat down in my sofa, sighed and thought: “Wow, what I really need in this life, is my surroundings to be more diverse”.

    • Enrique

      Method, the Finns are not like the Inuits, Saamis or other indigenous groups. They are a national group just like other ones in Europe.

      The whole idea of using “tribe” to describe your ethnicity is a good way to flirt with racism. Anti-immigration groups use this to stress “us” and “them.” Society is all about inclusion not exclusion.

      Remember the “Aryan race?” That was made up by the Nazis as an excuse for the racist policies. We live in complex societies that are diverse. That diversity, and how you include it, is critical. We are not hunters and gatherers any longer.

    • Enrique

      –I don’t know much about this Rinkeby school. Quick googling gave me a picture it’s some kind of a achievement in the field of multicultural societies. Not alot of numbers or stats or graphs come through. Sounds like an interesting thing, though. I’d like to read more, if you will Enrique.

      I will do that, Method. Just for your information, the school excels in national tests. Language and expressing oneself are key at Rinkeby School. At wood shop class, the students heard Swedish Radio 1 in the background.

      In a nutshell it means reaping synergies from our international group, learning to express yourself in Swedish. I’ll get back to this in a blog entry.

  31. Allan

    Method – rinkebyskolan is a success only due to thd fact it has not got burnt down, and that they do not adhere to the other school methods in Sweden. In their ” peer group” = ghetto immigrant schools, they are phenomenal. Compared to Swedish curricukum schools.. yeah, lets redo statistics.

    • Enrique

      –Method – rinkebyskolan is a success only due to thd fact it has not got burnt down,

      Have you been to the school? I was there on Thursday. Your response it typical of those that whine but offer no solutions.

      Rinkeby School follows the Swedish school curriculum to the letter.

  32. BlandaUpp

    Allen

    “You look at Oulu where the youth unemployment has been an all-time high for several years and lo and behold the latest statistics come out Oulu’s crime rates have jumped.”

    Would you say the crime rate in Oulu has jumped because of their Finnish ethnicity or their Christian religion? In their ” peer group” = ghetto rural Finns. You seem to apply different criteria when dealing with different groups in our society.

    Lets put some REAL numbers into perspective for a second here. There’s twice as many Estonians unemployed here than unemployed Somali refugees. There’s 5 times more Russians unemployed here than unemployed Somali refugees.

  33. Hannu

    Method immigrant population in finland is groving about 8% year, check this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umFnrvcS6AQ if you think its small amount.
    Rinkeby school is fail, total fail.
    Year 9 (2010):
    Number of students : 82 (Rank 587 of 1620)
    Average merit rating : 114.8 (Rank 1439 of 1445)
    Percentage of students who successfully passed in all subjects : 13.4% (Rank 1442 of 1451)
    If thats a success then im a batman.

    • Enrique

      –Rinkeby school is fail, total fail.

      Hannu, Rinkeby School is not a failure. It is a threat to your urban tales, hate sites like Hommaforum and Scripta.

  34. BlandaUpp

    Hannu

    What is the difference between an immigrant and a political refugee?

    You should read this paper: “From the worst to the first” – the story of the Rinkeby school

    Sammanfattning: This paper recounts the success story of a school in the suburbs of Stockholm, which describes a trajectory of development from being threatened by abandon and closing by the municipal authorities in the late 80s to being rewarded and celebrated as one of the best schools in Sweden about 15 years later. The radical transformation of the schools climate and mode of action was to a large extent due to the creative initiatives of a new headmaster, whose strong will, sound educational ideas and charismatic leadership inspired his staff to work hard for the improvement of the school. The actions undertaken and described in the paper are related to what research on good school leadership has shown to be good practice, as well as to more general ideas in educational theory. The choice of the story format is pragmatically and aesthetically motivated: we are usually more impressed by a (good) story and more inspired to let ourselves be guided by it, than by mere theoretical principles or abstractions.

    http://www.kau.se/forskning/forskdb?to_do=show_result&id=11375

  35. Allan

    Hannu, getting from 0 t0 13% is a success, and not getting the school burned.

    Enrique has never been to Rinkeby, he just invents stories of the brain surgeon astronauts.

    • Enrique

      –Enrique has never been to Rinkeby, he just invents stories of the brain surgeon astronauts.

      I think I will have to agree with eyeopener: Allan has eyes in the back of his head. He can see through walls and play hopscotch by using Mars, Jupiter and Uranus (no pun intended).

  36. Method

    Enrique:

    “What’s so surreal about it? I think it’s very realistic and sensible.”

    The comments

    “Method, the Finns are not like the Inuits, Saamis or other indigenous groups. They are a national group just like other ones in Europe.”

    Ok, but what were they before they were a nation? I mean these are all based on theories. And there are plenty of those. Clinging into one you like is picking. How I see it, we don’t really know. Also the truth is, it doesn’t really matter when we’re on a subject of a nation and not a reservation. So against or for, it’s not really an issue.

  37. Allan

    Were Czechs and Slovaks indigenous people before Czechoslovakia broke up? And they are now just racist xenophobes to be run over?

  38. Hannu

    Blandaupp
    “What is the difference between an immigrant and a political refugee?”

    You dont know? And what that has do with this?

    “You should read this paper: “From the worst to the first” – the story of the Rinkeby school”

    You should read stats of how that scool is actually doing. I can write paper about that smoking, radioactivity and excessive drinking is good for you and only because of reptilians who try to stop us to go level 3 and challenge them those are deemed bad.

    • Enrique

      Hannu, no matter how much mud you sling at Rinkeby, the content kids and adolescents are the example. Can you take this information like a man?

      Apart from happy students there was NO graffiti on the walls. That’s probably more than can be said about your school, perhaps, Hannu.

  39. Hannu

    In my school graffiti was unheard, no one would dare or even think to mess with public property. Where is your stats supporting your claims? Or do you have any?
    Show me proof that it is really top school, everything i see is its in deep bottom.
    Of course they talk how its success and great but i want numbers not talk.

  40. eyeopener

    Hannu seem to be Allan’s super student. I don’t know how long his schoolcareer at Allan’s school has been. Some statistics maybe?? One thing is clear to me!! Your school record show extremely low grades on self-reflection, critical thinking, analytical skills and informed argumentation. High grades for monkey behavior (sorry, don’t want to offend a wonderful anaimal), plagiarism (copy and paste of boss’ behavior), self confidence and human communication.

    Bad school!!

  41. Hannu

    Eyeopener show me stats from rinkeby scool, i did and only thing i got from reply was “wish it was” factor arguments. You cant give those cant you? so you use “attack to messenger”…
    And im one who should learn “critical thinking”….

    • Enrique

      Hannu, take a look at the video clip. Some of the your questions are answered there. Even so, you seem to be totally ignorant of the big picture: the school works. I know that is a threat to your ideas of keeping Finland “white” as well as those that masquerade on Hommaforum and Scripta.

      I am still pissed off at you for going to Scripta and attacking my site back in 2008. I saw what you wrote and how you organised a social-media lynch mob. Who runs Scripta? Oh, yeah, the PS MP who looks like the shy kid who was bullied at school. None other than Jussi Halla-aho.

      You can, maybe, forgive ignorance. But if a politician fuels hatred because he is an opportunist and a narcissist, that’s stooping pretty low!

  42. Method

    The video was interesting, but there were not very much answers. It seems promising though. I mean, determinism is what’ll kill creativity in solutions. If you already know they won’t make it, then you won’t be much of a help to them in making it.

  43. eyeopener

    No dear Hannu. Output in education measured as products suits your way of reasoning best. Have you realized that you behave exactly according to that principle. At least you are quite consistent with your education.! You should apply for the Minister of Education.

    That is the same old story. Effectiviness and efficiency (economic approach) versus creativity and innovation capabilities through education (educational approach) Your criticism on the Swedish school shows your ignorance of this discussion

    The problem with your kind of guys is that you know exactly what the other do wrong and what you do right. Turn this view around for a time and start discussing then.

    Refreshing like the Finnish climate at the moment. You never walk together in the cold.

  44. eyeopener

    Ho yes, dear Hannu…………what has graffity in your school to do with the level of the school. You should have a closer look at pdagogical theories and curricula that are based on graffity, cartoons, videa-clips etc.

    I am sorry to say that you are about the most ignorant person I have met in these blogs. I was just a week ago visiting a conference where graffity and the other mentioned tools were discussed for entrepreneurship in Finland.

    Come down from your cloud or should I say clout. Wake-up and talk then about what is going on.

  45. Laputis

    Enrique:
    “If you are from one of the Baltic States, it shows that you haven’t read your history. All you are doing is spreading hatred and suspicion. At the end of the day you are going to get hurt.”

    I am not from Baltic countries, but I adore them. Century ago Baltic people had same low status as my ethnic group has now, and always had. Now, due Baltic people got independence, they got much better position of their languages, culture, and they got known and much more respected… I can see benefits of having own independent country. But Baltic countries were occupied by Soviet Union, which was doing lots of things to destroy the Baltic countries. And one of methods to do so was to fill those countries with immigrants. And teach the immigrants arrogant attitude towards Baltic people (just like to any other non-Russians). Baltic people were called “fashists”, “inferior to Russians”, even “dogs”. And then suddely unforseen thing came – Soviet Union collapsed. And Baltic countries regained independence. Now the spread of hatred and suspicion towards Baltic people, which was started by Russians, suddenly reversed against the Russians themselves. At the end of the day they got hurt.
    Enrique, you have no idea about what is going on in ex-USSR, it seems.

    • Enrique

      Laputis, I can imagine all that went down in the Baltic States and former Soviet Union.

      However, the way to achieving a well-functioning society is not excluding other groups. Do you know why? Because you won’t solve anything. The Baltic States should do something like they did in South Africa after the end of Apartheid: Truth Commissions. Noticed that Nelson Mandela didn’t go around seeking revenge? That’s what made such a great man.

  46. eyeopener

    Better my graffity than your shit, Allan. But we ahve already settled that matter. The dog barks like his master isn’t it Allan. No orginality, no creativity no, no .no. Copy and paste. Plagiarism.

    So sad, so sad!! That your fresh air, private schools can’t bring anything else that the crap you are talking make me proud of my ghetto school that taught me to be a creative, innovative and open person. However, I wouldn’t like to visit your “golden ghetto schools” from which you get only square-heads in uniforms blating the same texts.

    Are you a friend of the British Minister of Education? Must be!! Turn the nation into an army camp. Where have I seen this before?? Wasn’t it……….? Right you got it.

  47. eyeopener

    Hi Laputis (Clapotis)

    Your narrow-mindness doesn’t only include your knowledge about the history of the Baltic Sates but also shadows your knowledge about what is happening today in the discussion about racism in Europe.

    A Baltic has aquired the position of the chairman for Human Rights Protection Committee. He was elected because your brothers in arms from the Netherlands refused to support the Dutch candiddate. In the end you guys will get a nice big piece of your own cake, because…..

    the guy’s reputation doesn’t mean very much good for you. And the future looks very very bad for your type of guys.

    Ideologies come at a price. Please don’t start to cry now!!

  48. Hannu

    “I am still pissed off at you for going to Scripta and attacking my site back in 2008. I saw what you wrote and how you organised a social-media lynch mob.”

    Mind to show me? Scriptas vieraskirja is still intact even if its closed so you can find my message. I dont remember posting any. Infact i didnt post anything in there, i have advertised your whines in other places tho. Im not “usuttaja”. First time i visited in your whine is december 2008.

  49. Hannu

    I watched that video twice, it didnt answer my question how worst school by stats is so great.
    Of course if you set your limits really low then it is great, they didnt murder eachother and didnt burn school down so great success!
    In any other way its failure when you compare it to other schools. But maybe thats just me with my monocultural ideas about that people actually need to know subjects teached in school, multicultural approach seems to be that its great that you exist and other stuff like learning is irrelevant…

  50. Laputis

    Enrique:
    “Laputis, I can imagine all that went down in the Baltic States and former Soviet Union.

    However, the way to achieving a well-functioning society is not excluding other groups. Do you know why? Because you won’t solve anything. The Baltic States should do something like they did in South Africa after the end of Apartheid: Truth Commissions. Noticed that Nelson Mandela didn’t go around seeking revenge? That’s what made such a great man.”

    I don’t think your idea of well-functioning society (with the equaling all cultures, languages tec.) can be applied on Baltic countries. Because it means threat to Baltic people, languages and cultures. It’s a tricky issue. If Russian language will be proclaimed as official in Estonia or Latvia, gaining equal status to Latvian or Estonian language, it will mean threat to these languages. Because then Russian speakers will not want to learn those languages anymore. And don’t forget that Russian language is spoken by more than 100 millions people worldwide, while Latvian by no more than 2 millions and Estonian no more than by 1 million.
    If Russian non-citizens will suddenly gain citizenship of countries they inhabit, they will start to vote for “Russian” parties, which all are pro-Cremlic.Lots of those people want to see Estonia or Latvia going “back” to Russia.
    Well, maybe well-functioning societies will be gained by “advancing rights” of Russian-speakers, but by cost of endangering local Baltic languages and cultures, and even independence of those countries. And do you want that, Enrique?

  51. Hannu

    Justicedemon does it matter? Its not about baltic russians but russia who uses them for russian things.
    Enriques dream world, he said that. Enriques dream world was one where one did conquer and there was “minorities” whom others “take care of”.
    Of course thing like minority would get own country was bad to enrique.

  52. Hannu

    And also remember that it wasnt normal immigration but “unnormal mixinx of nationalities”.
    They are there by command of russia.

  53. justicedemon

    Hannu

    That sounds like an admission that the Baltic States are managed by the Kremlin. If it’s not about Baltic Russians, then you accept that they are innocent victims.

    The rest of your contribution is unintelligible, probably for the usual reason.

    By the way, did you know that Ricky uses the statistics from this blog in applications for finance from the European Social Fund? Even your most absurd comments are valuable.

  54. Laputis

    Justicedemon:
    “What is the basis for your expertise on Baltic Russians? I know quite a few of them personally. How many do you know?”

    I have met few of them. Besides that, I master Russian language freely, can you do that too? I know their mentality and way of thinking, which is about same as in Russia. They live in their world, and they have lots of flaws in their opinions.
    Russians in Estonia or Latvia regard themselves as Russians, not as some mystic Latvian Russians or Russian-Latvians, or something like that.

  55. justicedemon

    Laputis

    Well, from the fact that you consider Baltic Russians to think the same way as Moscow Russians, I can already tell that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

  56. Laputis

    Justicedemon, the Russians in Baltic countries do think in about same way as Russians in Moscow. And bring into attention that I said “about same way”, not “exactly same way”. Read my posts carefully.
    And do you know how Estonians think? In comparision to Moscow Russians there is MUCH bigger gap visible to Estonian Russians.
    How many Estonians have you met, what do you know about THEIR opinions?

  57. justicedemon

    Laputis

    Baltic Russians are as much victims of Moscow-centred USSR policy as everyone else living in the Baltic States. You of all people would recognise that if you weren’t so badly blinded by prejudice.

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