UPDATE: Black bus driver assaulted in Helsinki

by , under Enrique

A black bus driver from Somalia was assaulted Tuesday in Helsinki by a white Finn, who apparently didn’t like a black man honking the horn at him.  Ali Dahir, the victim who has been given sick leave from work, was hit by the attacker and suffered concussions. 

“I had to stop at an intersection and almost crashed into a car that came from the wrong direction,” he said. “I honked my horn at him. He followed me [to the bus stop], walked inside and attacked me.”

The bus driver said that the man was clearly upset. “I was born in Finland,” he said, “and nobody honks the horn [in this country except for foreigners].”

The Somali bus driver, who is a Finnish citizen, got away from the assailant and locked himself in the attacker’s car until the police arrived.

According to Dahir, none of the passengers in the bus came to his rescue. Only two immigrant passengers inside the bus called the police.

“I was surprised that they didn’t arrest the man and lock him up,” he said. “If a Somali would have attacked a [white] Finnish bus driver, I’d be in jail. I’ve seen this happen before.”

The news was first published on  Abdirahim Husu Hussein‘s Facebook page.

Kuvankaappaus 2013-5-16 kello 15.24.59

 

 


  1. Brave

    But police had reason to cath me and attacking me infront of social workers in day time, yes? They had best reason …. I done crime, what was my crime???? I was sitting on chair oh yes, and law in Finalnd had reason to make a court against me instead polices and social workers… not strange? It was me who was complaining to court but court was judging me ha ha ha and i was waiting for this court one year , wow
    This is Finalnd

  2. PS voter

    It is sad to see things like this to happen, but the good news is that the bus driver seems to have escaped more serious injuries. I hope the drivers gets well soon. In some cases the bus driver has not been as lucky, like the Finnish (?) bus driver who was beaten by two immigrant youth so severely, that the bus driver got serious brain damage and almost died. If I remember correctly, also in that case, the bus driver had honked horn, when the youth were standing in front of bus and preventing the bus from leaving the bus stop. I think it would be good idea for Migrant Tales to sometimes report and condemn also that kind of crimes, for common decency and in order to dissolve the suspicion of not being impartial.

    I would also like to remind that I and quite many members and voters of Perussuomalaiset support tougher sentences for violent crimes. In many other political parties, there has been less support for tougher sentences for violent crimes. That is one good reason for voting Perussuomalaiset.

  3. PS voter

    But police had reason to cath me and attacking me infront of social workers in day time, yes? They had best reason …. I done crime, what was my crime???? I was sitting on chair

    If you have been sentenced in a court for a crime, I am sure that the court papers tell the name of crime you have been charged and convicted. I have reason to believe that you have left out information that would reveal what it was about.

    There is not a crime called sitting in a chair. However, if you have been asked to leave from social workers office and you have refused to leave, then that might be a crime called “julkisrauhan rikkominen” (invasion of public premises) or “haitanteko virkamiehelle” (obstruction of a public official) and if you refuse to leave when police orders you to leave, that might be a crime called “niskoittelu poliisia vastaan” (contumacy to the police).

  4. PS voter

    I recommend all people who live in Finland, to read trough the criminal code of Finland, so that you know what kind of laws exist and what you should or shouldn’t do, to avoid breaking them. It seems that there is an unofficial translation of the criminal code of Finland in English:

    http://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokset/1889/en18890039.pdf

    Of course, many laws are similar between countries. Usually it is illegal to for example steal and I am pretty sure that even in Iran there are some legal or at least extrajudicial means of removing unwanted persons from a public office. Of course, there are some variations and corner cases, which may differ between countries. And some things that are legal in one country, can be completely illegal in other countries. It would be foolish of me to assume that it is legal to consume alcohol in all Islamic countries. That is why it is good idea to know the laws of the country you are living, even though you might not agree or like all laws. I admit that there are some laws in Finland, which I don’t at least completely like. One of them is too lenient sentences for violent crimes. However, the laws typically allow longer sentences, but the judges tend to overuse the shortest sentences for violent crimes.

  5. Brave

    And so i call them racists and who tell they were right is racist too.
    Because sitting on a chair is not a crime, and a slim woman does not need two racist robotic police to attacke her.
    Ur curt , ur law, ur judge, all racists

    • PS voter

      Sitting in a chair can be a crime, if you have been asked to leave and you refuse to leave. Were you asked to leave before policemen came there and took you away?

      Do you think that in any country, police or somebody else will not come to take you out if refuse leave when they ask you to leave? For example, if I went to a doctors office and then refuse to leave their office, when they ask me to leave, and other patients are waiting their turn or the office is closed for the day, do you think there is any country where they would let me stay in the doctors office, against their wishes as long as I want to?

  6. Brave

    But PS voter,
    Would u feel and tell like this to ur wife if something like this happens to her?
    What about ur children?
    Ur sister?
    Brother?
    Cousins? Ur beloved ones?
    What about yours? U like two big polices attack u and insulting u infront of others, u like it?
    So u will feel great in jail? and next day u will send a beautiful card plus some flowers to those racists????
    Robot man
    They raped my spirit, i wont forget it never ever and u tell they done right yes????
    Do u know anything about humanity? What about morals? What about respect to a woman?
    Oh here is Finalnd, okay okay
    And u and all people tell they were right are my enemies i have no doubts .
    U can support them in ur heart soul and with ur words in real and on net…. who cares????
    UR all under my feet, like some balck points.
    But i know u very well…. u all have wooden brains
    However i wish peace for u and ur beloved ones because am not racist, i wish u and this country peace because i am not like u, thats why we are different we think and behave so different….
    U r full of hate and am full of love.
    I wish my enemies a comfort life, joy and happiness
    youhoooooooooo am free in my mind…love meeeee

  7. Brave

    voter – temporary resident on May 16, 2013 at 8:56 pm

    Sitting in a chair can be a crime, if you have been asked to leave and you refuse to leave. Were you asked to leave before policemen came there and took you away?

    Do you think that in any country, police or somebody else will not come to take you out if refuse leave when they ask you to leave? For example, if I went to a doctors office and then refuse to leave their office, when they ask me to leave, and other patients are waiting their turn or the office is closed for the day, do you think there is any country where they would let me stay in the doctors office, against their wishes as long as I want to?

    Ur example is far a way from my hard experience stuffs in Finalnd.
    U cant even imagine what am talking about… in ur life all is okay, u hav eright to fight against fact because u never taste fact in ur life.
    Do u try to wash my brain with ur cheap examples ???
    What a simpel argue.
    Ur police cant do this with a Finnish person, he cant just touch a woman in this kind of situation? Because they need reason so without reason they done a big crime, u understand it PS voter??? They done crime and u tell they done right and it was like a office an doctor and next patients????
    I am not surprsie with ur answers… u all say same
    even in 45th century u will again tell this…. Its 21th century where r u PS voter???? Even in stone age a man could think better than u…
    Stone age… stone race ha ha ha

  8. PS voter

    Would u feel and tell like this to ur wife if something like this happens to her?

    I recommend all people to obey the law and I warn persons I care for, what can be the consequences of breaking law. And usually resisting officers is not good idea and will cause trouble for you. You should break law only for very good reasons and only after careful thought. I don’t think most people have often if ever good enough reasons to break the law.

    And there is nothing racist in removing unwanted person who refuse to leave. The same consequences happen regardless of the ethnicity of the person. Calling everything and everybody racist, when you have troubles in your life, is too easy explanation. If you had done the same in your Iran and they would have removed you from the office, would you call them racists as well? And if you have been convicted of a crime, don’t you feel that there has been anything wrong in your own actions?

  9. Brave

    U have a broken law in Finalnd, a broken and sick law.
    Yes u r racists.
    Even a child knows that he should not attack a person who is sitting on chair.
    In my country they wont attack a woman on a chair, not even will call to police becasue police will laugh at them.

    Ha ha ha i done a crime…. but they done their best why they throwing me in their car then?
    Why they kept me in jail then?
    Why the insulted me in a year and then made a court against me?
    What they wanted tell me and to the social?????
    What they wanted to prove it for us, for me, for u, for others?????
    A racist word on a net is a pain for u????? But attack on my body and spirit is okay and right and law yes_?????
    Ur racist PS voter

    • PS voter

      In my country they wont attack a woman on a chair, not even will call to police becasue police will laugh at them.

      If a woman refuses to leave doctors office and just sits in a chair, they would let her to stay there for hours, days, maybe even years, when other patients are waiting for their turn or when doctor wants to close the office and go home? I have hard time believing that and I am sure I am not the only one.

  10. PS voter

    Ur example is far a way from my hard experience stuffs in Finalnd.
    U cant even imagine what am talking about…

    Well, you have not helped by not revealing any facts of what happened. If I have understood you correctly, you say only that you were convicted for sitting in a chair, but not saying what was the name of the crime you were convicted. And you aren’t revealing why there was both police and social workers and why policemen come there and took you away. I am sure that there was some reason for that and getting convicted in a court. I can just wonder why you are not willing to give any context for the events.

    Ur police cant do this with a Finnish person, he cant just touch a woman in this kind of situation?

    Well, you haven’t told me what was the situation. Where were you sitting, why policemen came there, were you asked to leave etc. If a Finnish woman or man commits a crime, policemen can come and arrest them. And they can touch persons even without arresting, for example when removing persons without arresting, escorting drunken persons etc.

    Because they need reason so without reason they done a big crime, u understand it PS voter???

    There doesn’t need to be big crime or even a small crime for a police to touch you. And if you were convicted in a court, it sounds to me, that there was some kind of crime. Could you tell us the name of the crime that is mentioned in court decision?

  11. Brave

    Racist man, PS voter
    for first time in ur life just open ur eyes
    I have done no crime and ur not GOD to sitting here and asking me ur question, u cant try to make a nobel prize for yourself.
    The name of the crimd????? My dark skin
    The name of the crime…. being stranger
    The name of the crime …. sitting on a chair .
    What u want to hear_???
    U want to hear that i stolen something????? Then UR very cruel.
    U want hear that i was drunk… then give up… i am a sporty person never drink alcohol…
    U want to hear that i said something impolite to them… oh am sorry i should tell but i did not i been completely polie thats why they abused me, i did not that i have right to defending me, i did not know that i can tell dont touch me with ur dirty hands, i had stress, i been alone, i afraid, they were around me an d were talking about me,i been shock… whats going on?????i been there for i have appointment time… i been so tired, sick and knew there is something wrong and something will happen to me, so i was very careful to dont make ur polices angry, but ur racist ones had allergy with my colour and balck hair, i foregt to chnage my hair to blonde and put a blue lens in my eyes before i go there, that was the name of the ur crime, YOUR CRIME

    They raped my spirit if u have one drop blood in ur body u should understand what my words mean.
    NOW
    Close ur smelly mouth

  12. PS voter

    The name of the crimd????? My dark skin
    The name of the crime…. being stranger
    The name of the crime …. sitting ona chair .
    What u want to hear_???

    I am sure that the court decision doesn’t say that the name of the crime you were convicted was “dark skin” as there isn’t crime called “dark skin”. Why not tell the real name of the crime in court decision instead of your distorted and vague version of the events?

    And if you truly feel that injustice has been done to you, why not send the court decision papers to Enrique of Migrant Tales and explain him why you think that there has been some kind of injustice. He could then scan relevant pages of the court decision with your name and other personally identifiable information removed and publish article about the case.

    And I never said or even hinted that you had been under influence of alcohol or stolen something.

  13. Joonas

    I have to agree with PS voter on this one, at least until more facts are presented. Police can’t just arrest you for being different color, it’s just not possible. If it would be true, human right activists and EU would be all over the case. The police should have an official reason why you were sentences to the court. If you think the reason is false, then fine, but there must be an official reason why you were arrested.

    And Brave, calling everyone racist doesn’t help your case at all. It actually only make things worse for people who are facing racism, because you are taking away their credible. PS voter has not used any insulting words against any race/nationality/region in this discussion. He did not insult you in any point. He presented valid arguments and questions, but you are not willing to discuss about them.

    • Mark

      Joonas

      PS voter has not used any insulting words against any race/nationality/region in this discussion. He did not insult you in any point. He presented valid arguments and questions, but you are not willing to discuss about them.

      I don’t see this as the objective truth, here. What PS Voter says is probably right, in that the likely ‘crime’ was obstruction or something similar. However, it is also clear from what Dana has said that her perception was that she was there for an appointment and that she was not being ‘obstructive’, had not argued with anybody, but had rather gone there seeking help. The response was a police officer whose only concern appears to have been to physically remove her from the premises, in a way that was even acknowledged by the staff as ‘heavy handed’. Dana’s perception was that this ‘rough handling’ was itself a basis for a complaint, but rather than have this dealt with, she was charged with [probably something like] obstruction. So that was her punishment for daring to challenge the heavy handedness of the police.

      Now that doesn’t clarify everything, but it certainly raises a lot of important questions that so far, PS Voter has not gone anywhere near dealing with: Why was there a misunderstanding? Why is the response of the welfare authorities to call the police? Why have the police not attempted to first communicate with Dana in a respectful way aimed at diffusing and not escalating any difficulties? Why has her complaint about ‘heavy handedness’ resulted in her being prosecuted for obstruction?

      Several factors are clear to me. Touching a woman from an Islamic country like Iran is a very grave invasion of privacy, and I well understand Dana using the word ‘raping my spirit’, particularly given the heavy handed nature in which she was handled. That this particular Finnish policeman seemed to have no sensitivity to this fact in any way and did not first seek to resolve the issue in a sensible fashion is a gross failure in cultural sensitivity and basic humanity. Citizens are not sheep to be herded according to the ‘silent’ whim of police officers. Should the police be culturally sensitive? Yes. Indeed, any woman in Finland would hope to not be man-handled by the police without first having received some kind of fair warning. Is there a point where physical restraint is inevitable – probably, but the threshold for this kind of response appears to be low. It is Dana’s belief that it is low ESPECIALLY because of her skin colour, and that she believes the threshold would not be so low for an ordinary Finnish citizen. Right or wrong, it is a valid question, Joonas. Some racism IS about different thresholds for behaviour, especially negative behaviour.

      And Brave, calling everyone racist doesn’t help your case at all.

      I agree. I also see that people are not working very hard to understand her position – indeed, PS Voter basically told her, ‘you committed a crime, what do you expect?’ He thinks this is reasonable, but actually, it completely individualises the problem, making it entirely Dana’s problem, and ignores or deflects any attention from looking at the ‘institutional’ questions involved in how this situation came about. I’m not saying that PS Voter wasn’t trying to get more information, he was – ABOUT THE CRIME, not about the other circumstances. It’s that ‘selectivity’ that is very troubling for me. That’s not good enough. We should not be afraid to look at individual factors and factors in the system. Is it right that a woman sitting on a chair is seen as such a threat that it is okay to physically and ‘violently’ remove her, arrest her and take her to jail for the day? There are some very serious questions there about the kinds of behaviour that are being criminalised. Remember, Dana was desperate and went to the social offices seeking support and help – the end outcome was a day in Jail. Is that really the kind of outcome we would happily consider acceptable? I don’t think so.

      Dana has very little power in this situation. The system failed her. It left her physically and emotionally abused. In this situation, calling people like PS Voter a racist for not even beginning to try to understand this experience from her point of view is understandable, though I don’t think it helps the discussion in any way. But how ironic that PS Voter is allowed to ‘continue’ this emotional abuse by focusing entirely on what he thinks Dana DID WRONG, on why she is guilty, on why she DESERVED to be treated this way, and there is no rebuke of PS Voter, but Dana’s accusations of ‘racist’ are immediately seized upon as further evidence that she must have deserved her treatment.

      This is a very negative and downward spiral for Dana. All it takes is a little bit of heart and understanding to get closer to the bottom of this. Perhaps then, Dana will not be left to assume that the only explanation for this sudden ‘freezing’ of humanity of these Finns is because she is from Iran. Exactly like she said, if this was PS Voter’s sister, he would take a different approach!

      The problem here is that the word ‘racist’ is so charged and when it is thrown collectively at Finns that no-one can step outside their sense of ‘national outrage’ to actually exercise some compassion! Let’s be bigger than that. Perhaps then, Joonas and PS Voter, you will see that Dana is a real human being who is feeling very let down by her experiences, and perhaps with some good reason. Let’s be open to that. Why not?

  14. Joonas

    @Mark

    Thanks for the reply. I probably could have rephrase my message better and not be that hot-headed. I just sometimes get annoyed by people who are using word “racism” or “racist” as an insult word in every context. It is something what should be used only when racist actions are done (skinhead beating up a foreigner, someone calling you with N-word, someone writing insults about minority groups etc.). If it used everywhere, it loses its meaning.

    I tried reading all Dana’s messages, but it wasn’t clear to me what exactly happened. I have a huge trust on Finnish police and it would sound insane to me if they could charge her only being a foreigner. Of course, it is always small possibility the police is racist, but even then, they couldn’t charge her without proper reason. I wouldn’t call the police racist, if they didn’t use any insulting and were doing their job. There is something missing from the story. Without that missing piece it is hard to say if Dana’s concern’s are valid or if there has been a misunderstanding.

    Anyway, I would still recommend Dana to avoid insulting other people in MT even they might disagree with her.

    • Mark

      Thank you Joonas for being prepared to look at your own reactions and for taking more time to see it from both sides. The rights and wrongs are not easy to establish as bystanders, and when they challenge existing beliefs (especially positive beliefs), it’s even harder.

      Particularly troubling in this case is that Dana approached the police to complain of heavy handedness and was, it seems, prosecuted in response. The connection between those two aspects of the case should be investigated properly, though it is inherently difficult to show foul play in this situation, I would think.

      Nevertheless, why Dana was not apparently given an adequate explanation of her situation or the potential consequences of any kind of insistence on her part, I don’t know. Many ‘helpless’ people feel desperate when Social Services appears to completely fail them or calls for help. Sometimes, the only response that one seems to have left is to just sit there.

      I’ve actually done the same thing, when I was 17 years old – and literally destitute, arguing over a ‘constructive dismissal’, where I left an abusive employer but ended up not receiving any income support because I had left my job and the reasons were not considered valid. My ‘sit in’, which lasted several hours, resulted in a more senior member of staff taking up the case and making changes to the way it was being processed. Instead of being 6 weeks with absolutely no income, no home and no food, I was 3 weeks destitute. I had already sold my valuable belongs to pay for the first weeks rent, and I left the job thinking it was the only sensible thing I could do, to give me the time to improve my situation – though unbeknown to me that I would be left completely destitute. I was actually earning less than half the ‘minimum wage’ salary that was later introduced, just to give you an idea of the level of exploitation that I found myself in. I was being constantly lied to about wage increases and the nature of the employment contract I was originally employed under. In the UK, there is a path out of that called ‘constructive dismissal’, i.e. you walk out. But actually getting it recognised by the Welfare Services was another matter altogether.

      Anyhow, the point is that calling the police appears to have been an extreme reaction. Perhaps there are things we don’t know, but Dana seems like a principled and sensible person to me, someone who works hard and also works hard to see the good in people and in her situation. If we cannot respond to a cry for help from someone like Dana, then who is our compassion being saved up for?

      Anyhow, I do agree again about your caution over the use of the word racism, and also the danger of it being watered down. But there are other sides to racism that people can be reluctant to consider, such as the institutional aspects and whether there was an institutional failure. I think people are right to ask questions of Dana. But it seems to that the appeals process hasn’t brought any sense of justice either, and so I can understand that Dana starts to be fed up, especially if people are immediately jumping to the defence of the system and completely blanking themselves to any notion that the system might have failed in this instance. This is exactly why some foreigners give up on Finns and end up being ‘racist’ themselves. But let’s not forget that Dana has been through a difficult experience, a court case, a night in jail, the indignity of physical restraint – these are not easy things to come to terms with, especially when you have gone with heavy heart and probably a degree of humiliation looking for support from state authorities. People don’t like to be helpless. This notion of foreigners just trying to get everything they can is poisonous and false.

      Some people might accuse me of double standards in defending Dana’s ‘racism’. But we are not talking about Finland’s keyboard warriors and their fake outrage and subsequent racist remarks over the crimes of ‘ungrateful’ foreigners. I find it hard to be ‘compassionate’ about that kind of ideological racism. I’m sorry, but I do not see their suffering, though I do see their manipulation of other people’s suffering. In Dana’s case, I clearly see she has suffered and still suffers, and some people just don’t seem to care, or only seem intent on reinforcing the idea that she must be a criminal.

  15. ALWILBGOOD

    To stop wherever you going to follow a driver who honks at you is mental. Never heard of it. Was he already mad at something? This guy needs to be checked at determine his level of hate if there is something like that.
    I usually honk back when I get honked at by a maniac and we continue to where the eff we goin. When theres is evil stare coming from this maniac I give a more powerful voodoo smile in return.
    Driver are allowed to honk when necessary.

  16. Brave

    PS voter – continuous resident on May 16, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    The name of the crimd????? My dark skin
    The name of the crime…. being stranger
    The name of the crime …. sitting ona chair .
    What u want to hear_???

    I am sure that the court decision doesn’t say that the name of the crime you were convicted was “dark skin” as there isn’t crime called “dark skin”. Why not tell the real name of the crime in court decision instead of your distorted and vague version of the events?

    And if you truly feel that injustice has been done to you, why not send the court decision papers to Enrique of Migrant Tales and explain him why you think that there has been some kind of injustice. He could then scan relevant pages of the court decision with your name and other personally identifiable information removed and publish article about the case.

    And I never said or even hinted that you had been under influence of alcohol or stolen something.

    @ ps voter, judge of judges

    Court was against me, court was standing for police, court was insulting me in a fear circle, i had not a lawyer with me, because my first lawyer closed my case, she was sure like u and Joonas are…U r all sure about ur police and law because u r all hate me.
    Court twisted me and insulted me when did not answered me in a year, i even did not know that court is against me and am who done a crime, that was very ridiculous.
    Social did not gave me lawyer because i had only right once to get a lawyer and my lawyer very quickly closed my case.
    I lived full of stress and suffer for a year.. all my moment was fear, stress, because i been alone, because all the time i did knock doors, i tried tried tried… because i wanted save me, because i knew everything will be against me, because i did not want die, because i wanted be alive and support myself.
    I did not know what shall i to do????
    Completely being alone,
    I had me, my PC and net.
    I was searching on net all the time.
    Here and there
    Sent messages
    I thought okay i will go to parliament, because could not find a way
    I wnet
    First they wanted all copy of my papers, i gave them an d quickly they sent my papers back to me to my home address with a letter on it, blah blah blah this is not belong to us, huh
    They put their knife in the middle of my wounds,oh so tahts it, oh so tahats racist, oh i got whats the mean of racist and hate, oh i had no right in here not at all.
    I was wondering what shall i to do??? To who shall i ask???
    Because i just wanted be alive.
    Because i was living on a thin line, a line full of hate, a rain of hate was on me, every thing told me NO,
    Again i find ombudsman… no-one told me about this… i had no-one to ask my questions.
    I went there, gave all copy of things and then they called me no we cant, go to sosialimiesasia… ha ha ha
    sosiaalimies asia already told me that they cant support me , they cant give me a lawyer.
    I had only one week until court.
    It was i am living with death
    still am suffeing, why polices touched my legs????? WHY my legs???they should nnot touch me at all, why they done that? in that time when a police twisted my hand i just could tell pain pain.
    I was a balck theatre over there, alive theatre and my hunters were around me.
    I am a woman i been alone,they were like dracula.
    I just been shock between social workers and polices, i could not undersatand except i just trying to keep me on chair like chair was a safe place for me.
    However i had a week, i thought about red cross and i got nothing for help, i told how can i go to court without a lawyer??
    Even i was happy if if if only some one come with me … because it was very veryyyyy hard to wake up in that day, and go to court… i was going to give myself to my enemies an dhad not other choice, i was going to present me with body and soul to my hunters, i was going to watching my soul under attack,i was going to aplace that i had no-one to support me there, i was going with my feet to give my heart and blood with polite and respect.
    I wa sgoing to a law that did not care about what happened to me, i was going to a law that my name was not there, my colour was not there, me was not exist for this law.
    I went… that wa sthe only thing i could do… to show i am, i am here, i am alive, am brave, u can do whatever u want and i know it but i use my all power to come and standing for me even i cant help me…. it was who was with me… so i was not alone.
    Finally the hard day came…
    And was a tragedy
    sure curt was with police.
    I cant explain my experience with my words on here.
    How i felt in court??? saw me in the middle of hate, but GOD why court was againt me, it was me who complaining to court for justice? Why justice is againt me????
    PSvoter what do u think U think am a child and will copy my case here???? for sitting on a chair i got a looong time punishment and u tell me come and show me ur papers?????
    Its completely not safe even a 3 days old baby know that, so u think i will put me on a danger line????
    Oh because ur curious… just that… u just try so hard to know who am I?
    Thats all
    No-one except me can feel ur hate about me.
    I feel it so strongly u try to hunting me.
    Its a big miracle that am still alive, even myself cant believe it.
    I was completely under ur system control, everything was against me, nothing was with me,no-one.
    Court decision is a happiness for u, because u r all same same.
    I used to get attack in Finalnd, i used to ur hate, i used to ur insults, i used to ur words.
    AND now learn this from me and listen to me carefuly
    Facts
    Never ever a racist one tell am a racist and i hate ur colour.
    Never ever a racist one tell i hate u go out of my country.
    Now u try to find me and hunt me and make yours a hero yes??? Hero for what? But for what???
    U cant cath a hero, am ahero, am alive , am alive, they could not kill me, hurrrrray

    It was injustice???? even this word is not enough for this case.

    I been a day in jail like a criminal person… a cold jail, with an ironic door… it was like i was fighting with death, am truly happy because am alive, yes alive, they could not kill me, am very lucky.
    U cant understand what am talking about… no u cant. u have not this power to understanding me even %1.
    Oh law in Finalnd is perfect… and perfect is a joke.

    I had record with me in court but court told me they cant open it, but before that some one opened it for me in a social office.
    Court was not interest to open a record that shows the fact.
    NOW PS voter if u cant understand anything … then thats not my problem.

  17. Brave

    Joonas – continuous resident on May 17, 2013 at 7:15 am

    I have to agree with PS voter on this one, at least until more facts are presented. Police can’t just arrest you for being different color, it’s just not possible. If it would be true, human right activists and EU would be all over the case. The police should have an official

    I dont care ur agree with PSvoter i dont care u hug PS voter on this one.
    Oh yes police cant arrest u but police arrested me and that happened, and it was me who felt the fact…. i felt his hate, i felt he hated my colour and my black hair, his felt was so clearly.
    Why social workers sent me appointment time?
    Why they called police?
    Why they did not ask some one from their own office come and talk to me and make me believe that i should leave?
    Some one that i can trust, some one that i can feel safe.
    EVEN
    There are guards every where in social offices.
    Why court made a looooooong time between me and itself???? Because they wanted that i go and tell oh i done crime i have no complain.
    Why court accepted me without a lawyer???
    Why court was against me?
    Why court was not interest to open my record ??
    Why????
    Why court was not interest to know social workers and Why they called police?
    Why and many many why????
    Human right activity???? There is not such a thing in Finalnd. OH EU??? ur joking.

    reason why you were sentences to the court. If you think the reason is false, then fine, but there must be an official reason why you were arrested.

    And Brave, calling everyone racist doesn’t help your case at all. It actually only make things worse for people who are facing racism, because you are taking away their credible. PS voter has not used any insulting words against any race/nationality/region in this discussion. He did not insult you in any point. He presented valid arguments and questions, but you are not willing to discuss about them.

    Not every one, i just call racists a racist… and will again… oh racists can drink my bblood and i cant even tell racist word???? for a word u stand fir ur brother PS voter and
    Why i cant stand for my soul??? racists raped my soul and i should not stand for me?
    I ahve pain… i cant forget it, i never told about to my family, i cant…. they are far a way, it years we r far and so shall i die with thsi pain and i must not share it, i must call racists racist and then what????*
    There is not even a right for me , not even on net,,, and net is not a real thing also, but u want stop me even on net???? So imagine how u ( U is in general…it does not mean only u… but u and others like u ) push me all the time in my real life and how i suffered with ur roles.
    The only thing i get is wound, wound after wound… and the only thing i need is safe and peace.
    PSvoter and u and many others just believe that what court and police done, was my right thats like u all one by one shooting me with ur hateful gun.

    official reason??? It was why u did not leave office when police told u leave. i could not leave because i went there with an appointment time, because i wanted solve my problem, because i thought i have right in this country.

    GOD has my back

  18. Brave

    joonas,
    And Brave, calling everyone racist doesn’t help your case at all. It actually only make things worse for people who are facing racism, because you are taking away their credible.

    U know what?
    If u r a human who knows right and wrong then u should not judge me because others done wrong and again u should not judge others because i used racist word for ur beloved brother.
    So u clearly tell me that curt and ur law could not see me as a human because other foreigners done a worng in Finland.
    I knew that
    Ur police had allergy with me, ur court, ur law, ur judge, simply because i have a balck hair and a dark skin.
    Everybody thought am a muslim, even am not but my colour and hairs shows that am coming from a muslim country.
    So i understand very well that judging muslim is completely wrong, judging people with their religion is very cruely,People are free to follow whatever they want, GOD gave us free will.

    I told u…. my colour was my crime.
    Thats the whole story.

  19. Joonas

    @Mark – “Perhaps there are things we don’t know, but Dana seems like a principled and sensible person to me, someone who works hard and also works hard to see the good in people and in her situation.”

    I do not know Dana in person, only what she has written here. I can believe she is principled and hard working person, but I wouldn’t call her “sensible” based on what she has written here. I would say she might be dramatized person and as you know, many dramatized persons are not the most sensible people for understandable reasons.

    @Dana – “i had not a lawyer with me, because my first lawyer closed my case, she was sure like u and Joonas are…U r all sure about ur police and law because u r all hate me.”

    I do find it strange that you did not have a lawyer with you and I do not know the details why your lawyer closed the case. It is not hate, Dana, if I ask more details from your case. Do you know why your lawyer closed the case? I mean, the official reason.

    – still am suffeing, why polices touched my legs????? WHY my legs???they should nnot touch me at all, why they done that? in that time when a police twisted my hand i just could tell pain pain.

    If the person is not willingly leaving the premises, the police has the right to use mild force to do that. From poliisi.fi:

    http://www.poliisi.fi/poliisi/home.nsf/pages/6CE2802E84A05952C2256C370038FCFC?opendocument

    “When on duty, the police have the right in certain situations to use forcible means that can be considered justifiable. In determining this justifiability, the factors considered include the importance and urgency of the duty, the dangerousness of the resistance being shown and the available resources.

    The police are entitled to use forcible means in order to

    overcome resistance
    remove a person from a scene
    apprehend a person
    prevent a person who has lost his/her liberty from escaping
    remove an obstacle
    prevent an imminent crime
    prevent some other dangerous act or event.”

    Did the police cause any bruises, scars or any other visible injuries to you?

    – Not every one, i just call racists a racist… and will again… oh racists can drink my bblood and i cant even tell racist word????

    So far I have not seen any proof of racist motivated (physical or mental) attacks. According to you police acted as they are trained: they removed the person who was not willingly leaving the place. You might feel what happened to you is injustice, but wouldn’t call it racist.

    – There is not even a right for me , not even on net,,, and net is not a real thing also, but u want stop me even on net????

    How do I stop you on internet? You have every right comment here or any other places on internet. But it also means I have every right to disagree with you, if I do not agree with your views.

    – official reason??? It was why u did not leave office when police told u leave. i could not leave because i went there with an appointment time, because i wanted solve my problem, because i thought i have right in this country.

    If the police tells you to leave the premises, it doesn’t matter if you have an appointment. The same law goes to everyone who lives in this country. If you refuse, they are entitled to use force to remove you.

    – So u clearly tell me that curt and ur law could not see me as a human because other foreigners done a worng in Finland.

    Where do I say such a thing?

    – judging people with their religion is very cruely,People are free to follow whatever they want, GOD gave us free will.

    I agree. I’m not religious person myself, but I do believe people have right to practice their religion on their freetime as long as it doesn’t break any Finnish laws.

    • Mark

      Joonas

      I can believe she is principled and hard working person, but I wouldn’t call her “sensible” based on what she has written here.

      I think are being patronising. I think that Dana is emotional, not dramatic. She reacts to things on an emotional and honest way – if she is scared by something, she says so, if she feels hostility, she says so. I think a lot of Finns and Europeans in general tend to hide their emotions much more, and show a very controlled face to the world. Perhaps that is the way to get on.

      For whatever reasons, Dana felt threatened and confused in the situation, and the staff thought to call the police, who then proceeded to remove her in a very heavy handed fashion, for which she had recorded evidence, which was not admissable at her court hearing for ‘obstruction’. Perhaps they thought it was another case, and that that had to be decided by a public prosecutor. I don’t know. What I do know is that the social services rather than support Dana and try to deal with her in a caring and respectful manner instead chose to escalate the situation by calling the police. In the face of that kind of authority, Dana went into a ‘sit in the chair and do nothing mode’. That from a psychological point of view is actuall perfectly understandable – people talk of fight or flight in the face of confrontation, but ‘freeze’ is actually also a well-observed instinctive response to a feeling of intense threat. The ‘chair’ becomes her point of safety and she clings to it. Police interpret that not as a panic response, but a form of passive aggression.

      Again, the issue for me is what the threshold is for initiating this kind of response by the authorities and also how she is dealt with afterwards. It seems that nobody wanted to understand how Dana was seeing the situation, and yet she was a ‘client’ of the social the services. In my view, they clearly failed her. This does not appear to be the actions of someone who has gone down the offices with an attitude of entitlement, swearing and cursing, demanding to have their needs met. This sounds like a fairly shy and timid person who very much needed help, but was unable to get much of a response other than heavy handedness all round. Who is to say that Dana hadn’t had experiences in Iran that made her fear authorities and therefore would not have the same kind of responses and understanding of the situation as a Finn might.

      Joonas, you seem all too eager to stand in judgement. Talking about the rights of the police is one thing, but we do not live in a police state. We understand the police’s powers, to remove a drunk, or remove someone from a domestic dispute – but a client of social services who is trying to fulfill an apointment? And then to prosecute her afterwards? That’s very strong arm tactic that as a citizen I find very troubling.

      If the police tells you to leave the premises, it doesn’t matter if you have an appointment.

      I don’t agree. I think that the job of the police is to maintain the peace and to resolve the situation, not wade in and simply demand a person leaves – that’s very very poor level of policing. There appears to have been very little discussion with Dana. Telling a person who is desperate, alone, in a foreign country just to ‘leave’ does not strike me as a very compassionate response. To prosecute her for ‘resisting’ by ‘sitting in her chair’ is just overreach of the worst kind. It’s completely out of proportion. A court case is itself an incredibly stressful event. Joonas, you seem to defend a system that is completely lacking in common sense, compassion and even constructive capacity to respond adequately to people’s problems. We are talking about SOCIAL services, a safety net, a system of PROTECTION for vulnerable people. Into this context, you bring the strong arm of the law and blind yourself entirely to the utter contradiction in the situation.

      Maybe we will have to disagree. I do think that there are a lot of unanswered questions, and I’m perfectly fine with people asking Dana those questions. Perhaps Dana’s anger and belief that racism was the cause of the hostility is just getting people’s hackles raised and they are forgetting their humanity. But Finland is too bloody sensitive about this accusation – when the reality is that we all know that there are plenty, yes plenty, of Finns who have very negative attitudes to foreigners, many working in public services, and to imagine that this NEVER affects the level of service that people get is just, well, indefensible.

      So far I have not seen any proof of racist motivated (physical or mental) attacks.

      I very much doubt you will see proof. I doubt the policeman made any racist remarks or the staff. The fact that remains though is that this person was left physically and emotionally scared by a situation of abusive use of authority in response to a person in need, a ONE YEAR court process, and criminal conviction and all of this for daring to go there and ask for help. I am disgusted by this outcome. It should not happen. Society has to have a different answer than to use all the power of an enormously powerful state system to ‘keep citizens in their place’. This woman wanted help, Joonas! Perhaps Dana will tell us what help she went looking for.

  20. Brave

    I do find it strange that you did not have a lawyer with you and I do not know the details why your lawyer closed the case. It is not hate, Dana, if I ask more details from your case. Do you know why your lawyer closed the case? I mean, the official reason.

    Joonas,
    It was like …there was a knife in me and i could not remove it to out and again u tell it was not a racist??? So was it love? First they attacked me then they closed my case, then they closed all doors.. even ombudsman sent my papers back to me, ur parliament too, i could not find any help no/where and they made a court against me… was not that racist? In ur culture and country and morals u call it this a law? Dont u see they all broke the law and they all were in union? and believe it or not ur law supported racists and so insulted me.
    My first lawyer… i just met her once…
    She told me on phone like what u tell Joonas and did not believe me she also told me i cant go to their office again for asking other lawyer, means i had only one time to get a lawyer for free from their office.
    and then social did not accept to pay for a lawyer when i been close to my court time i was speaking with a sosiaalimies asia about it and she told me they cant pay for a lawyer, we were talking on phone also she told me she has no feel about what happend to me.
    …………………….
    If the person is not willingly leaving the premises, the police has the right to use mild force to do that.

    Joonas why u dont attention that police was racist? Police has no right to attack me, police has no right to make me feel pain on my body.
    They had no right to do that with me…even in jail he was making fun at me when they wanted take off my shoes and jacket because it was hard to me i had bracelet on my hands and my hands were behind my back.
    and inside jail so hardly he could open the bracelet easily and others help him so.
    Oh so police can attack a woman and they can touch her legs and body yes?
    Here is jungle? or we living in 21th century and europa?
    Or they are monsters? I tell u they are monsters.
    However u cant understanding me whats my mean about they touched my body and legs… so no more argue except last words… my body was and is important for me am not a stuff, am worthy for me and my family, my body is my completely and exteremly private place.An utter private place.

    U just listen to me carefuly Joonas
    They did not need call to police, police did not need come to there, even police first told them why u called us??this matter is not belong to us…. but they were talking to eachothers Finally police attacked me… i been polite to them , respected them,i did not move from my chair, so why they attacked me?
    They were racist, it was clear they did not like a human like me., i myself got that, u cant understanding this… u Joonas u only u can understand a person and his behave on u so i cant tell… ur right or wrong because it is what u get it in u…
    So i got it in me, so people who tell about racist they know it, they get it in themsleves, they know its racist.
    We human have this ablility..
    ye sit comes miss understanding also… but in my case it was not because only hate can attack me not a miss understanding.
    Now u know and u… and am not explaining this to u for any benefit from u…NO… but i just do that for humanity because for me this is finish and i wont forget that never ever( when am talking abouit i just feel it pain in the middle of me )
    To be continued

  21. Brave

    Did the police cause any bruises, scars or any other visible injuries to you?

    U need my blood on the floor…there was force on me… what u want more?
    So law in Finland needs blood and visible injuries??HUH
    So if someday ur wife share something like this to u and ue sure that she is not joking to u, she is suffering, and u can see she has a very bad time, again and again u will ask her oh u need to show me ur visible injuries? Looks like u dont believe that u have brain because u cant see ur brain yes???
    There are many things we cant see or touch or talk to but there r those things.
    Can u explain to me what is hate looks like?
    OR what about love?
    Can u explain what does mean missing?
    Or crying without tears?
    U can laugh even when ur suffering no/one can explain it why? it is it
    Believe it or not there r such a things.

    GOD was there and saw all thats enough for me.
    To be continued

  22. Brave

    So far I have not seen any proof of racist motivated (physical or mental) attacks. According to you police acted as they are trained: they removed the person who was not willingly leaving the place. You might feel what happened to you is injustice, but wouldn’t call it racist.
    Joonas u r a very fanatical with ur love and police but it cant change what happened to me,
    being open minded is a good bliss
    OH it was racist plus injustice.
    If police were not racist he could not make injustice , yes even not racist people can make injustice but Joonas ur darling police was racist.
    Tell me why am suffering why?why i suffered my all momenst with this pain?
    Because i see there was prejudice, was like something is wrong with me, he could not accept me, he could not see that am a human… even maybe he did not know but it was in him, even maybe he cant understand himself now and after that day but it was a hate in him and maybe he dont know from where he got that hate but it was about
    hate and racist.
    Joonas many people are not aware about racist in themselves…
    (U r not aware about racist in Finalnd… u cant feel it like us)
    Thats why i believe i should forgive every one immediately… and thats why i wish peace for our planet because we r not perfect but when we have opportunity we should learn and try to peace.

    How do I stop you on internet? You have every right comment here or any other places on internet. But it also means I have every right to disagree with you, if I do not agree with your views.

    U too, u have every right to be disagree with me, am not against ur rights.

    Joonas u r also just curious ( thats the only reason u have in ur argue with me ) what ever i say u will turn to ur beloved police and dear law… ( And i dont need ur help they could not kill me am happy) but i wish i could open a peace door with my words on Finland and our world, my goal is no racist we r all human beings, my goal is we r all worthy for our creator we should be thanksful, our colours are great, white balck green or dark, white balck brown or red or yellow, we are all beautiful, we should not hate our colours we should not fall in love with our colours … we r humans what we want MORE?????

  23. Brave

    Dramatized Joonas what else?

    U tell this because am a poet again something is aganist me? My talent is my crime????… OH she cant see the fact, she made literary work with her case and wrote it down as a drama story on MT for attention yes??? She has talent and she abuse her talent, oh pity pity to racist now racist is poor and am a dictator with my talent.
    Why shall i make a drama story for some people that am sure they hate me? Why shall i make a drama story without my real name if am searching some benefits? Why
    And millions other why????
    Entire why?????

    And u tell me why am a poet?
    And i cant tell u why ur mathematic is good or bad, why ur a good engineer guy or a bad doctor, and also i cant tell u why
    that
    I can feel racist and
    u Joonas Cant feel it at all… but u can tell this to yours for sure.

    The END

  24. Joonas

    Dana, I read your all your messages with an interest. I’m sorry, if you feel that I wanted to hurt you and it was not my intention. I can clearly see you are dramatized by the event that happened to you and I don’t want to open more your old wounds.

    I hope you will get over it some day, even it might take a long time. Hopefully you can will focus on the positive things in life, so this incident doesn’t eat your entire spirit. I hope you can also some day see that not all Finns are not racist and bad people, even it might seem so currently. Take care!

  25. Brave

    Joonas,
    All is okay, no worry, we argue on MT because we think and see and feel different but it does not mean we r right or wrong.
    Somethings are very ugly, dirty and bad for me and with my morals but it could be very normal for u.
    About law and police
    U believe law is holy and u completely trust it.
    I dont believe law i live with my morals, like i dont believe religion because i cant follow humans, books,roles, easily i cant, i dont know whyyyy just i know nothing can keep me in jail.
    U cant hurt me if i dont let u so.
    There is no positive things in here for me, i just myself create positive things for me and realy i gave up on Finns but i wish Finland and Finns, peace and safe for always.
    Finns are free to dont accept me… and am with freedom in freedom side, actually i believe to human rights and i think this is ur right to acept me or to ignoring me… now thats my idea.
    Its ur freedom of choice.

    Ahan look at me now, am not dramatic…. racist and racists are dramatic and drama.
    I am a barve human who never cares about danger ways on her goals… she just try and knock and works works works on her goals because she believes that she can , she is able, she wants do her best for her life and people around hersel because she knows this life is a miracle for her so she try seriously on her moments.

    Secondly this is a real feel that i have because a real racist war happened to me, i went there for i trust them and the appointment time( well in Finland they say appointment time appointment 🙂 time for they want show they are very importnat persons and no-one should go close to them without an appintment time but i never seen hardworker humans between Finns thats my experience)i forgot my problems because i was trying enough and seriously and i gave up on my workers, but i just respected that demons and went there like a simple woman and so they hunted me easily, Thats was a plan from them,i never doubt that.
    Because i been different in thier eyes, i could not say yes u r right, and i could not say okay okay to them,
    i knew my rights… they did not want me in their client lists, they needed a plan a plan that make me fear and far of them, so they done that.
    and now U,
    Yes i love it writing, yes i love it writing poem, yes my imagination is strong and i can dance with my words but
    This is a fact and i have papers that show this things happened to me, i have photoes…
    BUT
    I call it a nighmare…. not even this but my life in Finland
    I dont believe these things happened to me, i am just waiting to a call, a voice, a family voice that call my name and tell me hey wake up its so late, how long do u want sleep, oh
    and i open my eyes
    that was a dream, wow a nightmare
    Oh love u GOD, i was sleeping, i afraid alot i was struggeling all the time in Finalnd Ha ha ha 🙂
    breath breath deep breath
    Okay i wont sleep again hee hee la la la la
    so i have not any more pain it was just a dream
    sigh sigh they were very NERVELESS…no worry just a dream
    LOOOVE U GOD thanks