UUSI SUOMI: Uusi imaami pelkää: ”Islamofobia voi kärjistyä”

by , under All categories, Enrique

Comment: Anas Hajjar, who was appointed last month the new imam of the Islamic Society of Finland, condemned the bombings in Stockholm. He was quoted as saying in Uusi Suomi that the bombings in Sweden could fuel Islamophobia in Finland.

One of the most incredible claims by anti-Muslim groups in Europe is that Muslims are treated with kid gloves. Yes, true, they are getting preferential treatment: Devastated societies in Iraq, Afghanistan, ostracization and exclusion in Europe  and elsewhere to name a few. Some believe that the Muslims are suffering the same treatment that Communists endured in the United States and the racism that blacks suffered/continue to suffer in many parts of Europe.

What do you think?

________

Suomen islamilaisen yhdyskunnan imaami Anas Hajjar pelkää Tukholman terrori-iskun kasvattavan islamofobiaa Suomessa. Uuden Suomen haastattelussa hän penää malttia ja toivoo, etteivät ihmiset sotkisi enemmistön ajatuksia vähemmistön tekoihin.

– Tämä teko on lähtöisin ymmärtämättömyydestä. Me täällä yhdyskunnassa opetamme niin muslimeille kuin valtaväestöllekin sitä, mitä islam todella on, Hajjar sanoo Uudelle Suomelle.

Marraskuun alussa valittu imaami kertoo kuulleensa tapauksesta vasta tänään, mutta sanoo pommi-iskujen järkyttäneen häntä ja koko islamilaista yhdyskuntaa syvästi.

– Tämä on järkyttävää, koska hän [pommittaja] sanoo puolustaneensa islamia, mutta keitä vastaan, Hajjar kysyy hämmentyneenä.

– Teolla on aiheutettu viattomille ihmisille pelkoa, ahdistusta ja kauhua. Se on vastoin islamin oppeja. Tuomitsemme teon jyrkästi, Hajjar sanoo.

Ruotsin islamilaiseen yhdyskuntaan Hajjar ei toistaiseksi ole saanut yhteyttä, osaksi median haastattelupyyntöjen vuoksi. Hän kertoo, ettei suomalaisen yhdyskunnan korviin ole kantautunut mitään tietoja tai edes huhuja siitä, että Tukholman terrori-iskujen tekijällä tai tekijöillä olisi yhteyksiä Suomeen.

Hajjar ei usko, että Tukholman tapaus saisi aikaan samantapaisen terrori-iskun vaikkapa Helsingissä. Sen sijaan hän pelkää, että se kasvattaa islamofobiaa entisestään Suomessa.

– Islamofobia on lisääntynyt koko ajan, ja toivottavasti se ei nyt kärjisty. En lähde arvailemaan, mihin se voisi johtaa. Toivottavasti ihmiset ymmärät sen, että vähemmistön teko ei edusta enemmistön ajatuksia, eivätkä sotke näitä keskenään.

– Tämä on niin tuore juttu, että tätä pitää käsitellä nyt kaikessa rauhassa, Hajjar kehottaa.

  1. Tony Garcia

    “What do you think?”

    Don’t know, do you think racist attach against Africans in Finland could fuel an anti-Finnish feelings among Africans?

    • Enrique

      The comments that Imam Anas Hajjar are very sensible and encouraging. If you cannot read the story, I think you should ask your wife to help you. There is one sentence in particular that you should read and weigh carefully: Uuden Suomen haastattelussa hän penää malttia ja toivoo, etteivät ihmiset sotkisi enemmistön ajatuksia vähemmistön tekoihin.

  2. JusticeDemon

    No, you Toby. It fuels anti-racist feeling in everyone with more than half a brain.

    Tony the Toby – dumber than a box of rocks

  3. Tony Garcia

    Yes and as usual, Imams comments only comes after Muslims are victims or, as far more common, criminals. Also interesting is that the victim is still in the morgue and you already run to defend the criminals.

  4. Tony Garcia

    Well, with the CCTV footage released, apparently wasn’t a terrorist attach after all, but just the Iraqi trying his new gadget.

    • Enrique

      I don’t think this is funny. An odd type of humor that plays on people’s prejudice of a group. You seem to forget we had these types of alarm clocks in Finland. Remember Eugene Schauman? But your answer to my comment about the imam is pointless and in bad taste. It shows how far out of touch you are with the situation. It is so easy to hate and distrust. You don’t need a lot of brains for that. And hey, what about the estimated over 600,000 Iraqis that died after Bush invaded Iraq?

  5. JusticeDemon

    … Imams comments only comes after …

    Hajjar’s comment was in response to a question from an interviewer, you Toby.

    If you think this is bad timing, then why didn’t you advise the journalists to interview him last Thursday instead of yesterday?

  6. Tony Garcia

    “I don’t think this is funny. ”

    I know you don’t, you just like jokes about True Finns. Your sense of humor is very limited.

    “It shows how far out of touch you are with the situation.”

    Am I? You live in your little multicultural bubble pretending nothing is happening and the Muslims are just a nice bunch whose love us. Tell us, how did the mosque talk go? Did they applaud you when you told them that Muslims, Jews and Christians are equals?

    “It is so easy to hate and distrust. You don’t need a lot of brains for that.”

    Easer is to live in denial. You don’t need guts for that.

    “And hey, what about the estimated over 600,000 Iraqis that died after Bush invaded Iraq?”

    Hummm… Let me see, they came here, get free food, house, schools, medical, etc, use the dole to build bombs, blow the shit our of us and yet we should apologies. I’m sorry but for some reason I don’t really think this line of thinking will have much popularity in Finland today.

    PS. Bottom line is: They screwed, AGAIN, and there is nothing you can do to about it…

    • Enrique

      True Finns are a PARTY while the joke you showed was about a group of people, the Palestinians. That’s the difference.

      –Am I? You live in your little multicultural bubble pretending nothing is happening and the Muslims are just a nice bunch whose love us.

      I have Muslim students and they are some of the best people I have ever met. As I told you, your fear-mongering sounds like a person speaking from another time dimension.

      –They screwed, AGAIN, and there is nothing you can do to about it…

      Yes, true, and in that screwing we got screwed as well.

  7. Tony Garcia

    Isn’t a party a group of people? Wow… What you have to go through to defend these people… I’m really sorry for you…

    “Yes, true, and in that screwing we got screwed as well.”

    Maybe in the next election we get that fixed…

    • Enrique

      By getting ourselves screwed I meant that we did that to ourselves. Mark my words: you are going to be in for a big surprise. Are you certain that Halla-aho and his merry band of xenophobes are going to save us from ourselves? Or are they coming to our rescue?

  8. Tony Garcia

    “… I meant that we did that to ourselves. ”

    So, they bomb us and still our fault. Oh well… Another point of view that I don’t really see becoming much popular, sorry…

    “Or are they coming to our rescue?”

    We don’t need any rescue, we just need Finland to stay Finland.

    • Enrique

      Tony, I am a bit worried about how you washed away a noble and courageous gesture by Imam Anas Hajjar. That gesture is the same one that I saw back in Argentina during the dirty war: a few brave souls had the courage to speak out against the violence. People like Hajjar are a threat to your world. The last thing you want is a sensible imam who has the courage to speak out against violence. How many Catholic priests do you know who condemn violence? How many priests gave their blessing when soldiers went to war to kill?

      In other world, show your respect and support to those who have the courage to speak out.

  9. JusticeDemon

    Tony the Toby

    How many bombs went off in Stockholm BEFORE Sweden chose to get involved in Mr Bush’s foreign adventures?

    Sweden is helping to wage a war. Civilians get hurt in wars. Even spoilt Brazilian rich kids with shit for brains and no life experience sometimes get hurt. Live with it or work to change the gung-ho policies of certain Western governments.

  10. Tony Garcia

    Does this “sensible” Imam says the same when talking to his group? Remain to be seeing…

    And talking about Muslims speaking out, why did you make a mockery from the article I posted here from Dr. Mahfooz Kanwar from Calgary, or the one from Dr. Taj Hargey an Imam from UK? Because both are against multiculturalism? Well, no one “sensible” would be against multiculturalism, would it? You are all for speaking out as long as the rhetoric is the usual mambo-jambo…

    Enrique if you don’t know the difference between soldiers going to war and terrorists, my friend, you desperate needs an integration course…

  11. JusticeDemon

    lol@Tony the Toby

    Does this “sensible” Imam says the same when talking to his group?

    I think it is far more likely, Toby, that YOU keep your xenophobic opinions expressed here firmly under wraps at work and in multicultural company.

    And how did you get the impression that the members of the Islamic Society of Finland cannot or would not read the public remarks of their new imam in Uusi Suomi or elsewhere? Their Finnish language skills are by and large a great deal better than yours.

    Tony the Toby – thick as two short planks

  12. Tiwaz

    -“In other world, show your respect and support to those who have the courage to speak out.”

    How about showing respect to those who have courage to speak out against multicultural rot.

    Or is this again one of the double standards you tend to spread?

    As for this Hajjar. He would get a lot more respect if he:

    A) Declared in public (and in mosque) that muslims in Finland live by Finnish law. Period. (no Sharia ANYWHERE)
    B) Told all of his flock to immediately go to Finnish authorities if they get any hints of similar activities as ones behind this bomb attack or Tampere arson.

    I have nothing against muslims, but they have to acknowledge that Finland is not Islamic society and Islamic law has no room here. And that they have to keep their own nest clean if they do not want Finns to start looking at them with dislike.

    • Enrique

      The difference between your discourse and mine is that you are aching to pick a fight. You are not interested in human rights never mind women’s rights. So all that about equality is a huge red herring.

  13. Tony Garcia

    Sorry but, I’m not the one here who believe that in the name of cultural “enrichment” a husband (Muslim of course) should have the right to dictate what the wife (wives, in many cases) and daughters should wear and to whom and when (younger as 10 years old) they should marriage.

    Yes “equality” is a red herring, I’m for all (that include Muslims) having the same rights and obligations.

    If I wanted to pick a fight I would be offending you personally, however I have to disappoint you on that, I prefer to debate your ideas instead.

  14. Tony Garcia

    However, you strategically escaped, again, from a stick point. The different option Mr Imam and Halonen are having about terrorist attach in Finland.

  15. JusticeDemon

    Tony the Toby: December 13, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    Let’s see – your criticism of the new Imam is based not on his words, but on a remark by Tarja Halonen that does not even refer to Anas Hajjar.

    This is someone you have never met, and yet you have already formed your opinion of him. That is prejudice pure and simple. It’s also so transparent as to betray a lack of basic intelligence. Tony the Toby = Thick as a brick.

  16. Tony Garcia

    My comments are based on what you have said, my friend.

    But how about the stick point? Mrs Imam says there is not the danger of an attach, Halonen says it’s just a matter of time. Who do you think it’s right?

    Also, once Mrs Imam is so concerned with “islamophobia” how about tell his buddies to stop bomb us to pieces or murder innocent people to cash insurance money? Maybe Finns would see Muslims differently if they stop such a behaviour. I think it’s worth trying, don’t you?

    • Enrique

      Do you know what Tarja Halonen said? I just saw the news in Finnish and she does not say anything that the YLE article states. She uses the conditional tense. You are becoming hysterical.

  17. Tony Garcia

    OK, my comments are relatives, aren’t they? Very well…

    So, you DO think that Muslims husbands/fathers should NOT have the right to dictate theirs wives/daughters dressing, marriage, friendship, etc. And they should NOT be able to discriminate against women.

    You are all for women’s rights, even for Muslims women, aren’t you?

    Could you please put this on the record?

    • Enrique

      Let me ask you this question: Do you have the right to impose your pretty far-right values on other people? For some reason your affirmation isn’t sincere. Why? Because behind your claims is hatred and suspicion. That kind of behavior blinds you and makes you act irrational. Can you imagine for a moment what kind of a world we’d live in if “Mr Tony” and his merry band were imposing values on others? We’d have a Neocon II on our hands.

  18. Klay_Immigrant

    Tony have you heard the news of US pastor Terry Jones (the person who threatened to burn the Qur’an) is not going to be allowed to enter the U.K. for a speech he was invited to participate in.

    While I do not agree with his threats which importantly never materialised, he also does not have any criminal record. Yet dozens of Imans are being in essence funded (via welfare) by the government to preach hatred against the West.

    The moral of the story is if you are a white Christian critical of Islam with no criminal record you will not be allowed into the U.K. by the government even when invited but if you are a Muslim living in the U.K. and preach hatred against the West and it’s values everyday, you and your family will be provided for comprehensively by the very same government. So much for equality.

    Enrique have you ever even been to a majority Muslim country? Also if Muslims are ‘some of the best people’ you have ever met then why not live in a country govern by these great people instead of backward racist xenophobic Finns. I’m sure these great people will love you to work as a journalist criticising their government and it’s policies.

  19. Tony Garcia

    Klay, that’s the beauty of multiculturalism, ban a crazy pastor who wants to burn books but welcome and pay thousands to Abu Hanza (and horde) who wants to blast to pieces innocent children.

    • Enrique

      –Lessons from Stockholm to those who think opportunity and acceptance will do wonders…

      Yes, Tony, you are right: shoot them all. Go ahead, pull the trigger.

    • Enrique

      I just called YLE about this and they claim that the president tole the journalist this but did not get it on tape. Hmmm. Now there are two big differences: There will be an attack as opposed that such an attack cannot be ruled out. If the former is true, then President Halonen knows that this will happen. It means that she has information that such a plan has been planned and will be executed. If this is the case, I think it is pretty dumb for her to reveal that the police and SUPO are on to such an attack. When she spoke of suicide attacks she also spoke of Finns that have tragically killed people at schools.

      In many respects the YLE story on the web sounds fishy. How do you resolve such a situation? You look for other media saying the same thing or pin YLE as the source. That way if Halonen was misquoted or her words were taken out of context, the culprit would be YLE not you.

  20. Tony Garcia

    “Because behind your claims is hatred and suspicion.”

    My claims? You should say this to Halonen. Nice to see that when you can’t dismiss the news, although you really tried you best, you go to personal attach. Very said…

    If you don’t get flak, you are not on the target…

    • Enrique

      What is the issue? Something that President Halonen said or was it to feed your prejudice? It is not a personal attack but something true: when one speaks in terms where prejudism and insults are the order of the day, what do you call that? Are you really concerned about the loss of lives but mainly how much hatred you can rally against your favorite punching bag?

  21. Tony Garcia

    Bottom line is:

    First: Muslims screwed big time again…

    Second: Mr Imam goes public on damage control saying that there is not danger but Halonen goes and say the opposite.

    Third: Against facts there no arguments, only personal attach…

  22. Tony Garcia

    Now YLE is Islamophobic and Halonen a dumb…

    Enrique I said this before and will say it again. If I was a director of a big company I’d offer you a job as public relations.

  23. JusticeDemon

    Tony the Toby

    Where does it say that everyone must express the same opinion as the incumbent President of Finland, Toby? Exactly how does it reflect on Anas Hajjar if he expresses some other view first? You quite evidently do not agree with everything that Tarja Halonen has said. Does this mean that you should stay out of Finland? Let’s hope so!

    Your conjecture is moronic in the extreme. The only interesting thing is that you can’t see this in your haste to criticise someone that you have never met.

    Tony the Toby: the wheel is spinning but the hamster is dead

  24. Tony Garcia

    Sorry Enrique but this mambo-jambo-naming-calling doesn’t really bothers me, you should know it by now.

    The issue is simple, Mr. Imam goes on damage control (and you echo him) but Helonen says the opposite. And you, in your frenzy to excuse everything Muslims do, before even look at what I said, dismiss the news and call me hysterical.

    Well, the problem is, you can’t beat reality with rhetoric my friend, so when I show the report from YLE you go ballistic. And this is not the first time this happens. You have burned your fingers some my times already…

    PS: Talking about favourite punching bag, does the phrase True Finns remind you anything?

  25. mace

    … The moral of the story is if you are a white Christian critical of Islam with no criminal record you will not be allowed into the U.K. …

    WRONG. One of the most famous cases of denial of entry into the UK is from Minister Louis Farakhan of the Nation of Islam. He’s black BTW. OWNED

  26. mace

    @Klay_Immigrant

    I guess Minister Louis Farakhan has been banned all these years from visiting the UK for being a white fundamental Christian!

  27. Tony Garcia

    In my opinion the Stockholm bomber together with the underwear bomber are excellent examples of the destructive power of multiculturalism. Both cases show that if you wish to become a terrorist you don’t need to go to Somalia or Afghanistan, you just need to go to study in the UK. Today one of the world’s leading exporter of extremism.

  28. JusticeDemon

    Tony the Toby

    As you are in Ireland, why don’t you explain how Islam contributed to terrorism in Belfast and Derry?

    Tony the Toby – the moron’s moron’s poster child

  29. Osmo

    The probability of a terrorist attack anywhere in the world depends on the number of Muslims living there, along with the probabilility of their radicalization. No Muslims, no terrorism – it’s simple math. I would expect this applies to Finland as well.

    Morons call others morons.

    Most terrorists are Muslims today, but most Muslims are not terrorists. Also, I would like to see more Imams speak out against terrorists, and if they do, they are more likely to be embraced by the Finnish people.

    • Enrique

      Osmo, do you see anything worng with your affirmation? No Muslims, no terrorism – it’s simple math. Let me help you with that equation: No humans, no terrorism. And hey, you forgot to mention ETA, Greece, Colombia (remember the FARC?), Argentina and a long list of other terrorist attacks in 2010 alone. But does your statement hinge on your definition of terrorism? Only Muslims commit terrorism and others don’t?

      Returning to a news story that NOBODY picked up in Finland, President Tarja Halonen is quoted in Helsingin Sanomat saying that what happened in Stockhom was a surprise and that one cannot rule out that such an attack could happen in Finland. She does not affirm anywhere else in the local media that there WILL be an attack in Finland. As I mentioned yesterday, such a statement, and coming from a head of state, is fishy.

      The likelihood of an attack in Finland was reinforced by docent Tuomas Martikainen in Iltalehti/STT.

    • Enrique

      Osmo, I am sorry to disappoint you but the latest EU Terrorism Situation and Trend Report 2009 shows that there were in 2008 515 terrorist attacks of which one was classified as committed by Islamists. Do you know who were the ones that committed the most terrorist attacks. Brace yourself: 397 by separatists! So, Osmo, your claim that “no Muslims, no terrorism” has been thrown out of the window.

  30. JusticeDemon

    Osmo

    That’s a very perceptive analysis, Osmo. It means that there has never been any terrorism in Ireland (IRA), Spain (ETA), Italy (Red Brigades) or Germany (Bader-Meinhof).

    Wasn’t Nelson Mandela also a terrorist?

  31. Tony Garcia

    “No humans, no terrorism.“

    The usual left-wing baloney (yes, we know, you are not on the left) – Lets blame everyone so we don’t offend the terrorists.

    “…that one cannot rule out that such an attack could happen in Finland. “

    Exactly, but some one did, so now who we should listen to?

    • Enrique

      –Exactly, but some one did, so now who we should listen to?

      There is a big difference when using the present tense and conditional. She did not rule out that such an attack COULD (Note: not will) happen.

      Left-wing boloney? Please tell me which party I belong to? I have never been a card-carrying party member anywhere.

  32. Tony Garcia

    Enrique,

    I have been in contact with some friends from Tampere, 2 work for Nokia and one for Tietoenator. Yesterday the main subject during coffee break talks was those “best people you ever met”.

    Based on your experience in journalism and 30 years in Finland, do you think people are agreeing with you and Mr Imam, or do you think they are having a more… lets say… “critical” view about your best buddies?

    PS. If you think my jokes are offensive…

  33. Tony Garcia

    Yes she said it will/could (this is still uncertain) but he said no danger of it. So, no matter what she really said (conditional or not) she dismissed what he said. For me this is just another case of cheep Muslim damage control. Case closed…

    I don’t know your party, you told us you are not on the left, but this idea of blame everyone to protect terrorist feelings is a left-wing baloney…

    • Enrique

      –For me this is just another case of cheep Muslim damage control. Case closed…

      Wrong. This is what you call meticulous journalism.

  34. JusticeDemon

    Tony the Toby

    Once again, you haven’t bothered to read what Anas Hajjar is quoted as saying before trying to find some reason to condemn it. You do that because he is an educated, moderate Moslem: the kind you are afraid to debate.

    The only difference here is that you condemn Anas Hajjar for saying something only because the President of Finland said something else the next day. This shows an extraordinary degree of ignorant prejudice, even by your standards, Toby.

  35. JusticeDemon

    Tony the Toby

    So the Garda should be able to smash down your doors in the middle of the night because someone has told them that you think the Irish government should be more right wing?

    Based on the details supplied in that story, Toby, the raids were based on suspicions of thought-crime. YOU obviously lack the nous to appreciate what that means, and perhaps you will continue to do so (I doubt that Brazilian rich kids ever develop the required degree of civic awareness anyway), but more astute readers will ask whether the targets of these raids will be entitled to compensation when no evidence is found of any specific lawbreaking.

    How can you be so thick?

  36. Klay_Immigrant

    Look you guys are completely missing the point. Ofcourse there have been terrorist groups that weren’t comprised of Muslims for the Islamic cause but the difference is that these groups were mainly concerned with domestic issues in the country of their origin and didn’t take their cause and attacks internationally.

    The Muslim equivalent of separatist groups such as ETA or the IRA would be Hamas. Also most of the separatist attacks have been on specified targeted individuals who they were against such politicians or Judges not innocent unlucky bystanders who happened to unfortunately be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

    What non-Muslim terrorist groups can you say have made attacks on the innocent public in numerous countries in different continents all for the same agenda and message. That is why Islamic terrorism is much more dangerous than any other kind of terrorism. In their view anyone who doesn’t fall into their line of thinking is a target. ETA does not think that about normal Spanish people and the same for the IRA on the English public.

  37. Tony Garcia

    The report only shows that after 9/11, London, Madrid, etc, where thousands have been killed by Muslims, the authorities are focusing theirs efforts in prevent Islamic attacks. This is clearly shown by the numbers of arrests: 190 Muslims against 155 separatist.

    Another important point is which type of terrorism is more brutal and violent, in 2008 EU had 397 attacks with 4 dead. Now how many died in 9/11, how about Madrid or London or Bali?

    This is very good report that shows two important things:

    First: Muslim terrorists are still the greatest threat for our security, 1 attack alone can kill hundreds.

    Second: The best way to deal with it is the way Israel does it – Profiling.

    Enrique, thanks for the report, I think it has very important information, everyone should read it very carefully, particularly the part that says: 28 left-wings attacks against 0 from the right. 58 left-wing arrests against 0 from the right.

    Let me finish with a great quote from Ann Coulter:

    “Six imams removed from a US Airways flight from Minneapolis to Phoenix are calling on Muslims to boycott the airline. If only we could get Muslims to boycott all airlines, we could dispense with airport security altogether. “

  38. JusticeDemon

    Tony the Toby

    Your source also said this:

    We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.

    Do you agree with that, too?

  39. Osmo

    No, I don’t agree with it, but it would stop the thousands of people risking their lives (as in the recent boat disaster) to get out of those evil systems. A difference between Communist boatpeople fleeing e.g. Vietnam and Muslims fleeing Iraq and Iran is this: the people fleeing Communism are not Communists, while the people fleeing Islamic countries are still Muslims. The problem with Islamic countries is built into their religion, which none of you here seem to understand. Not that I am a Islamic scholar, I am not claiming that, but I have spent a lot of time researching Islam as the cause of the problems in these countries and the countries that these people immigrate to. It is mainly the religion that, for example, isolates the people into their own ghettos. So for example in Helsinki, Paris and London you will have Muslim areas. Fortunately, most are very peaceful and wonderful people. But, it is the caveat that is always the problem, and it will never go away – the small population that will always want to change the system for Allah. As they say, a rotten apple can spoil the barrel, and this has happened over and over again where Christian areas have been taken over by the radical elements. That is the pervasive problem that all countries will have to face in the near future, as the Muslim population explosion overtakes all of us. While we are debating these topics ad nosium, the West is asleep, and they will soon have a rude awakening if they don’t wake up.

  40. xyz

    Osmo, have you ever been an exchange student? What I realized is that people from the same country are usually sticking together. This has nothing to do with Islam but more that you have somebody you can talk to and exchange ideas in a new environment. Local people usually have their friends already…so they are not that much interested in making new friends.

    • Enrique

      –Tiwaz was a symbol of the Hitler Jugend.

      I wonder if Tiwaz could explain this.

  41. JusticeDemon

    Osmo

    I have spent a lot of time researching Islam as the cause of the problems

    That’s an interesting way to characterise your “research”. It suggests that you set out to find support for a conclusion that you had already reached.

    Now suppose I claim to have spent a lot of time researching Christian fundamentalism “as the cause of problems in the USA”. Would that sound like a fair way to conduct even-handed research?

    This characterisation, coupled with your previous claim to know of evidence showing a historical coexistence of dinosaurs and human beings, suggests that you don’t really have much idea of what counts as reliable research methodology.

  42. Tiwaz

    -“I wonder if Tiwaz could explain this.”

    Idiots the lot of you.
    Are you aware that Tiwaz is also associated with Tyr? God of Norse pantheon for you uneducated fools.
    It has been used in far more occasions that “just” nazi connotations.

    But of course fact that someone is interested in such history is beyond your limited minds which cannot reach times beyond 1939.

    Can you explain your racist attitudes (satanist)Demon and Enrique?

    • Enrique

      —Can you explain your racist attitudes (satanist)Demon and Enrique?

      You are too much, Tiwaz. I told you that it does not work blaming others for what you are.

      And hey, taking into consideration what all this boloney about race, tribe and blood did in Europe, you still dare to go around anonymously with a former Nazi symbol. Whenever you start speaking of the Finns as a “tribe” you start flirting with racism. It is nothing new.

  43. Tiwaz

    -“You are too much, Tiwaz. I told you that it does not work blaming others for what you are. ”

    Well, apparently it works for you! You are the one implicating everyone who does not bend over backwards to your opinion are either nazis or racists.

    -“And hey, taking into consideration what all this boloney about race, tribe and blood did in Europe, you still dare to go around anonymously with a former Nazi symbol. Whenever you start speaking of the Finns as a “tribe” you start flirting with racism. It is nothing new.”

    So Finns are not an ethnicity, IE tribe? Your racism knows now boundries. You are trying to deny us our identity, well that too is nothing new. You are, after all, a racist..

    And apparently you still do not grasp that Tiwaz is ancient rune, first used when there was no Germany and your native land did not exist.

    Your obsession with nazism is unhealthy. Tiwaz, like swastika, are both ancient symbols with far more history before rise of nazis than after it.

    • Enrique

      –So Finns are not an ethnicity, IE tribe?

      Please get off this boloney. Calling Finns a tribe is like accusing us of being Mongols in the Eugene Fischer tradition. All that went into the trash can after the horrors of World War 2 became evident. Tiwaz, do you believe that the Holocaust ever took place?

  44. Tiwaz

    Are you and Demon trying to imply that I am neo-nazi Enrique?

    What have I taught you about making unproven and unfounded accusations…

  45. JusticeDemon

    lol@Tiwaz

    Of all the monikers you could have chosen, Tiwaz, you fastened on one that is best known as the symbol of the Hitler Youth. You’ve been using it for years, and not only in this blog. Now it has come back to bite you in the arse, and just like neo-nazis you are desperately trying to explain it based on some alleged ancient cultural interest that you have never expressed before.

    That’s just too funny.

    • Enrique

      What kind of a question is that, Tony? Any sensible person knows that the Holocaust took place. I don’t know how many people in the world don’t believe in it. My Muslim friends believe in it because I have spoke to them about it. Placing more hatred on top of old hatred does not resolve anything.

    • Enrique

      And just as I am conscious about the Holocaust I am conscious about the suffering that the West has brought on countries like Iraq and Afghanistan to name a few. Do you really think that somebody can win a war militarily? If you do you are naive.

  46. Tony Garcia

    “What kind of a question is that, Tony? ”

    You tell me, you asked it to Tiwaz in the first place.

    “My Muslim friends believe in it because I have spoke to them about it. ”

    Humm, do they? Or is this what they told you?

    ” Placing more hatred on top of old hatred does not resolve anything.”

    Absolutely right, agree 100%, however, as usual, you tell this to the wrong person. You should tell this to those who hate Jews above everything else and want them exterminated. Tell this to those who believe that Israel, the only civilized democracy in the Middle East, should not exists.

    “Do you really think that somebody can win a war militarily? If you do you are naive.”

    Really? What ended both world wars? Evil just understand one language.

  47. JusticeDemon

    More simplistic analysis from Tony the Toby.

    Let’s explore your ignorance a bit more. Tell us the principal cause of WWII.

  48. Tiwaz

    -“Of all the monikers you could have chosen, Tiwaz, you fastened on one that is best known as the symbol of the Hitler Youth. You’ve been using it for years, and not only in this blog. Now it has come back to bite you in the arse, and just like neo-nazis you are desperately trying to explain it based on some alleged ancient cultural interest that you have never expressed before.”

    Actually, very few people associate this rune with hitler youth. Go bother some new age hippies and reveal your newfound information to them. They will be quite surprised.

    As for my cultural interest, apparently it has deluded your very small mind that I have repeatedly expressed interest in history, paleontology and so forth in this blog.

    But hey! That’s the spirit of this blog isn’t it? Screw the facts! Let’s try to bash Finns without evidence!

    Are you aware that Tiwaz was even used in one of the Marvel comics as name of a character (it was one of those Thor-series, can’t remember exact one).

    I guess Marvel is neo-nazi organization too!

    You have not answered to my question about your satanist connections…

    -“Please get off this boloney. Calling Finns a tribe is like accusing us of being Mongols in the Eugene Fischer tradition. All that went into the trash can after the horrors of World War 2 became evident.”

    Are you claiming that Finns do not have their own culture and ethnicity?

    Are you aware that genetically Finns are clearly separated from neighboring populations?
    Are you aware that culturally we are clearly separated from neighboring populations?

    Because we are. We are for all facts and purposes people with it’s own unique makeup culturally and ethnically. But specially important is our cultural heritage, as it defines us and makes us unique.

    -“Tiwaz, do you believe that the Holocaust ever took place?”

    Are you again accusing me of being nazi?
    What evidence you have to support your claim?

    Do you actually have ANY grounds for your assessment beyond your “anyone who is critical of multuculturalism is racist nazi”-dogma?

    Do you believe that Finns are not victims of immigrant racism?

    • Enrique

      –Are you claiming that Finns do not have their own culture and ethnicity?

      Did I say that? I said stop calling Finns a tribe. People who do usually flirt with racism. Since we are a tribe and defenseless, we have to fight against evil foreigners. Get off of it, Tiwaz.

    • Enrique

      -”Tiwaz, do you believe that the Holocaust ever took place?”

      Answer the question.

      Have you read your history closely? You should. It could clear up a lot of things.

  49. JusticeDemon

    Tiwaz

    Still wriggling on the hook. 🙂

    Actually, very few people associate this rune with hitler youth.

    But that’s not the point, is it? The point is that you were fully aware that the Tiwaz symbol was used prominently by the Hitler Youth when you chose to adopt that name. You didn’t choose the name by accident, nor out of admiration for some comic book character.

    Interesting that you dodged Ricky’s question about the Holocaust.

    lol@Tiwaz

  50. Tiwaz

    -“But that’s not the point, is it? The point is that you were fully aware that the Tiwaz symbol was used prominently by the Hitler Youth when you chose to adopt that name. You didn’t choose the name by accident, nor out of admiration for some comic book character.”

    Are you sure? Where is your evidence? Hmm?
    DO you have any evidence to support your claim?

    Answer is, no you do not. This whole “wriggling in hook” bullshit is yet another proof of yours and Enriques racist attitude where Finns are guilty unless proven innocent. And in those cases Finns are guilty too.

    -“Did I say that?”

    Yes, you did imply that. “Stop saying Finns are a tribe”. If it is fact, as you admit, then there is no reason to stop saying so.

    -“I said stop calling Finns a tribe. People who do usually flirt with racism.”
    Yet, you cannot prove that Finns are not a tribe. In fact, we ARE a tribe. It is through this identification with our cultural and etnical roots that our identities are formed. To deny it is to deny ourselves.

    Where is your proof of racism?

    -“Since we are a tribe and defenseless, we have to fight against evil foreigners. Get off of it, Tiwaz”

    Since when has tribe meant defenceless? It is just the opposite! Being part of tribe means you have identity. And through cohesion of tribe we have strength to stand up and preserve our identity!

    It is something you hate and try to destroy.

    -“Answer the question.”

    Have I ever denied it?
    Answer this question. “Do you admit that you have racist attitude towards Finns?”

    -“Have you read your history closely? You should. It could clear up a lot of things.”

    Out of two of us, it is YOU who should read history. You are the one talking bullshit about Finns not being a tribe (despite being ethnically and culturally unique group). It is YOU who make claims that Finland is “multicultural” when every non-Finnish group forms so small group and has so integrated into Finnish society to level that they are impossible to tell apart from rest of population.

  51. JusticeDemon

    lol@Tiwaz

    The answers to simple questions are getting longer and longer…

    We are supposed to believe that Tiwaz innocently chose the name of a symbol used prominently by the Hitler Youth. She was unaware of this. lol 🙂

    Tiwaz still can’t bring herself to give a straight answer to Ricky’s question about the Holocaust. lol 🙂

    roflmao@Tiwaz

    Clearly we already have our answers.

  52. Tiwaz

    I have not received answers to my questions.

    What proof you have that I have chosen my moniker based on it’s poorly known connection to Hitler youth?

    Not to mention another insulting question regarding holocaust.

    If I had ever actually denied this, it might have some grounds. But I have not.

    For idiot Ricky who clearly has no brain in his little head…

    No, I do not deny holocaust. Never have, never will.
    Do you deny your own racist attitude Ricky?

    And you Demon, at the time when I chose my moniker I had no idea it had any connection to any Hitler Youth.

    So, Demon, how about you answer to questions given to you?

    You two are just two disgusting racists. And this proves it beyond any doubt. Neither of you had ANY evidence of my chosen moniker being chosen for it’s connection to HY, but that is immediately the assumption you two jumped. Without any proof.
    Without any other justification either, as only excuse you two racists have to try to connect me to any form of nazism is your own sickening attidue that everyone who opposes multiculturalism is nazi.

  53. Tiwaz

    So yes, we have our answer.

    Ricky and Demon are racists. They are just not the type of racists who scream that brown people are animals, they are anti-Finnish racists.

    • Enrique

      –Ricky and Demon are racists. They are just not the type of racists who scream that brown people are animals, they are anti-Finnish racists.

      This is funny that you call us something that you are. It is a bit like others who “rob” the identity and suffering of others by transforming the word and thereby undermining it of importance. A good example was a talk on multiculturalism I heard where it was supposed to mean Finnish students from different towns.

  54. JusticeDemon

    lol

    There you go, Tiwaz, that wasn’t so difficult, was it? Just a simple confession of your ignorance of a point of modern history. You could have avoided all of this bluster with a simple “oh, I didn’t know that” ages ago. Curious that you didn’t, but we’ll let that pass.

    Now that you know the connection between your name and the Hitler Youth, are you going to change your name? How do you feel about that connection? Are you ashamed of it?

    It seems to me that you’ve got the Chevrolet Nova problem now.

  55. Tiwaz

    -“There you go, Tiwaz, that wasn’t so difficult, was it? Just a simple confession of your ignorance of a point of modern history. You could have avoided all of this bluster with a simple “oh, I didn’t know that” ages ago. Curious that you didn’t, but we’ll let that pass.”

    I wanted to see you admit that you are racist who will declare anyone who disagrees as Nazi when you have no proof.

    I offered you enough loose to make you show your true colors. You start by determining that someone is guilty of something, never even considering alternatives. At least if that person is Finn, if they are not then they are innocent even if proven guilty.

    You could have asked WHERE my nick came from, but instead you determined that it was because I had neonazi connections. Of which you had no proof.

    By the way, you have not responded to connection of your name to satanism, evil in general and other connections related to word demon.

    I am waiting.

    As for rest of your stupidity…

    -“Now that you know the connection between your name and the Hitler Youth, are you going to change your name? How do you feel about that connection? Are you ashamed of it?”

    Why would I? Give one good reason. Shamed? How fucking stupid you are? Are YOU shamed of things done by people you have no connection with?

    Oh yes, I forgot. Finns have to be shamed of everything possible.

    -“This is funny that you call us something that you are. It is a bit like others who “rob” the identity and suffering of others by transforming the word and thereby undermining it of importance. A good example was a talk on multiculturalism I heard where it was supposed to mean Finnish students from different towns.”

    Can you deny that your attitude towards Finns is racist? You ARE racist.

    I on other hand, actually am not. Imagine that!

    All I have stated is that immigrants cannot expect special treatment (how horribly racist!).
    They cannot expect Finns to change to fit them in Finland (more horrible racism! though considering how you Enrique consider Finns to be untermensch it is no surpirse) but adjust to situation as it is!

    You on other hand scream racism but are unable to show where it has taken place. Most of your examples can simply be explained by lack of skills!

    Which is one of the points I make: Finland plays by Finnish rules. Language and culture are essential tools/skills, lack of knowledge equals lack of employability (proven by Aamulehti by pointing out how learning language radically improves employment rates)…

    So, how am I racist by expecting immigrants to adjust to existing conditions? Neither I deny that racism exists, I just deny that it exists everywhere like you do.

    From where we get to point that you ARE racist.
    Best example for this is that temple arson case. You jumped the gun immediately screaming that this is again proof of Finnish racism. When nothing was proven. (you had another opportunity with Tampere fire, but now you had wised up a bit)

    Not to mention other blog posts made here. You are rather famous for being racist even amongst ranks of those you claim to be standing up for, immigrants!

    Many immigrants who have managed well in Finland by adjusting to society as it is find you a nuisance, giving immigrants bad reputation with your irrational anti-Finnish attitude.

    • Enrique

      –I wanted to see you admit that you are racist who will declare anyone who disagrees as Nazi when you have no proof.

      That is really a maladroit hop from one argument to another one that is not even faintly related to the one you made: we are racists. Are you know stating that the Hitler Youth weren’t racist? That Tiwaz nickname you carry burned such a hole in your credibility that you will never recover from it no matter how many times you shout “racism.” Do you now see where all this blood, race and tribe boloney got you? But don’t feel too bad. The Nazis justified killing millions with these simplistic views of people.

  56. JusticeDemon

    Ah – another long rant from Tiwaz.

    The Nazi associations of your name are quite clear. Your claim to ignorance of these associations is at best tenuous. Your refusal to change your name now that you know these associations speaks volumes. A bit like opening a guest house called Treblinka “because it sounds pretty” and then refusing to change the name after learning its full meaning.

  57. Tiwaz

    -“The Nazi associations of your name are quite clear. Your claim to ignorance of these associations is at best tenuous. Your refusal to change your name now that you know these associations speaks volumes. A bit like opening a guest house called Treblinka “because it sounds pretty” and then refusing to change the name after learning its full meaning.”

    And your evidence for this is? You claim that I must be aware of extremely vague and unknown connection my nick has. And yet, as we can see… You were no more aware of it!

    Because else you would not have waited this long to go after this ad hominem attack. I am guessing you found out about it when you were on purpose desperately trying to scour the google for something, ANYTHING, to use as attack against person because YOU CAN’T ATTACK THE ARGUMENT! It tells us world about how weak you know your position to be.

    -“That is really a maladroit hop from one argument to another one that is not even faintly related to the one you made: we are racists.”

    You are. Do you think that minority cannot be racist towards majority? Look at your blog posts, specially older ones. Temple arson? You attacked it immediately, without ANY evidence, as evidence of Finnish “racism”.

    You repeatedly attach terms like “racist” and “xenophobe” to Finns as people. When you have moment of unusual honesty, copy & paste your texts to text editor and run through replacing every “Finn” with “black”. Then read it through and ask yourself, would you consider this racist?

    -“Are you know stating that the Hitler Youth weren’t racist?”

    Could you quote the part where I have stated this?

    -“That Tiwaz nickname you carry burned such a hole in your credibility that you will never recover from it no matter how many times you shout “racism.””

    At least I have credibility, unlike you. Considering that I tend to stand up for facts. Unlike you…

  58. JusticeDemon

    And now an even longer rant from Tiwaz.

    It’s very simple. Irrespective of your alleged earlier ignorance, You are NOW aware of the Nazi connotations of your name. You are NOW refusing to change that name. Simple as…

    Where is the ad hominem? You have chosen to identify yourself with the Hitler Jugend by adopting its symbol as your moniker. It can hardly be ad hominem to point this out, unless you are personally ashamed of this identification. After all, the swastika is merely an ancient Oriental symbol, so you should be free to call yourself this as well. Or perhaps Zyklon B is merely the former trade name of a pesticide and Treblinka is a pretty name for a Gästehaus.

    • Enrique

      The fact that Tiwaz uses these funny pseudonyms speaks a lot for him. He now knows what we all know.

  59. Tiwaz

    -“It’s very simple. Irrespective of your alleged earlier ignorance, You are NOW aware of the Nazi connotations of your name. You are NOW refusing to change that name. Simple as…”

    Your name has connotations to demons, considered to be evil come flesh. It is as incriminating towards you as any poorly stretched out connotations with my nick.

    Again, you are failing to grasp that Tiwaz represents Tyr as well. Far stronger and OLDER connotation. Of which I am proud.

    -“You have chosen to identify yourself with the Hitler Jugend by adopting its symbol as your moniker.”
    Here is the insult. You are trying to accuse me having chosen to identify with HJ. I choose to identify with old Norse gods (yes, not Finnish but call me exotic. Väinämöinen is just too long and contains letters not found in most keyboards).

    I refuse to relinquish this nick just because you just have managed to find out some extremely faint association with nazis and try to constantly bring it out when it has no relevance to issue at hand. In short, you are constantly accusing me of being a nazi without any evidence.

    Maybe all VW owners are nazis too? In fact, VW is DIRECT product of nazi idealism… Far closer connotation than my moniker.

    Meanwhile, Tiwaz has at best very weak and distant association. As proven by fact that you had no idea of any such connection until you went out of your way trying to desperately find something you could attack me with.

    • Enrique

      –Your name has connotations to demons, considered to be evil come flesh.

      Look out JusticeDemon, Tiwaz may call you a “racist.”

  60. JusticeDemon

    And yet ANOTHER long rant from Tiwaz.

    The Nazi connotations of your name are clear for all to see. You are wriggling desperately because these shameful references have now been exposed. The idea that you just happened to choose this moniker out of some admiration for Norse symbolism would be more credible if you didn’t also just happen to peddle an extreme authoritarian, ultra-nationalist and xenophobic line on this blog and elsewhere.

    Indeed why NOT choose a Finnish reference? Are you a closet Svecoman? There are plenty of Kalevala names that only use letters from the original ASCII character set. But of course, these would not be acceptable to your stormfront buddies.

  61. Tiwaz

    -“The Nazi connotations of your name are clear for all to see.”
    And yet you have not made a peep on this issue until now, several monts after having started to write into this blog.

    -“You are wriggling desperately because these shameful references have now been exposed. ”
    When you have spent most likely great deal of time trying to dig out ANY shit you could try to fling my way. Because we both know you have had no clue of ANY connotations regarding my chosen moniker. Not until you chose to try to google my nick to try to find something insulting to toss my way.

    -“The idea that you just happened to choose this moniker out of some admiration for Norse symbolism would be more credible if you didn’t also just happen to peddle an extreme authoritarian, ultra-nationalist and xenophobic line on this blog and elsewhere.”

    Proof of this? I have stated my position here repeatedly, one which can hardly be considered extreme or xenophobic. It can easily be put into few words, used even by leftist politicians in Finland:

    “When in Rome, do as Romans do”

    Indeed, you and Enrique are much more racist than I am.

    -“Indeed why NOT choose a Finnish reference? ”

    Exoticism. Why you chose your nick?

    • Enrique

      –Indeed, you and Enrique are much more racist than I am.

      Good, Tiwaz, I am happy that you admit it. Now go get some help.

  62. JusticeDemon

    lol@Tiwaz

    Not answering the point. Wriggling desperately because your fascist connections have been exposed.

    You have chosen to name yourself after a fascist symbol. Then you claimed not to be aware of this, even though you have consistently advocated fascist views.

    Tell us the name of the arrow symbol on this flag and tell us about the people who fly this flag in the streets of Helsinki.

    Tell us how much of this agenda you disagree with.

    I’m with Indiana.

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