Somali victim of Oulu, Finland: The tragedy that brings us closer to the problem

by , under All categories, Enrique

By Enrique Tessieri

The reaction and threads concerning the tragic death of a Somali national in Oulu, Finland, Tuesday after three white Finnish suspects barged into his home reveals the strong divide between “us” and “them.”We still have a long ways to go as a society to deal with social ills like discrimination. Paradoxically, tragedies like what happened in Oulu bring us ever-closer to the issue. 

While we should give the Finnish police the benefit of doubt and trust their professionalism, there are many cases that show the opposite and undermine the credibility of law enforcement officials. Some that come to mind immediately are the decade-long coverup by the German police of hate crimes by neo-Nazi groups, and the infamous L.A. riots, when three policemen were acquitted in 1992 after being videotaped beating a black motorist.

The L.A. riots caused the death of 53 people and as many as 2,000 were injured. The cost of the riots was between $800 million and $1 billion.

While the work of the police should reveal fairness and abiding duty to the cause of justice, factors like politics and prejudice do unfortunately get in the way.

If there are police credibility issues among Finland’s immigrant community, the police should find ways to increase trust.

While we believe in the professionalism of our law officers, we at Migrant Tales are concerned about the ever-worsening atmosphere for immigrants in Finland.  What happened in Oulu Monday night does not assure us that matters are getting better.

We do not have to venture far from Migrant Tales to grasp what is wrong with Finland today when it comes to the attitudes of some Finns. Here is one thread by Allan that is especially worrying: “Now if it so happens to be some gluesniffers on bad acid after drinking kärpässienikilju, where exactly are you blaming *them* ? No, you are blaming all Finns for having that as their social norm.”

Another blogger, Depressed N Worried Immigrant, writes: “I went to read iltalehti chatting room and i was shocked literally, there is no one single person condemning the death of this young man theye’re giving all kind of excuses…”

The police is one important source in resolving the tragedy that took place in Oulu Monday night.

It is the second incident so far in Oulu in a month where a person has fled perceived danger by jumping off the balcony. You can read the story (in Finnish) here.

 

Let’s wait for their verdict.

  1. Seppo

    I hope this case will be taken extremely seriously be the Oulu police and, as seems very probable, when a racist motive is found, it will be discussed openly also by the mainstream media.

    However, it is still unclear wheter the poor guy “leaped” to his death on purpose. From Iltalehti: “komisario kuitenkin kertoo, että uhri yritti mitä todennäköisemmin paeta oven takana ollutta kolmikkoa, jolloin hän putosi”. They use the word “fell”. Maybe this is just a useless detail as it seems anyway obvious that the incident was caused by the two boys and a girl trying to get in to the apartment.

  2. Seppo

    Update: “Poliisin mukaan asunnon haltija säikähti tunkeutujia ja yritti paeta 6. kerroksen tuuletusikkunan kautta läheiselle parvekkeelle. Hän epäonnistui yrityksessään ja putosi kesken matkan.” So did not jump on purpose but fell when trying to escape. If it makes any difference.

  3. Allan

    http://www.iltasanomat.fi/kotimaa/ikkunasta-putoamisen-tausta-mies-saikahti-pahasti/art-1288446083977.html?ref=hs-tf-promo1

    There is your “racist crime” again.

    The somali Man, a finnish Woman and her Brother live in neighbouring flats.
    Two 6th floor neighbours get friendly.
    Man is with woman in Man’s flat. Woman is drunk.
    Man and woman have argument.
    Women goes to her Big Brother. Big Brother is drunk.
    Big Brother decides to go have a word with the Man.
    Big Brother takes a metal pipe and breaks in the door.
    Man decides to try get onto the adjacent neighbours balcony.
    Man fails.

    Brother and Sister are “known to police”.

    Racism? Discrimination? So how about an apology, Enrique?

  4. Allan

    The only thing “wrong” about Finland is Enrique stirring racial hysteria when there is no reason for it. If there would have been a riot, you would have been responsible for it, nobody else.

    Fact of life is, if you associate with “known by police” people in a ghetto house you will find yourself in trouble sooner or later. Fact is the same incident would have happened if the bloke had been somali or not.

    So what are you again ranting about LA Enrique, there is your diversity and multiculturalism in one beautiful packet. You got your multiracial diversity relationship, alcohol and drug culture, multicultural reach for the concept on the honor of women… you even have the Finnish neighbour being friends with the immigrant?

  5. Asian (Realy I am Chinese so I know my own reality)

    Allan
    Jos et tytkää siitä leimaantumisesta niin tervetuloa värillisten ja maahanmuuttajien puolelle.
    Ihan jatkuvasti valkoiset olettavat yhden värillisen jollakin ihmeellisellä tavalla edustavansa kaikkia.

  6. Mark

    Allan

    The only thing “wrong” about Finland is Enrique stirring racial hysteria

    …says the man that thinks the weekly abuse of a 14-year old girl is no big deal.

    Fact of life is, if you associate with “known by police” people in a ghetto house you will find yourself in trouble sooner or later.

    And what makes it a ‘ghetto’ house, Allan? Because a Somali lives there?

    This guy didn’t find himself ‘in trouble’, Allan, you idiot, he found himself dead, trying to escape a man with an iron bar (assuming that this time the facts of the case are correct). But, hey, somehow he deserved it, eh?! Allan, you are such an unbelievable tool!

    Fact is the same incident would have happened if the bloke had been somali or not.

    And that’s a fact we almost certainly do NOT know for sure at this point. Not a fact at all, Allan. More of your see-no-racism, hear-no-racism fiction, more like.

  7. Yossie

    “reveals the strong divide between “us” and “them.””

    Sure it does and you are not helping Enrique. In your first update you clamed it to be a hate crime while we knew nothing about the motives. For you it seemed to be “us” immigrants gets attacked by “them” Finns, and its a hate crime case closed!

    Now you go on making suggestions about finnish police unprofessionality based on.. what has happend in US or Germany.. really? Are trying to make it a racist crime or a police unprofessionality if they didnt find racism in it? Those seems to be your choices.

  8. Allan

    Mark “And what makes it a ‘ghetto’ house, Allan? Because a Somali lives there?”

    “Common knowlege” makes its such. Look at the 112 call statistics. Its one of the council rentals in “douppila” where all “social rent” end up. Which means exactly druggies on bad acid drinking that karpassienikilju.

    You never lived in a house like that did you? I had people coming in through the door a number of times, that was why I had a baseball bat ready. Some previous tenant had been dealing so his acquaintances and other random baboons came scratching the door – including the cops a few times. Upstairs neighbor got bound up and torched in his kitchen.

    You are an unbelievable tool associating yourself with some dope bitch let alone inviting one into your flat. Self-preservation, lack of it causes darwin awards.

    But I know thats due to your inferioriority complex, its just “racism” Finns happen to know things about Finland better than you do?

    • Enrique

      Hi joku, do you mean the infamous hank that was kicked out of this blog a long time ago?

  9. Mark

    Allan

    None of the stories relating to this event were tagged under ‘neo-nazi groups’.

    And your mention again of the word ‘ghetto’ is really offensive. And now you add ‘alcoholism’, because they had been drinking. And criminals – of course, you don’t point out that it was the ‘white Finns’ known to Police, not the Somali. You don’t get it, do you? Ignorant fuck! You are the one stirring up racial tension, and taking absolutely no responsibility for your vicious and persistent denigration of immigrants.

    I mean, are you really afraid that the immigrants are going to start coming after the Finns because of what Enrique chooses to draw attention to on this blog? Your stupidity knows no bounds. The riot that Enrique mentioned happened because of racist-driven police brutality, not a blog asking if a Somali falling to his death after an attack was a race crime or not. You have no perspective at all.

    It has been a long-standing complaint in Finland that police do not follow-up or take seriously enough complaints by immigrants who report racist-motivated crimes. Take the 8-year-old girl pushed off a train by a man and called an ‘ape’ – no-one was arrested and police didn’t even bother get back to the parents with any information about the case, even whether it was suspended or not.

    Enrique is right to demand that the racial element in this case is properly investigated. It goes without saying. The reaction of the woman’s brother to whatever she said to him could well have been aggravated if he harboured racist sentiments himself. It is exactly these situations where racism is can be understood to operate overtly to aggravate a situation.

    Allan, your complete denial about racism or willingness to even begin to understand how it works, how victims feel about it, and what could be done to lessen it only betray your ignorance and poor character. You were once attacked by a black man (from the Horn of Africa you said, though you didn’t say why you thought that) and you’ve never got over it and now you hate all blacks and immigrants. Time for therapy, son, to preserve what little humanity you seem to have left in you. Don’t be a victim, Allan, because ultimately, you’ve let that initial crime create far more harm than was originally felt by yourself. Now you are taking it out on others.

  10. Mark

    Allan

    Mark “And what makes it a ‘ghetto’ house, Allan? Because a Somali lives there?”

    “Common knowlege” makes its such.

    No, Allan. Racism makes it such. This is blatant racism.

    You never lived in a house like that did you?

    Wrong. I grew up on a council estate. I’ve also lived in several dark places in London, including not far from the Broadwater Farm estate. My mother died of alcoholism, Allan. My brother was a drug addict for 15 years. I’ve seen the shit of society’s failings up close and personal, Allan. But unlike you, I’m not bitter about it all. And I don’t blame it on race, unlike you.

  11. Mark

    Allan

    This very one is tagged “neo-nazi groups”

    Yep, you are right. Sorry about that, I was checking the other stories. Why is that Enrique? Was it because you referenced Allan’s comments on the blog in the story? 🙂

  12. Allan

    “of course, you don’t point out that it was the ‘white Finns’ known to Police, not the Somali. ”

    I thought your were here promoting “equality” and not “racial segregation”?

    “I mean, are you really afraid that the immigrants are going to start coming after the Finns because of what Enrique chooses to draw attention to on this blog? ”

    Apparently some stupid individuals actually believe this hogwash to be true.

    “Take the 8-year-old girl pushed off a train by a man and called an ‘ape’ – no-one was arrested and police didn’t even bother get back to the parents with any information about the case, even whether it was suspended or not. ”

    Oh, the “case” of a kid ramming into a train not waiting for people to come out, with no witnesses, no cameras and a daddy who has made several unsubstantiated complaints of “racism” before. Yeah, invent me another worldshaking proof of anything else than you being a whining attentionwhore.

    “Enrique is right to demand that the racial element in this case is properly investigated.”

    Remember that boy who called “wolf” too many times?

    “racism or willingness to even begin to understand how it works, how victims feel about it”

    Anything a white man does is “racism”, even the frost today is “racism” or at least “xenophobia”. Honestly, i hope you get racism every day, from the windows, from the doors and a racism from under the kitchen sink.

  13. Allan

    “Racism makes it such. This is blatant racism.”

    I define “ghetto” like Finns do in Finland and thats a concrete council estate housing “socials”. Where is the “racism”? They were ghettoes before immigration and will be ghettoes despite immigration.

  14. justicedemon

    Allan

    So when your ideological forebears established the Warsaw Ghetto, they were building a concrete council estate housing “socials” and this had nothing to do with racism?

    Mark has got your number.

  15. Allan

    What is wrong with my definition?

    “A ghetto is a section of a city predominantly occupied by a group who live there, especially because of social, economic, or legal issues.”

  16. Mark

    Allan

    Actually there was a witness, a Finnish woman, who helped the kid to her feet.

    “of course, you don’t point out that it was the ‘white Finns’ known to Police, not the Somali. ”

    I thought your were here promoting “equality” and not “racial segregation”?

    And why did I point out those known to the police were white Finns? Because you failed to mention it when suggested tagging the story with ‘criminal’, next to ‘multicultural’. So you call the blacks criminals and drug addicts, I point out that this information refers to the whites in this case, and I’m the one drawing attention to race?

    Mark said: Take the 8-year-old girl pushed off a train by a man and called an ‘ape”

    Allan said: Oh, the “case” of a kid ramming into a train not waiting for people to come out, with no witnesses, no cameras and a daddy who has made several unsubstantiated complaints of “racism” before. Yeah, invent me another worldshaking proof of anything else than you being a whining attention whore.

    Actually there was a witness, a Finnish woman, who helped the kid to her feet.

    Something tells me you actually enjoy the mental gymnastics in turning genuine cases of assault and abuse into some kind of pantomime! You are seriously sick, Allan. No question. You have the psychological profile of an abuser.

    “Anything a white man does is “racism”, even the frost today is “racism” or at least “xenophobia”.

    Tosh, Allan. Time and again I have refuted that pathetic accusation. Racism is done by blacks, whites, majorities, minorities, young and old. None of it is right. If someone pushes a kid off the train and calls them an ape, that’s racism Allan. Plain and simple.

  17. Allan

    @ Mark

    “of course, you don’t point out that it was the ‘white Finns’ known to Police, not the Somali. ”

    And where did you get the “white Finns” from? We need to wait for the court case or Alibi to get some pictures, but I’ll bet you a pint for “national costume” being involved. The “white Finns” seldom have such issues regarding “family honor” as the “national costume Finns”, women in their circles are untouchable. Unless it was white trash dopeheads. Still, at the end of the day, nothing to blame “the Finns” about, nor the police… except yes, all the people voted for the politicians who made the legislation and courts a joke.

    I am not expecting this case to bring the trio anything more than a slap on the wrist, human rights of the criminals are stronger than those of their victims.

  18. Allan

    “Actually there was a witness, a Finnish woman, who helped the kid to her feet.”

    Who vanished into thin air after the fact. Never contacted the police, a fairy godmother?

  19. Allan

    “If someone pushes a kid off the train and calls them an ape, that’s racism Allan. ”
    I’ve done it to my nephew, where is the racism?

  20. justicedemon

    Allan

    The “white Finns” seldom have such issues regarding “family honor”

    Bullshit. You are deliberately excluding all of those cases involving attempts by Finnish men to mend their broken families using a shotgun, service revolver or knife. Some examples:

    November 2011, Tyrnävä
    October 2011, Varkaus
    April 2011, Ikaalinen
    February 2010, Lappeenranta (fortunately nobody was killed)
    December 2008, Lohja (that was a retired police officer)
    November 2008, Hattula
    October 2008, Helsinki
    October 2008, Oulu
    June 2008, Ylitornio
    March 2008, Pori

  21. Mark

    Allan

    “Actually there was a witness, a Finnish woman, who helped the kid to her feet.”

    Who vanished into thin air after the fact. Never contacted the police, a fairy godmother?

    Yep, and because this woman went about her business and probably never found out that police were looking to speak to her, you can put forward the pathetic idea that the 8-year-old made it up.

    “If someone pushes a kid off the train and calls them an ape, that’s racism Allan. ”
    I’ve done it to my nephew, where is the racism?

    Bollocks, why don’t I believe you. Why would you call your nephew an ape? And why would you throw him off a train? Did you let him back on again?

    Even if you did, it is not the same thing as a stranger pushing an immigrant 8-year-old off a train and calling her an ape.

    What kind of idiot would not be able to recognise that as racism?

  22. justicedemon

    Allan

    The clue is there in your own expression forced into living. That’s an important part of the core meaning of “ghetto”. Otherwise you would also describe Kaivopuisto as a ghetto. The element of choice (or lack of it) is crucial.

    Perhaps like rasismi, this is a foreign neologism that the epähiket have not learned to use correctly.

  23. Allan

    “Why would you call your nephew an ape? ”

    Because he monkeys around? You really don’t have a clue of Finnish language either. Calling a kid an ape or a monkey isn’t anything unexeptional – you hear parents disciplining the kids “you small apes behave”. Nothing exceptional in that is there? You gone to see the relatives in the zoo? Well, sometimes the relatives not in the zoo act the same way, after all its only a 2% difference they say.

  24. Mark

    Allan

    Mark said: “Actually there was a witness, a Finnish woman, who helped the kid to her feet.”

    Who vanished into thin air after the fact. Never contacted the police, a fairy godmother?

    Yep, and because this woman went about her business and probably never found out that police were looking to speak to her, you can put forward the pathetic idea that the 8-year-old made it up.

    Marks said: “If someone pushes a kid off the train and calls them an ape, that’s racism Allan. ”
    I’ve done it to my nephew, where is the racism?

    Bollocks, why don’t I believe you. Why would you call your nephew an ape? And why would you throw him off a train? Did you let him back on again?

    Even if you did, it is not the same thing as a stranger pushing an immigrant 8-year-old off a train and calling her an ape.

    What kind of idiot would not be able to recognise that as racism?

  25. Mark

    Nothing exceptional in that is there?

    Allan, context is everything. When was the last time you pushed a stranger off the train and called them an ape?

    hmmmm….maybe you don’t want to answer that.

  26. justicedemon

    Allan

    OK Allan. Now tell us that parents also throw their children off a train and that there’s nothing exceptional about that, either.

    We are very interested in hearing you confess to this assault on your nephew.

  27. Allan

    JD – of course nobody “forces” you to live where you can afford – or where the social office has flats they have available for people whose track record isn’t so great. I mean you can always choose freely to go live in a tent…

  28. Allan

    Mark & JD – you really repeat this illusionary story of “pushing” someone off the train. Yes, there was a ctually a catapult seat involved. How about you two idiots go on the metro, one comes ouit and one goes in, and bump into each other. The one who has less momentum and lighter mass will end up spreadeagle on the floor. Then the one standing will say “look where you’re going” and the one on the floor will go “its racism”.

    Bumping into people in public traffic happens daily, rude kids not knowing how to queue up also happen daily. Add the two up and what do you have. A little ape.

  29. Yossie

    Mark

    “Yep, and because this woman went about her business and probably never found out that police were looking to speak to her, you can put forward the pathetic idea that the 8-year-old made it up.”

    This one got a lot publicity back then. The news went on quite a long time looking for the witnesses. Apparently the father has some history of making up stuff so wouldnt rule it out totally. But in the end, Sure the police is at fault for not letting people know how the investigation ended as now we cant be sure either way what really happent.

  30. Allan

    JD – “You are deliberately excluding all of those cases involving attempts by Finnish men to mend their broken families using a shotgun, service revolver or knife. ”

    And how many of these cases exactly included defending the honor of ones sister?

  31. Allan

    “Yep, and because this woman went about her business and probably never found out that police were looking to speak to her,”

    She was then illiterate, blind and deaf as well? It was the only news item that week before it dried up, without much adieu.

    ” you can put forward the pathetic idea that the 8-year-old made it up.”

    8-year olds are renowned for not making up all kind of stories, like for explaining why they got ripped clothes, why tehy are late or why the homework isnt done… no…

    The only pathetic one here is you who believes it because otherwise your imaginary bubble of “racist Finland” would burst. The closet nazi is rattling, let it out!

  32. justicedemon

    Allan

    They were all about social pressure, Allan. Finns are far from immune to this. Indeed most of your bullshit here is all about how immigrants (or anyone else who is not like you) should conform to a degree of social pressure that goes above and beyond merely respecting the constraints of the Penal Code.

    Just to make sure that we are on the same page, how do you feel about corporal punishment of children, Allan?

  33. justicedemon

    Allan

    You have no evidence that the 8 year-old was lying. Even your alleged motives for this are speculation (where are these ripped clothes, lateness or homework – other than fictions of your mind created to avoid drawing an unpleasant conclusion?).

    The perpetrator was also a witness to this incident, but did not step forward either (perhaps due to similar illiteracy and physical handicap).

    However, we are still curious about the incident with your nephew. You have explained why you called him an ape (because Finns regularly call their children apes, according to you), but we have yet to hear your excuse for the assault itself. Hence my query concerning your attitude towards corporal punishment of children.

  34. Mark

    Allan

    8-year olds are renowned for not making up all kind of stories, like for explaining why they got ripped clothes, why tehy are late or why the homework isnt done… no…

    Freudian slip there. And while kids can make things up, you have to ask yourself what would be the motivation for an 8-year old to make that kind of claim. I have an 9-year old boy, Allan, so I can make some judgment about what kids are likely to make up. You don’t have kids, do you? Thought not.

    For the record, Finland is not racist. But there are Finns in Finland who are racist, and some Finns abroad who are racist too. There are also immigrants in Finland who are racist.

    Just for the record. Not that you will pay any attention whatsoever.

  35. Allan

    “And while kids can make things up, you have to ask yourself what would be the motivation for an 8-year old to make that kind of claim.”

    To get out of trouble? Of course if it was your kid he’d probably say he bumped into a bald fat man, but next thing Enrique would be screaming about neo-nazis.

    “For the record, Finland is not racist. But there are Finns in Finland who are racist, and some Finns abroad who are racist too. There are also immigrants in Finland who are racist.”

    Tell that to Enrique. Espacially the first and last bits.

    • Enrique

      –After all, we have “Enrique’s witness” with a smoking chainsaw in this Oulu case.

      Nice try, Allan. Back to your old hit-under-the-belt tricks. When I place something like that I try to get confirmation. The story says that the police would not confirm such claims MADE BY people who lived there.

      I tend to agree with JD: The things you read change before they register in your brain change mysteriously.

      Moreover, I publish with my name, like you Allan, right?

  36. Mark

    Allan

    To get out of trouble?

    Kids that age don’t make that kind of stuff up Allan. If you had any, you would understand. I imagine a stranger calling my kid an ape after throwing them off a train would be confused, upset and hurt. In this situation, it’s not something they would fake. You would have to be a parent to understand that. But your not.

    And that’s why your sinister undermining of this 8-year old’s story just won’t wash Allan. We all know that you deny even the most blatant racist attacks on immigrants in Finland. The fact that you attempt to invalidate attacks on children though really removes any notion that you have a healthy social conscience.

    You need a trip (or two) to the therapist, Allan. You were abused and damaged after that mugging. No shame in that. But you’ve let it distort your entire world view, even to the point where you’ll call many children liars before you’ll face the simple truth – racism exists.

    But then, if you prove it doesn’t exist, you won’t have to face the cold fact that your mugging turned you into a racist.

  37. Klay_Immigrant

    -‘To get out of trouble? Of course if it was your kid he’d probably say he bumped into a bald fat man, but next thing Enrique would be screaming about neo-nazis.’

    Allan the best policy advocated by Enrique is that policemen should be banned from being bald or shaving their heads as immigrants find that threatening and assume they are ‘skin heads’ and therefore racist. So burqa fine but bald policeman banned. Stereotyping police based on their hair fine, stereotyping immigrants racist. That’s the logic of multiculturalists.

  38. Allan

    Nobody was “thrown off the train” you idiot. The girl was barging in when people were coming out, the bigger mass won. Try logical thought for a change, or public transport when kids get out of school.

    How about you face the truth, racism exists only inside your head as a defence mechanism to your inferiority complex.

  39. Mark

    Klay_immigrant

    Stereotyping police based on their hair fine, stereotyping immigrants racist. That’s the logic of multiculturalists.

    You made that up (actually Allan did), and then you attributed it multiculturalists.

    Okay Klay, racism 101, lesson 1 – All groups have stereotypes. Consistently using negative stereotypoes to denigrate people based on their ethnicity, race or religion simply to avoid having to share the same street or town with them is racist. Got it?

    How does it feel to lie to yourself continuously about what other people actually think or believe? Does it make you think you’ve really got this ‘world’ thing figured out? Peace of cake, in it? 🙂

  40. Mark

    Allan

    Nobody was “thrown off the train” you idiot. The girl was barging in when people were coming out, the bigger mass won. Try logical thought for a change, or public transport when kids get out of school.

    How about you face the truth, racism exists only inside your head as a defence mechanism to your inferiority complex.

    Allan, keep blaming the victim. You were a victim too, Allan. Was it your fault you got mugged?

  41. Allan

    Enrique, back to defending your imagination-based stories are you? Burst bubble made you cry? The police will not confirm stories made up by people living there. But you believe anything because it fits your agenda. Too bad it all failed. Just like that horrible neonazi racist arson attack on that pizzakebab in Tampere.

    How about writing about something that you can handle, like Sara Chafak winning the Miss Suomi. But an emancipated muslim woman posing in a bikini who is going to the army isn’t your cup of diversity is it?

  42. Mark

    Allan

    – “But an emancipated muslim woman posing in a bikini who is going to the army isn’t your cup of diversity is it?”

    Suits me fine.

    The difference between breaking in with a chainsaw and an iron bar are not so different. Breaking in with force pretty much sums it up. I imagine the lad was terrified. Can you imagine that Allan. You must have been terrified when you were mugged? Must have been scary. Did he have knife? Or a gun? Did you hurt you? Did you blame yourself afterwards, for being in the wrong place at the wrong time? It’s understandable. Many victims do that. Some victims even go on to blame other victims, saying that they should know better too. It’s called transference, in psychology.

    You can get your head sorted Allan. But the first step is to realise that the mugging did a lot more than damage your ego or your wallet. It put you on the defensive and cut your off from feeling compassion for victims in general. That’s a slippery road Allan, towards becoming some kind of abuser yourself. Do you fear that? Do you fantasise about mugging blacks? It wouldn’t be unusual. It’s one way of trying to ‘gain control’ again.

    Another way would be to go on a forum discussing racist attacks and to try to ‘mug’ the posters of any sense of reality, or dignity, or self-esteem. You could do that. It’s safe. No-one will prosecute you. You can act out as much as you want – get it off your chest. You can even be a bit rude, try a bit of ‘kick em when their down’. Yep, well down the path to becoming an abuser Allan. But I’m sure you’re paying some kind of price. Personal relationships suffering a little? Is that why you left Finland? Is that why you work ‘offshore’? Gives a bit of ‘distance’, so that you don’t have to be ‘confined’ in a relationship?

    You can talk to us Allan. You would get some genuine sympathy and understanding. But you have stop this abusing, like throwing your nephew off trains, and calling kids liars when they tell you they were abused. It’s not healthy.

  43. Klay_Immigrant

    Mark, Enrique did write that not a figment of mine or Allan’s imagination.

    5th paragraph

    http://nemoo.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/yle-yha-useampi-rasistinen-rikos-tutkitaan/

    Accurate stereotypes come about from statistics. Will they apply to every single person in that group? Ofcourse not but when talking about a group you have to generalise. Crime, reliance on welfare, and education attainment have shown that some groups struggle a lot more than others and it’s not through discrimination. Deal with it, not every group is the same otherwise all countries will be the similar and have the same development.

  44. Allan

    “Was it your fault you got mugged?”

    Partly yes, as I was blottoed and felt far too clever finding a taxi rank. And it wasn’t because my limey mate had got a job and was buying the drinks as I ought to have known that all free booze does not have to be drunk…. or had I gotten my degree then yet… in any case.

    Partly no, as without these asylum shoppers in the country, I’d been able to be blottoed in my own town in my own country which I think was my constitutional right. Well, the latter logic is just multicultuiral – I picked up from the police in UAE, as thats their logic of fining the franks involved in traffic accidents. Pretty clever isn’t it?

    Statistically it wasn’t that anomalous that spring.

  45. justicedemon

    Allan

    You have evidence that the 8 year-old was not lying? Or that the dad didn’t “color” the story?

    Basic principle: he who asserts must prove. Didn’t you epähiket learn even this much?

  46. Allan

    “The difference between breaking in with a chainsaw and an iron bar are not so different. Breaking in with force pretty much sums it up.”

    The door was kicked in… not like in the movies, the bloke kicked a hole into the door and opened it as the Finnish doors open “out” as by fire standards. A chainsaw makes a shitload of noise so mistaking the two is quite impossible. An iron bar… weightlifting instead of a curtain rod… yeah, that can hurt…. the question is, if theres someone kicking a hole in my door my first instinct – besides calling the 112 – is to whack him on the fingers with something. Or maybe put the kettle on and offer some hot tea – or something like that – instead of squeezing myself out the window trying to do a spiderman onto the next balcony.

    & get real, you are such drama queens. I think I was maybe 10 and my nephew 5 and I pushed him off the last step of the wooden carriage and nan gave us both an earful for horsing around. Big deal, mate. I only remember it as it was an old carriage and smelled of creosote.

  47. justicedemon

    Allan

    Were your muggers ever identified, Allan? If not, then how do you know that they were asylum shoppers? If they were, then how did you become privy to the details of their immigration transactions?

    Perhaps you should tell your story in an ATL article here. Write it in Finnish if you like, but do try to distinguish fact from embellishment. If you think your mugging was racially motivated, then perhaps you can explain why. Then we can all speculate on your motives for lying and tell you things about yourself that you never knew.

  48. justicedemon

    Allan

    where was the “proof” in this case?

    Try to keep up.

    You have the consistent testimony of an 8 year-old victim. You asserted that she was lying, and then you dreamed up lots of reasons why she might be lying, none of which were based on specific facts about the incident or about the victim. You have not proved that she was lying, and the burden of proof is on you, because this is your assertion.

    And despite the thrice demonstrated shortcomings of your Finnish reading comprehension, you clearly do know what an epähikke is.

  49. Allan

    “You have the consistent testimony of an 8 year-old victim.”

    And apart from her story exactly what else? Try occams razor, sunshine.

  50. justicedemon

    Allan

    There’s something else that you should look up before posting. I won’t even bother to ask you what you meant by that silly comment, moonbeam.

    Does your employer know that you spend so much time here during the working day?

  51. Mark

    Klay

    Yep, it was Enrique’s words, but as usual, you took him out of context. He said more diversity among the ranks of the police would build more trust, which is perfectly valid. I have to say, when I first saw finnish police, I did think they looked a bit thuggish. But yes, the idea of growing their hair is a bit superficial and does play into stereotyping. Not that you should care, as you lot are quite in favour of doing it, so I don’t know what you are do bothered about.

  52. Mark

    Klay

    You claim that stereotypes arise from statistics. That’s a strange notion. Do you therefore think that stereotyping only happens in those societies that keep statistics? Also, how do you explain the consistent finding that stereos are notoriously inaccurate?

  53. Allan

    JD – some work days, some nights, some shifts… you’ll get a rest from me for 3 weeks soon.

    Mark – I think stereotypes can be learned or acquired. Learned stereotypes are formed by impressions from peers/school/elders/movies/other media. Then you can also form stereotypes from your own experiences – they can be totally opposite from what you have been told, or then be what you expect. Media, even statistics can replace this “experience” bit. Thats why propaganda is such a powerful tool.

    Funny, the “stereotype” of a Finnish police was long this kind of jovial countryside sheriff who would talk the local hooligans out of their antics and then young simple muscle-for-brains types. Also a very strong media effect there with calling police “Reinikainen” after the tv-show. However the beat/village cops disappeared and police became more of “mobile office workers”, so you get a more distant relationship with the “muscle for brains” then showing up. What comes to the “jarhead” look I think its common especially with martial arts guys, and if you look around seems to be quite “fashionable” all over?

    What comes to “diversity bringing more trust” that means again you are claiming ethnicity is an attribute that should be factored in? Fact is there isn’t that many visibly “diverse” people in the qualifying pool to start with to then go in and pass the tests, never mind the job isn’t that appealing as job prospects are bad – the recent graduating class went straight to the employment office queue.

  54. Mark

    Allan

    What comes to “diversity bringing more trust” that means again you are claiming ethnicity is an attribute that should be factored in? Fact is there isn’t that many visibly “diverse” people in the qualifying pool to start with to then go in and pass the tests, never mind the job isn’t that appealing as job prospects are bad – the recent graduating class went straight to the employment office queue.

    All of which may or may not be true (i like the implication that they might not be able to pass the tests!!) be true but still doesn’t invalidate Enrique’s main point, which was diversity within the police in Finland would help in dealing with minorities and building good relations. Many of the riots in England were due to institutionalised racism and a mix of real and perceived biases among the police towards African immigrants, resulting in higher frequencies of stop and search as only one example.

    Mark – I think stereotypes can be learned or acquired. Learned stereotypes are formed by impressions from peers/school/elders/movies/other media. Then you can also form stereotypes from your own experiences – they can be totally opposite from what you have been told, or then be what you expect. Media, even statistics can replace this “experience” bit. Thats why propaganda is such a powerful tool.

    Now if you can be so sensible in understanding how negative stereotypes might work in regard to prejudice against white Finnish police, why is it that when we start to talk about immigrants, you come over all fucking stupid on the topic???

    So, back to your mugging. You did blame yourself, but you also blamed society in the shape of immigration policy which let the black man in that mugged you. Well, both those reactions, while understandable up to a point, don’t stack up. It wasn’t your fault. You should be free to walk around drunk, stand around drunk at taxi ranks and generally enjoy a level of public safety in Finland. It was not your fault in any way. Some of your actions made you a more likely target, but that was a factor created by your attacker looking for an easy target. You didn’t answer the question if there was a knife or gun involved. Second, blaming immigration as being the ‘top down’ cause of the incident is equally flawed. You might as well blame the clothesmaker that made the clothes that the mugger wore when he mugged you. Without clothes, he couldn’t have mugged you. There are so many circumstances that go to putting someone in the wrong place at the wrong time. Likewise, if you targeted you because you were white and he wanted to get back at white people, then it was a racist crime. I don’t know, but it’s possible. But this kind of racism that you are perpetuating in return is not an answer. It’s not even healthy for you Allan. Seriously, people can be quite traumatised by something like this, and if you don’t get help, then it can undermine many humane qualities as you ‘numb out’ and intellectualise the whole experience, into issues of immigration and national stereotypes. Sounds like you are doing a lot of intellectualisation of what remains a an unresolved anger, a sense of needing to take control, or fostering policies of control in the world around you. I would be concerned also when you have children, because damage from that kind of trauma that is unresolved could turn you into an abusive parent – telling your kids to grow up when they are hurt, vulnerable, abused or unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. You are already showing an alarming lack of empathy towards children in these threads. I’d be worried for you. Or do you feel like you can control it and direct it only towards immigrant children? There are people I’m sure with experience who could help you, Allan. The world would become a safer place if you sought help, for you and for the rest of us.

  55. Allan

    “All of which may or may not be true (i like the implication that they might not be able to pass the tests!!) ”

    Are you a bit on the thick side? OK, so every minority kid has 10:10 vision, can run 1500 under 7:15, swim 100m under 3, lift 62.5 on straight hands… and then write a few essay pages on the EU laws and Police act… nevermind all the other prerequisites.

    Yeah, how dare I suggest your brainsurgeon-astronauts might be mere mortals.

  56. PS voter

    Although there might not have been racist motive for the criminal and the direct cause of death of the victim seems to be accident, I hope he and people like him, are put in prison for long time. Unfortunately, the sentences for violent crimes tend to be too short in Finland.

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