Populist chatter and a tale of elk flies

by , under Enrique

There is a True Finns candidate in the April 2011 elections that spreads elk flies every time he opens his mouth to bash immigrants. His multicultural name, James Hirvisaari,* gets a lot of free publicity whenever blogs like mine comment on his extremist views.

Hirvisaari has a problem: He is another True Finn that has been charged for incitement of ethnic hatred.

His campaign catchphrase is: Finnish language, Finnish spirit, Finnish nature, Finnish flag. This phrase, in my opinion, shows how low xenophobic groups in Finland have stooped. They now use our sacred icons to drive home their racist views.

Hirvisaari’s first campaign promise, I support a Finnish Finland in a European Europe, is a phrase that looks sound at first glance but after closer study it raises disturbing questions. If he is so Finnish, why is his first name, James?

His second campaign promise, I support Western and Christian values, is another kick in the groin that leaves you with a question mark: What does he mean? Yes, true, James, spreading hatred, strife and insulting other European ethnic groups are part of our Western and Christian heritage.

If you go back to the Nazi Germany era, he may have a point.

Hirvisaari states in his third campaign promise that he is for local democracy and against European federalism.  I am totally confused now: Why doesn’t he speak straight and state that he wants Finland to leave the EU?

I really “love” his fourth promise. He supports a selective immigration policy but would he, seriously, hand on heart, give a residence permit to a person person like himself from another country who shared the same extremist views?

In order to simplify things, why doesn’t Hirvisaari state in plain Finnish that he loathes a certain religious group? That his whole political ideology is based on this and nothing more.

* If you want to read some funny comments about Hirvisaari’s political ideas visit Facebook. His real names is Erkki Kalevi. 

  1. Tony Garcia

    “Hirvisaari has a problem: He is another True Finn that has been charged for incitement of ethnic hatred.”

    “True Tony, but we have the let the law sentence people not public opinion.”

    “In sum, it is better to look at sentenced cases. “

  2. Klay_Immigrant

    I know how dare Hirvisaari want Finnish things in Finland. Total disgrace, they should bring the islamic practise of stoning to death to punish him.

    • Enrique

      Yes, Klay, and why don’t you throw in “freedom of speech” while you are at it. Could you provide those official statistics that you were so eager to show us on Denmark. I suspect that you were going to prove something to us on this front.

  3. Tony Garcia

    First it’s interesting to see that this blog brings in the “incitement to hatred” charge just 1 day after saying that we should stick to convictions. But that’s how things are in a multicultural world, it all depends on who we are talking about…

    Nevertheless…

    I think Hirvisaari is a very good candidate to be voted for. Not because what he may or may not do if elected, but electing people like him is the best way to send a message to Helsinki. Next election is one opportunity in a life time. Finland has been blessed by the Lord in a such special way. We have a very lenient immigration policy but it just hasn’t been widely spotted yet, but it’ll if we don’t act now.

    Finland today is on a very special position. Most of the trouble we have are still on temporary permits and they are not many in numbers. We don’t have a problem to be solved like France or Sweden, we have a problem to be avoided.

    As this blog has brilliantly said social exclusion and marginalization is a great ill to our society. I’d go even further saying that it’s a cancer that can spread in a astonishing speed with devastating results. We just can’t afford allow this to happen.

    For those Finns reading this, I know the economy, retirement, health care, etc are very important issues, but in this election we must put all aside, we must concentrate to fix our immigration policy before too late. A health and wise immigration policy with take in consideration Finland’s best interest is an essential tool to help tackle the other problems, a bad one will only make things worse.

    We need a policy that motivates educated, law-abiding, adaptable and ready to integrate immigrants to come and close the door to problems. With a right policy and a favorable climate we not only keep problems out but many who are already in will eventually leave. They are always looking for greener pastures, we just need to show that they won’t find it in Finland.

    It’s imperative that we send a clear and loud message to Helsinki, we don’t want to be like UK or France, we don’t want another Malmo. We want to be Finland.

    • Enrique

      –But that’s how things are in a multicultural world, it all depends on who we are talking about…

      Have you read what he writes? So you are stating that it is ok to bash other groups for fun and political profit? Tony you are sometimes difficult to understand.

  4. Tony Garcia

    “Could you provide those official statistics that you were so eager to show us on Denmark.”

    Why bother? You’ll dismiss it as xenophobic, biased, racists. etc. anyway…

    • Enrique

      –Why bother? You’ll dismiss it as xenophobic, biased, racists. etc. anyway…

      Official statistics carry a lot of weight. The fact is that he probably doesn’t even have them.

  5. Tony Garcia

    “Official statistics carry a lot of weight. The fact is that he probably doesn’t even have them.”

    Perhaps, but I brought here plenty from US and you didn’t like it very much, did you?

  6. Tony Garcia

    “Tony you are sometimes difficult to understand.”

    Nop, I’m not, you were very clear…

    “but we have the let the law sentence people not public opinion.” and “In sum, it is better to look at sentenced cases. “

    when we were talking about minorities. But when the target is a Finn charges are just good enough.

    I’m not difficult to understand, I’m just very inconvenient, I know that…

  7. Ilona

    Enrique: Good point! Tony Garcia: Born Finnish; and now being a third culture kid as someone described my nationality as, I think nationalism breeds hatred in the feeble minded. It’s dangerous to elect people, who incite those views, to a position of power with the ability to persuade and manipulate minds. Globalization and Technology has broken borders, its about time that we awknoledge that we all live on this planet called Earth. With millions of species on it, us humans, should at least try to get along with the one we belong to. Just some thoughts from a person who has lived and seeen many places.

    • Enrique

      Hi Ilona, what a nice surprise seeing you here. Those are very wise words and I hope others will take heed to them. One of the most incredible things that a person encounters when he travels in many cultures is the prejudice and suspicion he encounters. However, with good will from all sides we can overcome these obstacles.

  8. Klay_Immigrant

    -‘Yes, Klay, and why don’t you throw in “freedom of speech” while you are at it. Could you provide those official statistics that you were so eager to show us on Denmark. I suspect that you were going to prove something to us on this front.’

    Enrique I’m confused. When did i ever say anything along those lines. Please find where I said that on this blog and quote it for me Enrique. You can’t because I NEVER EVER said anything about offical statistics on Denmark. You are putting words in my mouth and plain simply lying. Can’t say I’m suprised though sadly, story of your whole theory and benefits of immigration.

    • Enrique

      –Please find where I said that on this blog and quote it for me Enrique. You can’t because I NEVER EVER said anything about offical statistics on Denmark.

      In first place, lying is a pretty strong word. Isn’t it natural that when one debates he/she brings forth reliable data NOT publications that spin it to comply to their political taste. Using partial-as-possible data is the first step. Moreover, don’t spin it back by forgetting crucial adjectives such as “suspected” and “convicted.”

  9. Hannu

    “some claim”, you claimed that “according to police 50,000 rapes arent reported” and im still waiting source. You know source of official report what says exactly that.
    I think its pretty serious that you make such claims withouth presenting any evidence and in same time funny when you want all kind of evidence yourself.

    • Enrique

      Hannu, I’ll get back to you on this. You think it is serious?! Wow! What about you and those you represent? Making claims that certain foreigners are rapists and criminals… Shame on you. Hannu, it is time for you to take a good and long look in the mirror.

  10. Ilona

    Hannu, what a low blow on the name tarnishing. Even if you don’t agree with Enrique’s blog, try being decent man, a grown up. That type of childish bullying doesn’t add much weight to your opinions and comments, quite the contrary it makes you look like a total dick.

  11. Hannu

    Ilona if you have red this blog you probably noticed how enrique claimed September 29, 2010 at 7:26 am that “Did you know that in Finland some 50,000 rape cases were not reported, according to the police.” and i September 29, 2010 at 8:52 am asked a source. No source provided and yet he demands here proofs because “Isn’t it natural that when one debates he/she brings forth reliable data ”.
    Ill continue to remind him about that till he either apologises for spreading false information or provides source. He isnt now in position where he can say anything about sources.

    • Enrique

      What, Hannu, are you now working for the police? Who wrote your thread?

  12. Hannu

    Where i claimed that i work for police?

    YOU claimed that “in Finland some 50,000 rape cases were not reported, according to the police.”

    I want source.

    And stop putting words in my mouth and inventing what i “represent” or say.

    • Enrique

      Is this you, Hannu? Wow, your English has improved as fast as the speed of sound. Could you please tell me how you do it? Read my earlier thread and put down your knife. In plain English it means chill out!

    • Enrique

      Erik, thank you for these links, which state pretty clearly the sitaution and the challenges. Hannu, when you go around claiming that one single group is responsible for everything criminal in this country you fuel racism. What you are doing is just showing how “strange” and “criminal” these people are to justify your attitude. In the Finland of the future that kind of behavior will not be tolerated. How can I say that? I saw it happen in the United States. Some thought it was their “right” to insult other groups like blacks. Today, where I used to live, racism is seen as a shameful thing.

  13. Tony Garcia

    “Hannu, I think it is pretty serious that you tarnish my name with “50 000 rapes”.

    Sorry Enrique but you have done it all by yourself again. It’s not the first time you rush to bash Finns and end up in hot waters. Quick reminder… the Heinäluoma’s “take our women” comments, the Urplilainen’s “maassa maan tavalla” translation, the “racist” arson attach.

    You said here about take responsible for that you say, well…

    • Enrique

      Vain harva raiskaus tai raiskauksen yritys ilmoitetaan poliisille. Vuonna 2005 toteutetun rikosuhrikyselytutkimuksen mukaan 46 000 suomalaisnaista oli joutunut edeltävän vuoden aikana raiskauksen tai sen yrityksen kohteeksi, kun mukaan luetaan tilanteet, joissa uhri oli nukkunut tai ollut muutoin puolustuskyvytön. Näistä 15 000 naista oli pakotettu seksuaaliseen kanssakäymiseen, joista yli puolet parisuhteessa. Päivi Honkatukian ja Heini Kainulaisen mukaan: “Poliisin tietoon tulleista tapauksista ei voi tehdä päätelmiä rikosten todellisesta määrästä ja luonteesta, vaan ne kertovat enemmän rikosten uhrien halusta ja kyvystä tehdä rikosilmoitus. (…) Varsinkaan tuttujen ja läheisten tekemästä seksuaalisesta väkivallasta ei yleensä ilmoiteta viranomaisille.” On myös huomattava, että poliisin tietoon tulleiden tapausten määrän viimeaikainen kasvu saattaa hyvin pitkälle selittyä paitsi vuonna 1999 voimaan astuneella uudistetulla seksuaalirikoslailla myös madaltuneella ilmoituskynnyksellä.[5] Oikeuspoliittinen tutkimuslaitos. Rikollisuustilanne 2006: luku 4 “Seksuaalirikokset”

      Nykyisin poliisille ilmoitetaan hieman yli 500 raiskausta vuodessa. Vuodesta 1993 raiskaajaksi epäillyt on tilastoitu etnisen taustan perusteella. Syntyperäisten suomalaisten osuus raiskausepäillyistä on ollut noin 80 prosenttia, loput ovat ulkomaalaistaustaisia (ulkomaan kansalaisia tai Suomen kansalaisia, joiden syntymämaa on jokin muu kuin Suomi).

  14. Tony Garcia

    I love when the EU use minorities “perception” to “prove” racism exists. Of course it exists, but not even near the amount the left claims it does. Racism is nothing but a political tool for the left and excuse for those who can’t succeed due their own inability.

    • Enrique

      –Racism is nothing but a political tool for the left and excuse for those who can’t succeed due their own inability.

      Racism is a tool to control other minorities by a majority/minority without sharing political/economic wealth.

  15. Tony Garcia

    Erik,

    I have been carefully reading what you have said, now please let me ask you a question. I take that you have decided to adapt to the Dutch system after moved to Holland rather than insist in doing everything the way you used to do in Greece, is that a fair statement? if so, please tell us, was it worth it? Do you see this path has helped you succeeded in there?

    • Enrique

      –I take that you have decided to adapt to the Dutch system after moved to Holland rather than insist in doing everything the way you used to do in Greece, is that a fair statement?

      Sorry Tony, but I think this type of question shows two things: (1) you don’t have an idea of our laws nor how our society is made up of; (2) you use this incorrect statement to bash a group you don’t like. In first place, if I move to a country it is my right to practice my religion and culture. This is not an opinion but is part of the laws.

      Your view of assimilation has never happened successful only after many, many generations. It is a very long route that ensures that one group does not have to change and can keep all political and economic power without ever taking into consideration other groups.

      That is why maassa maan tavalla expresses for me total laziness from one group of people. Just come to my culture and adapt. I do not have to do anything.

      Am I wrong in what you are trying to say?

      Tony one more thing: Don’t underestimate immigrants. If you are an immigrant you should know that the first thing most of them want to do is adapt.

  16. Tony Garcia

    You are right, in a free society we have the right the do whatever we want, however we, no others, are responsible for the consequences of your choices.

    Sorry but my question is still valid, he decided for assimilation and I just want to know if this decision has, in any way, help him and if he regrets this path. I just want to hear his opinion about it.

    What bothers you is that i have already asked this question few times here to other immigrants who have chosen the same path and you know what they have answered.

    “Don’t underestimate immigrants.”

    Never did.

    “the first thing most of them want to do is adapt.”

    Some groups, absolutely, no doubt about it, but some… Oh well…

    Those who wants to adapt usually do and succeed nicely. Finland provide all the tools and opportunities for that. I have experienced it myself and have no complains about it.

    “Racism is a tool to control other minorities by a majority/minority without sharing political/economic wealth.”

    It has been, today is being blow totally out of proportion to gain votes.

    • Enrique

      –Sorry but my question is still valid, he decided for assimilation and I just want to know if this decision has, in any way, help him and if he regrets this path.

      True, but assimilation is the wrong word. I like adaption, better, even integration as well wih some reservations. Do you really think that in our modern societies we have to throw away who we are and assimilate? Assimilation means total integration and forgetting one’s cultural background. Some, like Modood, have defined it as: “…where the desired outcome for society as a whole is seen as involving least change in the ways of doing things for the majroty of the country and its institutional policy.” In other words, I would call it the LAZY way of doing things.

  17. Tony Garcia

    So 20% of the cases are committed by less then 3% of the population? Interesting statistics, especially when we take in consideration that those 20% are basically committed by a group with represents a fraction of those 3%…

    It’s time to stop generalize immigrants. It’s time to stop saying “immigrants” but nominate the group of immigrants when reporting the news. It’s time to call a spade a spade.

  18. Tony Garcia

    “Do you really think that in our modern societies we have to throw away who we are and assimilate?”

    Assimilation, as you know very well, doesn’t mean you throw away who you are but parts of your culture with are not acceptable to the society you freely decided to immigrate to. I called it – the two ways road.

    I decided to immigrate and, most importantly, I decided where immigrate, so assimilation is the most sensible and honest thing to do. And, as proved here many times, it works beautifully. If I wanted to live under Sharia I’d not have moved to Finland, I’d have gone to Iran.

    ” I would call it the LAZY way of doing things.”

    That’s your opinion, I do respect it, However you also must respect that others, Finns and immigrants alike, may not agree with it. That’s the price you pay to live in a free society.

    • Enrique

      –That’s the price you pay to live in a free society.

      I think an important creterion is that it works.

  19. Tony Garcia

    “I think an important creterion is that it works.”

    So what’s the matter then? Pay the price and let it work. However sometimes I wonder if you are really ready to pay it. Just see how sore you go just from what I asked to Erik. Free society as long as the line of thinking is within the parameters established?

    How about diversity? you are all for it, aren’t you? And how about diversity of thought? “I like A very much” and “I really like A” are not really diversity of thought, “I like A” and “I don’t like A”, this is diversity, but you are not really for this kind, are you? Because it’d cross the boundaries of the “acceptable idea”, and that is not tolerated in a “free society”, is it?

    There are two way for immigrants, multiculturalism and assimilation. All immigrants who has been in this forum and decided for the second has succeeded and all answered the same, they don’t have any regrets. However those who have decided for the first…

    For me that’s this is all that matters, the result. Assimilation works best not only for the host country but also for the immigrants. You give a bit and you take a bit. The so called “two way road”.

    You don’t need to agree with it, but the majority of Finns and many immigrants do. Once you think that the price for a free society is worth of it, how about pay it?

  20. Erik

    @Tony
    – Sorry but my question is still valid, he decided for assimilation and I just want to know if this decision has, in any way, help him and if he regrets this path. I just want to hear his opinion about it. –

    Yes Tony I did tried and I want to think that after more than 1 year of living in Netherlands… I never had any problem with racism or discrimination. But the difference is that I tried to integrate and the Dutch helped me and welcomed me. You know what I was happy to see here happening. For instance on the World Cup football when Netherlands were making progress as a team and making it to finals you could see Maroccans, African Blacks and Asians to celebrate with them and being happy for that. Why you think that happened? Because they felt in Holland like in home, they felt Dutch. Same goes for Sweden… if you could only see how foreign-Swedes reply when you ask them about Sweden. Of course I am not saying that EVERYONE is doing fine, you can always find corruption even in the best family/society/nation and so on.

    From what I understand people that tried to integrate in the Finnish society failed, not because they were unable to do it but only because the Finnish still did not appreciated it. They never welcomed them, they still bash them. What I asked Hannu was, how one can define the integration process? A lot of Finns here were claiming that the foreigners are not learning the language and not behaving according to the Finnish standards. Still I ask you, if you would see a black guy speaking not fluently but PERFECTLY Finnish and behaving more or less like an average Finn. Wouldn’t he still be descriminated by the majority of Finns? Question yourself and ask honestly.

    For a note, I am not in favor of uncotrolled massive immigration, as it have caused a lot of troubles to Europe aswell. But to a controlled immigration and since someone already took the decision and is already residing in Finland he should not be treated like a second class human.

    I think the only way for humanity to stand together is if we would discover Alien species or be invaded by one. Only then… but I don’t see it happening in the near future so… ENJOY THE WAR, YOU DESERVED IT.

  21. Tiwaz

    -“From what I understand people that tried to integrate in the Finnish society failed, not because they were unable to do it but only because the Finnish still did not appreciated it. They never welcomed them, they still bash them. What I asked Hannu was, how one can define the integration process? A lot of Finns here were claiming that the foreigners are not learning the language and not behaving according to the Finnish standards. Still I ask you, if you would see a black guy speaking not fluently but PERFECTLY Finnish and behaving more or less like an average Finn. Wouldn’t he still be descriminated by the majority of Finns? Question yourself and ask honestly. ”

    And do you have any evidence that such black man would be discriminated?

    Apparently you have not bothered to read this blog much.

    Tony is not Finn. He comes from Brazil I think, but HAS lived in Finland. He got a job easily, lived nice life. According to his own statement he had little to no issues. But then again, he made HONEST attempt to integration, not lip service to it.

    Clearly your statement is running into some serious problems here.

    Want more black men in Finland? Jani Toivola.
    Black as moonless night and gay to boot.

    He appears to have been able to get hang of it quite nicely. Has not been a breeze for him, no, but he has not met impossible challeges and appears to live rather nice and happy life. Celebrity even.

    William H Carson. Another black man, this time from USA who made a nice career for himself in Finland during days when his kind were rather rare sight.

    Erik, you do not live in Finland and have no first hand knowledge so how about you stop pretending that you have any idea of what Finland is like?

  22. Tony Garcia

    Erik, Thanks for your reply.

    Of course you are right, immigrants can’t got anywhere if the host country doesn’t allow them. Anyone knows that. Also, of course, there is racism in Finland just as in everywhere, but in this blog it has been blown out of proportion.

    That being said we need to see things as they are. I’m not Finn, and don’t even speak the language, my wife and children are. I move to Finland about 9 years ago and started to work as engineer just 20 days after set my foot there for the very first time, how racist is that? I have plenty of Finnish friends, and was asked to be godfather twice, how racist is that?

    During my journey I met many immigrants from many different races, all are doing very well. I have two black Americans friends, both senior engineers, with are very happy in there, they don’t even think about go back to US, why would they be in a country with hates them?

    In this very same blog, there many of us who said the same, I adapted and live happy in Finland, why do you think Enrique got sore when I asked you?

    Thrust me, it’s not about race, it’s all about attitude. In this blog race is always brought to the discussion just to try to cloud it. You said yourself about Moroccans in Holland, the problem in Finland are Somalis. This blog insist that their failure in Finland is due racism, but I brought up here official reports from UK, US, Sweden and Netherlands, in all these countries their unemployment rate is much higher than in Finland, in the US they are the group who have the highest level of poverty.

    Finland do support immigrates very well, make no mistake. They have strong antidiscrimination laws with are very well enforced. If you want, as you did, you can make a very nice life for you and your family in there, thrust me, I have done and I have seen.

    However for some groups play the race card is always an easer way to go.

    • Enrique

      –Also, of course, there is racism in Finland just as in everywhere, but in this blog it has been blown out of proportion.

      Nice try, Tony. Didn’t you say that racism was only a phenomenon “invented by the left?” Eric, Tony lives in Ireland and lives a comfortable life working for a Finnish company. He has not had to (1) learn Finnish nor (2) look for a job in Finland.

  23. Tony Garcia

    “Didn’t you say that racism was only a phenomenon “invented by the left?” ”

    Nop I always said that it’s very small in size but it’s exploited by the left for political gain.

    “Tony lives in Ireland and lives a comfortable life” – True.

    “working for a Finnish company.” – No true.

    “He has not had to look for a job in Finland” – No true

    Is this your new tactic now? What a same, I’m sure you can do batter than that…

  24. Tony Garcia

    Erik, if you have some time let me give you an example…

    About 7 years ago I was working for Nokia in Tampere (my imaginary job according to this blog) and we had a very nice international team. I don’t know how much you know about Finland but they are just crazy for sauna. All celebrations end up in sauna. However binge drinking is also a common practice in there. I’m Brazilian, so we have a far more different approach to alcohol than Finns.

    I’ve always been invited for the sauna party, and even though it’s against my culture being naked in a dark room with a bunch of drunk guys, I just said “what a hell”… I used to go to those parties and stay until, for me, it was getting to wild. And I was not the only foreigner there. We had a very nice team spirit and companionship. That was the Finnish way and I accept it, and actually had a great time, after couple of beer Finns speaks like parrots, isn’t that so Twiaz?

    Everything was nice until an engineer from Middle East join the group. About 2 months after he started, he storm into the line manager office demanding that we stopped the sauna parties because it was against his religion and threatened to sue the company for religious discrimination. Well, few weeks later he was transferred and we never hear from him again. Everyone celebrated it.

    He had 2 options, “lets join the lads and have fun” or “it has to be the way i think it should be”. He decided for the second and all the team, Finns and immigrants alike, just hated him. Racism? I’m sure he still think so…

    That’s the difference I always say about race and attitude. Race doesn’t matter, attitude does. If you have a good attitude, Finland will be a nice place to live, independently of your race.

  25. Erik

    Tony just to let you know… I am against racism but at the same time I am against Islam and uncontrolled massive immigration from the middle asia.

    Enrique sorry but I think I already told you about my opinion on this matter before.

    We need to recognise that there is a problem with Muslims in Europe.

    • Enrique

      –We need to recognise that there is a problem with Muslims in Europe.

      OK, then how are you going to “fix” this problem?

  26. Tony Garcia

    “We need to recognise that there is a problem with Muslims in Europe.”

    You hit the nail in the head mate, the is a huge problem with is growing by the day, but it’s an elephant in the room. No one wants to talk about it. Politicians are scare to even mention Islam, especially those from countries with massive Muslim population. The last thing they want is thousands of angry Muslims rioting on their streets. UK, France and Sweden have seen enough of it.

    Let me show you a video. In it you’ll see an American (probably liberal) “explaining” the actions of the time square bomber, them a Muslim opinion about this “explanation”.

    The end is excellent, Hirsi Ali say what most don’t want to hear – “Why we don’t exam their convictions?”

    That’s a question that few wants answered…

    • Enrique

      –The end is excellent, Hirsi Ali say what most don’t want to hear – “Why we don’t exam their convictions?”

      Tony, here we go again with the Muslim stuff… I still do not have any idea how you plan to solve your differences with the Muslims? Prohibit their religion? Kick them out? Change the constitution? Water down civil rights?

      Are you that naive that if somebody pulled this off they would not go after other minorities?

  27. Tony Garcia

    “OK, then how are you going to “fix” this problem?”

    How about start to listening to others?

    http://media.blubrry.com/datelinewashington/www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.radioamerica.org/loudwater/wnd_news/000004084_000_000000013.mp3

    “It’s highly unlikely if we’d have another attach that would be Saudis or foreigners, it’s much more likely to be Americans citizens or British citizens.”

    “How much of this do you think is a result of the increasing permissibility, especially in the UK, of Sharia law?”

    “I think to the extend that you abdicate your sense of sourverently, when a country abdicates its souventry and has the expectation that its citizens should adapt to the practices of those immigrating to their country rather than expecting immigrants to adapt to the practices to the country they are adopting, you are making a big mistake, and you really create the circumstances that makes these acts of terrorism easer. I think it’s very regrettable.”

    “We expect people who’s coming to the US to adopt the American way, we don’t really ask Americans to adopt the way of their immigrants, that’s the great strength of the country. One of the reason you’ve got these cells flourishing in the UK and in France and in Germany is that they haven’t been so successful in making immigrants to adapt to our way of life and out values.”

    • Enrique

      Tony, who is radioamerica.org? Is it Tea Party or further to the right.

      This is what the site says: “Radio America’s mission is to produce and syndicate quality radio programs reflecting a “commitment to traditional American values, limited government and the free market.”

      Objectivity? Slanted? Islamophobic?

  28. Ariel Deutscher

    It is interesting that Israel seems to have fewer problems with its well over one million Muslim citizens than some certain European countries are supposedly getting with a few thousand.

    In Finland some talk about what they see as the disastrous “Swedish way” of doing things and want Finland to become the Switzerland of the north with its direct democracy and tight immigration laws. As a reminder to those: in Switzerland there are twice as many Muslims as in Finland and Sweden combined.

  29. Tiwaz

    -“That was the Finnish way and I accept it, and actually had a great time, after couple of beer Finns speaks like parrots, isn’t that so Twiaz? ”

    Talk like parrots and mostly utter BS. I’m teetotaller myself but I don’t mind company parties. I think seeing people get totally drunk lets me see their true selves.

    -“Tony, here we go again with the Muslim stuff… I still do not have any idea how you plan to solve your differences with the Muslims? Prohibit their religion? Kick them out? Change the constitution? Water down civil rights? ”

    Tell them it’s this way or highway. Finland has long term muslim community, they are called Tatars. But they were told to suck it up in the days before multiculturalism and political correctness.

    They adjusted. Today they are perfectly Finnish folk who have one unusual extra language and some odd habits. They have rather few of the traditions their religious brethen have, instead having become culturally Finnish.

    I do not wish to see return of 18th or 19th century, but reality is that either immigrants stop expecting society around them to appease them, or backlash WILL come and it will hit hard.

    Islam is not the problem as proven by tatar minority. Culture of those people who traditionally have Islam as religion is the problem. And telling them to live as if they were still in Wahabbistan when in Finlad will NOT fix that problem.

  30. Tiwaz

    Enrique, what does it matter what political side that belongs?

    Discredit their arguments, not just declare them wrong because.

    And since when have you cared about objectivity? I have hard time seeing YOU present any when speaking of immigrants.

    • Enrique

      –Of course, what else?

      Neocon-leaning, ultra-right wing, Tea Party etc. There are many labels.

  31. Tony Garcia

    “I still do not have any idea how you plan to solve your differences with the Muslims?”

    Amanda said it well

    “We expect people who’s coming to the US to adopt the American way, we don’t really ask Americans to adopt the way of their immigrants, that’s the great strength of the country. “

    • Enrique

      –“I still do not have any idea how you plan to solve your differences with the Muslims?” Amanda said it well “We expect people who’s coming to the US to adopt the American way, we don’t really ask Americans to adopt the way of their immigrants, that’s the great strength of the country. ”

      This affirmation assumes that a certain religious group does not adapt and that we have to throw away our liberal principles. Tony, honestly, do you think that if the answer was this simple that it would not have been tried? You forgot to mention where the person says that the Muslims cannot adapt to our way of life.

      As far as I am concerned, this is a bunch of boloney earmarked for conservative and far-right, Tea Party consumption.

  32. Tony Garcia

    “This affirmation assumes that a certain religious group does not adapt.”

    This is not an assumption, it’s the reality, just look around.

    “Tony, honestly, do you think that if the answer was this simple that it would not have been tried?”

    Be on the left means you never have to say sorry. You appease Muslims and you get their votes.

    “As far as I am concerned, this is a bunch of boloney earmarked for conservative and far-right, Tea Party consumption.”

    Of course it is, what else could it be? Truth? No way…

    “Neocon-leaning, ultra-right wing, Tea Party etc. There are many labels.”

    Thanks, your contra-arguments are always very inspiring…

    • Enrique

      –Be on the left means you never have to say sorry. You appease Muslims and you get their votes.

      In the first place I do not belong to any political party. Secondly, I am not trying to gain votes to “appease” Muslims.

      I personally see in you arguments the same elements that will undermine our democratic system. You claim to be after one group but then you will go after another one, and another one, and yet another one… It never ends. And in the process you will only sow the seeds of your own destruction.

    • Enrique

      –Thanks, your contra-arguments are always very inspiring…

      Tell me how you can debate anything with a group that wants to eat the whole pie and on its terms. Please note that Europe has many minorities who are Europeans. That is a fact that you cannot make disappear no matter what. Accept that society belongs to everyone it does not belong to one group.

  33. Tony Garcia

    “In the first place I do not belong to any political party. Secondly, I am not trying to gain votes to “appease” Muslims. ”

    Who’s talking about you? You asked why it hasn’t been tried, so I answered. Simple.

    But I have to say, you are very apocalyptic today…

    ” And in the process you will only sow the seeds of your own destruction.”

    “Those group that claim to defend “Finnish culture” are the very ones that will end up destroying the country. They will impoverish it and scare away Finns and labor immigrants never mind jobs and foreign investment. Finland will be its worst enemy if that happens.”

    Tell me when do you think the aliens will invade?

    ” Europe has many minorities who are Europeans.”

    Absolutely. Some are doing very well, some no quite. Those who are failing should start rethinking their way of doing things and join the crowd.

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