A new view of our diversity as a society is needed by the Finnish police

by , under All categories, Enrique

By Enrique Tessieri

The violence we have witnessed recently against immigrants in cities like Oulu and Espoo Leppävaara put into question the claim that hate crimes fell by 15%  in 2010, according to the Police College of Finland. Apart from raising worrisome questions about the present direction of our society it looks at the role of the police in answering this threat.

Reporting a hate crime to the authorities can be easier said than done, according to a Migrant Tales blog entry.  The low hate-crime figure in 2010 could reveal a worrisome reality:  Mistrust of the police by some immigrants.

It is nothing new that Finland’s society is becoming more culturally and ethnically diverse. The rise of some parties like the anti-immigration Perussuomalaiset (PS), and the ongoing heated debate on some anti-immigration forums, reveal that some Finns, and even immigrants, are either in denial or ignorant about such an ever-growing group.

This reality can be seen in our police force, where you’ll find dear little representation of that ever-growing “Other” Finland.

Migrant Tales got in touch with the police and asked how many non-white police there were in Finland. According to the present law, the police are not required to reveal the ethnic identity of its employees. While steps are being taken to diversify Finland’s police force and change the law in order to recruit more non-white Finns to the force, it is still unclear when this will happen, according to the police.

While I am certain that there are many service-community minded policemen and policewomen in Finland, there appears to be at present a lack of political will to do so.

The apparent lack of will to change matters on this front could explain why the immigrant community has mixed feeling about the police.  Some claim that the police do a fine job while others express mistrust and accuse them of racial profiling.

One good way to undermine mistrust and bolster credibility of the police force is by diversifying it and ensuring immigrants and visible minorities in the process that they are equally protected, not persecuted.  Being colorblind, or arguing that ethnicity has no bearing on a crime, does more harm to the integrity of the police force and its assurances that it serves each member of the community equally.

Changing Finland’s police force to represent “Other” Finns and immigrants may be easier said than done.  As with the rest of society, many still find it difficult to accept immigrants and Finns who are visible minorities as equals. The recent warning by the police about hate speech and racism on the Internet reinforce the latter perception and should concern us all.


  1. D4R

    It’s true that, in order to have fully equality in this country, we may need diversity in the police force. Finland has to recognize that, there are colored finns too, and they’re getting neglected.

  2. D4R

    Oh yes, there is a racial profiling in Finland. How come a harmless Somali gets stopped, while a russian smuggler gets a pass? i think finns should be more concern of their neighbors, instead focusing on harmless people like Somalis. And yes i said harmless, what threat Somalis are to your country? non, despite that, they’re taken as a shooting point.

    • Migrant Tales

      –And yes i said harmless, what threat Somalis are to your country?

      The treatment of Somalis by some Finns reveals the dark side of Finland. It is that Finland that is in denial about racism/bigotry and does not want to show to anyone its real face except on hate forums like Hommaforum and others.

  3. Hannu

    harmless… http://www.kaleva.fi/uutiset/oulu/meri-toppilan-puukottajalle-vaaditaan-tuomiota-tapon-yrityksesta/930169 and i shouldnt even need to mention Abdigadir Osman Hussein or that recent case where 4 or 5 black mens stabbed lone finn or that between, dont know if somalis but as biggest black group they probably were. Between 1997-2006 4% of suspects of robberies or aggravated robberies were somalis.
    And for extra i add CV of that one somali that court actually kicked out of finland.

    Syyllistyminen rikoksiin

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 22.3.2006 tuominnut A:n varkaudesta, lievästä petoksesta, lievästä pahoinpitelystä, pahoinpitelyn yrityksestä, lievästä vahingonteosta sekä ryöstöstä 11 kuukauden vankeuteen. Tuomio ei ole lainvoimainen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 26.9.2005 tuominnut A:n tuottamuksellisesta kätkemisrikoksesta ja törkeästä pahoinpitelystä 1 vuoden ja 3 kuukauden vankeuteen. Tuomio ei ole lainvoimainen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 13.6.2005 tuominnut A:n pahoinpitelystä ja kätkemisrikoksesta 80 päiväsakkoon. Tuomio on lainvoimainen.

    Helsingin hovioikeus on 7.4.2005 tuominnut A:n nuorena henkilönä pahoinpitelystä 20 päiväsakkoon. Tuomio on täytäntöönpanokelpoinen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 28.10.2004 tuominnut A:n nuorena henkilönä varkaudesta 35 päiväsakkoon. Tuomio on lainvoimainen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 11.6.2004 tuominnut A:n ryöstöstä ja törkeästä ryöstöstä 2 vuoden ja 4 kuukauden vankeuteen. Helsingin hovioikeus ei ole 14.1.2005 muuttanut tuomiota. Tuomio on lainvoimainen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 18.5.2004 tuominnut A:n nuorena henkilönä pahoinpitelystä 30 päiväsakkoon. Tuomio on lainvoimainen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 12.5.2004 tuominnut A:n nuorena henkilönä pahoinpitelystä 20 päiväsakkoon. Helsingin hovioikeus ei ole 7.4.2005 muuttanut tuomiota. Tuomio on lainvoimainen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 1.4.2004 tuominnut A:n nuorena henkilönä pahoinpitelystä ja varkauden yrityksestä 40 päiväsakkoon. Tuomio on lainvoimainen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 11.2.2004 tuominnut A:n poissaolosta oikeudesta vastaajana 200 euron uhkasakkoon. Tuomio on lainvoimainen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 19.6.2003 tuominnut A:n nuorena henkilönä varkaudesta, vahingonteosta, pahoinpitelystä ja kolmesta ryöstöstä 40 tuntiin nuorisopalvelua. Tuomio on lainvoimainen. Tuomio on lainvoimainen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 16.6.2003 tuominnut A:n nuorena henkilönä lievästä pahoinpitelystä 20 päiväsakkoon. Tuomio on lainvoimainen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on todennut tuomiossaan 7.3.2002 A:n syyllistyneen nuorena henkilönä tehtyihin kolmeen laittomaan uhkaukseen ja lievään vahingontekoon.A on jätetty tuomitsematta rangaistukseen.

    Lisäksi A on saanut rangaistusmääräyksiä seuraavasti:
    – 31.5.2006 varkauden yrityksestä 30 päiväsakkoa
    – 24.3.2006 näpistyksestä 10 päiväsakkoa
    – 2.2.2006 näpistyksestä 10 päiväsakkoa
    – 31.8.2005 näpistyksestä 12 päiväsakkoa
    – 30.6.2005 näpistyksestä 26 päiväsakkoa
    – 30.11.2004 näpistyksestä 18 päiväsakkoa
    – 30.7.2004 näpistyksestä 6 päiväsakkoa
    – 31.5.2004 näpistyksestä 8 päiväsakkoa
    – 30.4.2004 näpistyksestä 12 päiväsakkoa
    – 20.9.2003 näpistyksestä 12 päiväsakkoa
    – 29.8.2003 järjestyssääntörikkomuksesta 6 päiväsakkoa
    – 29.8.2003 näpistyksestä 8 päiväsakkoa
    – 31.7.2003 lievästä petoksesta 9 päiväsakkoa
    – 16.6.2003 nuorena henkilönä lievästä pahoinpitelystä 20 päiväsakkoa

    A on tai on ollut lisäksi vuonna 2006 epäiltynä seuraavista rikoksista:
    – 9.10.2006 tapahtunut niskoittelu poliisia vastaan, rikosilmoitus 6070/R/165740/06
    – 24.9.2006 tapahtunut näpistyksen yritys, rikosilmoitus 6070/R/162167/06
    – 12.8.2006 tapahtunut ryöstö, rikosilmoitus 6070/R/151236/06
    – 23.7.2006 tapahtunut niskoittelu poliisia vastaan, rikosilmoitus 6070/R/146082/06
    – 16.6.2006 tapahtunut näpistys, rikosilmoitus 6070/R/137877/06
    – 12.6.2006 tapahtunut huumausaineen käyttörikos, rikosilmoitus 6070/R/136816/06
    – 5.6.2006 tapahtunut vangin karkaaminen, rikosilmoitus 6070/R/134979/06
    – 18.5.2006 tapahtunut huumausainerikos, rikosilmoitus 6070/R/130556/06
    – 13.5.2006 tapahtunut varkaus, rikosilmoitus 6070/R/129654/06
    – 3.5.2006 tapahtunut ryöstön yritys, rikosilmoitus 6070/R/126997/06
    – 25.4.2006 tapahtunut varkaus, rikosilmoitus 6070/R/125024/06
    – 12.4.2006 tapahtunut pahoinpitely, rikosilmoitus 6070/R/122165/06
    – 9.4.2006 tapahtunut huumausaineen käyttörikos, rikosilmoitus 6070/R/121454/06
    – 12.1.2006 tapahtunut ryöstö, rikosilmoitus 6070/R/102545/06.

    And CV of one they didnt.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 26.1.2005 tuominnut X:n pahoinpitelystä 60 päivään vankeutta. Tuomio ei ole lainvoimainen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on tuominnut X:n 11.6.2004 2 vuoden 2 kuukauden vankeuteen törkeästä ryöstöstä ja varkaudesta. Helsingin hovioikeus ei ole 14.1.2005 muuttanut tuomiota. Tuomio on lainvoimainen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 2.6.2004 tuominnut X:n nuorena henkilönä tehdystä ryöstön yrityksestä ehdolliseen vankeuteen 9 kuukaudeksi. Tuomio on lainvoimainen.

    Vantaan käräjäoikeus on 18.2.2004 tuominnut X:n varkauden yrityksestä ja lievästä petoksesta yhden kuukauden vankeusrangaistukseen. Tuomio on lainvoimainen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 16.6.2003 tuominnut X:n pahoinpitelystä, kahdesta teräaseen hallussapidosta yleisellä paikalla, törkeästä pahoinpitelystä, seitsemästä pahoinpitelystä, ryöstöstä ja laittomasta uhkauksesta 2 vuoden 4 kuukauden vankeuteen. Helsingin hovioikeus ei ole 9.10.2003 muuttanut tuomiota. Tuomio on lainvoimainen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 19.11.2002 tuominnut X:n kahdesta varkaudesta, kahdesta pahoinpitelystä, teräaseen hallussapidosta yleisellä paikalla ja vahingonteosta 40 päivään vankeutta. Helsingin hovioikeus ei ole 11.11.2004 muuttanut tuomiota. Tuomio on lainvoimainen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 20.11.2001 tuominnut X:n nuorena henkilönä tehdystä kahdesta ryöstöstä ehdolliseen 4 kuukauden vankeusrangaistukseen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 23.8.2001 tuominnut X:n nuorena henkilönä tehdystä varkaudesta, ryöstöstä ja varkaudesta 6 kuukauden ehdolliseen vankeuteen. Tuomio on lainvoimainen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 28.2.2001 tuominnut X:n kahdesta törkeästä pahoinpitelystä ja yhdestä pahoinpitelystä yhdeksi vuodeksi vankeuteen. Helsingin hovioikeus ei ole 21.12.2001 muuttanut tuomiota. Tuomio on lainvoimainen.

    Helsingin käräjäoikeus on 7.11.2000 tuominnut X:n ryöstöstä, teräaseen hallussapidosta yleisellä paikalla 6 kuukaudeksi ehdolliseen vankeuteen. Helsingin hovioikeus ei ole 31.1.2002 muuttanut tuomiota.

    X on saanut rangaistusvaatimuksia seuraavasti:

    Helsingin kihlakunnan syyttäjävirastolta:
    31.3.2003 näpistys, 22 päiväsakkoa
    31.10.2003 teräaseen hallussapito yleisellä paikalla 10 päiväsakkoa

    Vantaan kihlakunnan syyttäjäosastolta:
    17.11.2002 lievä petos, 14 päiväsakkoa

    Vantaan käräjäoikeudelta:
    15.10.2003 lievä petos, 8 päiväsakkoa

    Helsingin käräjäoikeudelta:
    2.6.2004 Nuorena henkilönä ryöstön yritys, ehdollisen vankeusrangaistuksen ohella 37 päiväsakkoa

    Muunnetut sakot:

    Tuusulan käräjäoikeus on 7.4.2005 muuntanut maksamatta olleet 32 päiväsakkoa, yhteensä 192,00 euroa, 16 päiväksi vankeutta.

    X on lisäksi epäiltynä mm. seuraavista rikoksista:

    17.6.2006 tapahtunut varkaus, rikosilmoitus 6070/R/137914/06
    8.4.2006 tapahtunut pahoinpitely, rikosilmoitus 6070/R/121282/06
    15.3.2006 tapahtunut pahoinpitely, rikosilmoitus 6070/R/115977/06
    15.3.2006 tapahtunut pahoinpitely, rikosilmoitus 6070/R/115801/06.

    The treatment of finns by some somalis reveals dark side of somalis.

  4. D4R

    Hannu, your statistics doesnt proof anything. we can take any troubled young finns criminal racord and compare who makes worst than who. For instance the finn who kileld that youn maroccan in pizzeria, according to police he killed his friend with axe, so does that mean all finn including you’re a killers? so you showed us here, some troubled somali youths criminal records, does that mean, all Somalis are criminals, including me?? no, that’s ridiculous. Like i said before, if a somali does a criminal he or she should pay the price, but bringing here crime stats of some troubled youths, claiming all Somalis are criminals is stupid and nonsense.
    And where did you get these criminal records? i thought they’re personal and not open to the public. Are you sure, you’re not working for the police?

  5. D4R

    Hannu, Somalis too have their bad apples, just like Finns do. How many finns kill eachother, or kill their family, or rob kiosk. How many finns molest children, how many finns shoot innocent people, and the list goes on. Hannu, I am asking you a question, Are you one of those that i mentioned?

  6. D4R

    BYTHEWAY I THINK POLICE ARE BREAKING THE LAW, FOR PUBLISHING PEOPLES PERSONAL CRIMINAL RECORDS, SO RACIST LIKE HANNU CAN USE IT AS RACIST AGENDA.

  7. D4R

    Migrant tales: So, Hannu, what is the point? What do you want to tell us?

    I think he tries to tell us, all Somalis are criminals, including me. that’s his stupid logic.

  8. Petri

    You say you’re not racists, but you demand that police should be hired by racial basis. If you weren’t a racist, you wouldn’t think that the race of a police would matter. I believe that Finnish police aren’t racially prejudiced. They are well educated and divilized people. We’re not some America.

    It’s undeniable fact that people from certain immigrant groups are more likely to drift into criminal path. Denying this fact doesn’t help them and doesn’t decrease racism – on the contrary.

    • Migrant Tales

      Petri, welcome to Migrant Tales.

      Look at it this way: colorblind racism. Here is a good link: http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/05/31/colour-blind-racism/

      –It’s undeniable fact that people from certain immigrant groups are more likely to drift into criminal path.

      So, if you are a law-abiding citizen of a group then you have to live with racial profiling and such assumptions for the rest of your life? Explain, please.

  9. Hannu

    Well if that violent individual who should have been in jail is proof of racism in finnish society then those are more than proof of racism in somali community.
    And my point is to shoot down that “harmless”.

    “And where did you get these criminal records?”

    From decisions of highest court. http://www.finlex.fi/fi/oikeus/kko/kko/

    • Migrant Tales

      –Well if that violent individual who should have been in jail is proof of racism in finnish society then those are more than proof of racism in somali community.

      That’s a funny conclusion. Hannu, seriously, if you want I can give you an even longer list of crimes committed by Finns. What is the point?

      If you want a tip, call the police and ask them this question: Are “foreigners” (does this mean all, 50%, a minority??) criminals? Please tell us and we will publish that story on Migrant Tales. You will be famous just like when you helped this blog in 2008.

  10. MarkusP

    Court records are public to a certain point, so no, THE POLICE IS NOT BREAKING THE LAW … blaa blaa blaa and so on…

    As for the “diversity” in the police force, what exactly prevents for example somalis to apply to the police academy and become police officers? (..let me guess, it must the racism lurking behind every corner..)

    • Migrant Tales

      Hi MarkusP and welcome to Migrant Tales.

      –As for the “diversity” in the police force, what exactly prevents for example somalis to apply to the police academy and become police officers?

      Good question. I think there are more reasons than plain mistrust from both sides.

  11. Hannu

    “like when you helped this blog in 2008. ”
    As i said and proved that wasnt me, you own me apology on accusing me.

    And when i said foreigners are criminals? In some foreign groups criminality is way over what it should be but all? Somalis as one group are way overpresented in any stats so there goes “harmless”.
    You use, probably mentally ill, individual with violent past who should be have been jail as example of finnish racism but what you did in shukopolli case?
    Where is your outcry on current rape/child rape/etc… case?

    • Migrant Tales

      Hannu, go to the police and get them to sign what you said: Somalis are all criminals. Please do that and post it as a thread.

  12. Petri

    “So, if you are a law-abiding citizen of a group then you have to live with racial profiling and such assumptions for the rest of your life? Explain, please.”

    People always belong to groups (culture, religion, tribe/nation/etc.). You simply cannot avoid the fact that you are always assigned to certain groups based on some characteristics. I am Finnish, and where ever I go, the reputation of my group affects people’s first reactions towards me. Every bad doings of other people belonging to the same group necessarily affect also me. I’m lucky that Finns have good reputation in most countries, and I try not to ruin that reputation by my own behaviour.

    • Migrant Tales

      –People always belong to groups (culture, religion, tribe/nation/etc.). You simply cannot avoid the fact that you are always assigned to certain groups based on some characteristics.

      True, we are social animals. But the thing that gets me about your claim is that those groups have “some characteristics.” “Some?” Do you mean language? Do you mean criminality?

      Petri, even if you are Finnish you are an individual with free will. The only thing about your behavior is that it is predictable. People from the same group can predict some behavior. However, criminality isn’t predictable. Do you believe that if you meat a person from group x you will get murdered immediately? Of course. That would be absurd.

      You have now entered an interesting area: racial profiling.

  13. Hannu

    Criminality is actually social construction, so behaviour what is socially accepted and even forced in some cultures are crimes in finland.
    So criminality is predictable.

    • Migrant Tales

      –Criminality is actually social construction, so behaviour what is socially accepted and even forced in some cultures are crimes in finland.

      What you are saying is the following: What is acceptable in one culture is not in another.

      If you really believe the urban tales you are spreading here, could you get this in writing from the police or some university where they claim that certain cultures are prone to commit crimes. Do you mean that Finns are prone to commit pedophilia in foreign places like Thailand? When they step on Thai soil, do they turn into pedophiles? Or do Finns go to pizzerias shooting innocent people and then take their own life? Is that what you mean by “predictability?”

    • Migrant Tales

      Hannu, please stop asking dumb questions. Here is something for you on colorblind racism. Here is the link: http://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/05/31/colour-blind-racism/

      Colour-blind racists say things like this:

      It’s not race, it’s economics …
      It’s not race, it’s culture …
      It’s not race, it depends on a person’s background …
      I’m not prejudiced, but …
      I’m not black, but …
      One of my best friends is black.
      My cousin married a black man.
      I voted for Barack Obama of in the case of Finland for Abdirahim Husu Hussein.
      I don’t see you as black.

      And believe things like this (substitute black for “immigrant”):

      I am not racist.
      Blacks are not willing to work hard.
      Blacks want everything handed to them.
      Blacks hold themselves back, not racism.
      Blacks are unfairly favoured, whites are not.
      Blacks do not want to live with us (or eat at our table).
      Blacks live in the past. They need to get over it and move on.
      Blacks need to pull themselves up from the bottom like everyone else.
      Blacks cry racism for everything even though they are the racist ones. This last one is especially dedicated to those bloggers who visit Migrant Tales and play down racism in this country.

  14. Hannu

    Other what i want to know is that how much people have to say in their “untouchability”. What you think?
    And according to current news people from south america dont think like finns.

    • Migrant Tales

      They are dumb, Hannu. They make no sense. Please go to the police and get them to endorse your views.

    • Migrant Tales

      –So you are claiming that laws and traditions are same in every culture?

      No I never said that.

      However, the problem with our debate for years on end has been that you do not give any solutions. It’s constant whining about how bad x groups is and why y group doesn’t eat lenkkimakkara in the morning.

      Give us some solutions. We are a culturally diverse society. No matter how much you kick and bitch, that is the way we are.

  15. D4R

    Hannu: Well if that violent individual who should have been in jail is proof of racism in finnish society then those are more than proof of racism in somali community.
    And my point is to shoot down that “harmless”.

    “And where did you get these criminal records?”

    From decisions of highest court. http://www.finlex.fi/fi/oikeus/kko/kko/

    Hannu, ive been following your post to this threa, ive to say you’re a racist. how come you only attack somalis, when they arent your biggest threat. You know and i know, who’re your biggest threat, but you deny to see that, the only reason why you and the other racist attack Somalis only is becus, THEY HAPPEN TO BE DARK COLORED PEOPLE.

  16. D4R

    Markusp: Court records are public to a certain point, so no, THE POLICE IS NOT BREAKING THE LAW … blaa blaa blaa and so on…

    As for the “diversity” in the police force, what exactly prevents for example somalis to apply to the police academy and become police officers? (..let me guess, it must the racism lurking behind every corner..)

    Ok then, so what is you guys point, for posting some Somalis criminals record? are you guys trying to tell us that, all Somalis are criminals? it doesnt work like that. Somalis shouldnt be expected to be some sort of angels, who’re not prone to wrong doing, just like Finns. There’re some bad apple among Somalis too, just like the Finns who kill, murder and rob. Markus, calling a whole nation as a criminals, will only make you apppear stupid and dumb, just like it’d make me appear, if i were about to call, all Finns as a murderers or killers.

  17. Petri

    I wouldn’t say racial profiling, because race is a biological feature. Culture is what matters the most. Especially people coming from islamic cultures seem to cause problems more than others. In Finland the conflict likely comes from the status of women. In islam you are allowed to beat your wife if you think she doesn’t behave properly. In Finland beating women is not allowed in any situation. It seems that muslim men don’t respect non-muslim women. I would assume this lack of respect towards women is the main reason why men coming from islamic cultures are often at the top in rape statistics.

    If you can tell another explanation why muslim countries are on top of the rape statistics, I’m interested to hear.

    Here’s rape statistics aggregated from Tilastokeskus: http://www.izrailit.net/raiskaus_2005-2009.html
    And here’s the original source http://pxweb2.stat.fi/Database/StatFin/oik/syyttr/syyttr_fi.asp
    Here’s also unemployment statistics based on nationality: http://www.mol.fi/mol/fi/99_pdf/fi/04_maahanmuutto/08_maahanmuuttotilastot/wulktyoll.pdf

  18. Asian (Realy I am Chinese so I know my own reality)

    Hannu joka ei ymmärrä värisokeaa rasismia. Kannattaa katsoa asiaa toisin päin. Sinulla valkoisena on etuoikeuksia niin sanottu White Priviled. Käännä jokainen syrjintä hetki toisin päin. Jos minulta evätään kämpä Aasialaisuuteni takia niin se kämpä voi olla sinun. Somali pysäytetään koska tämä on potentiallinen rikollinen niin sinulla on etuoikeus olla pidättämättä. Jos Hannu rikkoo lakia niin se nähdään individualistin tekona mutta jos Musta ihminen tekee saman niin se on todiste koko ryhmän väkivaltaisuudesta. Sinulla on etuoikeus olettaa että sinä olet aina edustettuna kaikkialla maailmalla normaalina ja aina oikeassa olevana valkoisena miehenä. Minulla ja muilla värillisillä ei ole etuoikeutta tulla edustetuksi positiivisella tavalla mediassa tai yhtään missään muualla.

    Värisokeaan rasismiin sanon että koko maahanmuutto keskustelu on värisokean rasismin ruumiillistuma. Värisokeat rasistit käyttävät termejä jokta näyttävät rotu neutraaleilta mutta todellisuudeksa puhutaan vain värillisistä. Me näemme sitä kun katomme mihinsuuntaan hyökkäys oikeasti suuntautuu. Ei perussuomalaiset ole kiinostuneita venäläisistä tai virolaisista vaan värillisistä.

  19. Petri

    I think the issue about skin color is total bullshit. E.g. Asians look much different from us, and many Indians actually have black skin. Still Indians, Chinese, Thais, or most non-muslim non-caucasian looking people don’t cause problems, don’t have overy big unemployment and aren’t overrepresented in crime statistics.

    Finns aren’t generally racists even though media want’s to give that kind of impression. Disliking certain cultures doesn’t make one racist.

  20. justicedemon

    Chief Inspector Kalle Kekomäki belongs to a visible minority and has been working in various capacities in and around the police bureau at the Interior Ministry for many years, but I cannot recall encountering any other police officers with a comparable background, though I suppose there must be some from the longer-established national minorities.

    All that one can reasonably ask for in my opinion is a fair and equitable qualification and advancement process that includes candidates of all backgrounds, with care taken to ensure that minority communities are not overlooked in special recruiting programmes. All other things being equal, it is a desirable outcome for a police force to reflect and match the diversity of the population as a whole.

    ***

    It’s not clear whether Hannu is in reflective mode at the moment, or whether he will revert to drunken troll mode as a substitute for discussing his contribution above in the full context, and not merely as a vehicle for racist axe-grinding. Let’s find out:

    1. None of the offences on the list in either case indicates an offence aggravated by racial motivation, nor is the national or ethnic extraction of the victim specified for any offence. Hannu can, perhaps, explain how he knows that the victims were Finns in these cases.

    2. It is quite evident that the pattern of criminal behaviour and recidivism in both cases began when the offender was still a juvenile or a quite young adult. The details of the cases indicate that the first offender came to Finland as a 10 or 12 year-old (in 1997) and the second as a 10 year-old (in 1992). The earliest recorded offence committed by the first offender was tried in early 2002, when the offender had already been in Finland for about 5 years. The earliest recorded offence committed by the second offender was tried in late 2000, when the offender had already been in Finland for about 8 years. In the former case the court noted that the offender had formed no significant ties to Finland. Hannu can perhaps explain how far the Finnish educational and immigrant integration systems should take responsibility for a quite obvious failure of acculturation in these cases.

    I recommend reading the judgements in full before forming any general opinion. You will find them here and here. Perhaps Hannu can also explain why he selected these cases as in any way typical?

    ***

    Although published precedent decisions of the Supreme Administrative Court in expulsion cases do not name the individuals concerned, they do specify the destination country for the expulsion measures (although it is still a leap to assume ethnic extraction on this basis). Criminal records are normally held in confidence, but criminal convictions are generally matters of public record.

    If there is a significant problem in the list of offences provided in some expulsion appeal decisions, then it concerns convictions that are not legally final (“Tuomio ei ole lainvoimainen.” / “Tuomio on täytäntöönpanokelpoinen.”). These convictions are included only because of the special administrative character of expulsion decisions and the controversial doctrine that expulsion is not a punishment. Even allowing for this, however, I think it is particularly objectionable to include the status of being under suspicion of some offence (“epäiltynä”), as this conflicts with the principle of objectivity in administrative law (it is not an offence to be suspected of an offence). Of course it is important to distinguish between background information and the specific facts that underlie an administrative decision, but background that cannot be legally relevant should not be included in the first place.

  21. khr

    Jos Hannu rikkoo lakia niin se nähdään individualistin tekona mutta jos Musta ihminen tekee saman niin se on todiste koko ryhmän väkivaltaisuudesta.

    This actually does work both ways – just take a look how easily the recent violence is taken as generally representative of finns. When a member of a group does wrong, the other members see it as deeds of an individual; those outside the group are more prone to see it as deeds of a member of a group. Native finns outnumber everyone else, so the mischaracterisation is usually less obvious, than when it is applied to minorities.

    It’s up to everyone to work on ones judgement to see the individual in the group member.

  22. Mark

    Hannu

    Well if that violent individual who should have been in jail is proof of racism in finnish society then those are more than proof of racism in somali community.
    And my point is to shoot down that “harmless”.

    Hannu, I think you really miss the point that D4R was making and succeed only in painting yourself as a racist. The point is that the vast vast majority of Somalis living in Finland are law abiding, and they WOULD describe themselves as harmless. Not only that, but it really is completely unfair that they are somehow regarded, like you seem to make out, as being an automatic threat to society. It would be like me saying you must be a kiddy fiddler, because look at those high profile cases of Finnish going out to the Far East to indulge their pedophilia. Why should you be made responsible in any way for the actions of other Finns. When it comes to actions, we stand as individuals.

    No one Somali is responsible or should carry the stigma of the actions of another in exactly the same way that no one Finn is responsible or should carry the stigma of the actions of another Finn. To claim anything else really begins to undermine our individual freedoms.

    Not only that, but it’s just plain stupid and insane to try to denigrate a whole nationality on the basis of the actions of individuals. If 50% of Finns were criminal, it still would not be fair or right to blame the other 50%. The percentages don’t mean anything in terms of individual rights.

    But you don’t listen to single thing that’s said to you on here, Hannu, no matter how sincerely it is said or how clearly. You are deep in your prejudice, and this is just a place to advertise the fact.

  23. Mark

    Hannu

    What you think about beating or killing your relative who doesnt act how you want?

    Hannu…..! What kind of question is that? This is insane! Your talk is insane. Do you honestly believe that anyone on this blog believes that it is right to beat or kill a relative who doesn’t act the way you want? How can you ask that kind of question? What kind of monsters do you think we are?

    Do you think that someone who stands up to prejudice can only see bigotry in the groups they are challenging? There is bigotry and evil in Finnish society, and there is bigotry and evil in Somali society in Finland. WE ALL KNOW this, and why, oh why do you think for one second that we would think it is OKAY?

    This is impossible. How on earth can we discuss this issue if you are going to throw this kind of crap into the discussion? What on earth are you trying to prove? That we are so blind that we cannot even condemn the hateful murder of a relative? Do you not see us as human beings?

  24. Mark

    Petri

    Finns aren’t generally racists even though media want’s to give that kind of impression. Disliking certain cultures doesn’t make one racist.

    So attack individual representations of the culture you don’t like and not an entire group of people, as you are doing. Just because you are not prejudiced towards other ‘alien’ groups in Finland doesn’t mean that gives you the right to practice prejudice against just one group.

    How was it for the Nazis, I wonder? Well, I like Poles, Austrians, Hungarians, but those Jews and Gypsies, they really get my goat up! But hey, I mostly like foreigners!!!!!!!!!!!

  25. muuttolintu

    Laws need to be changed so that immigrated Finns can become police officers as well? That really destructs my view on Finland when there is such racist rule to non-white Finns.

    Which norms exactly are you refering to?

    • Migrant Tales

      Hi muuttolintu and welcome to our blog, Migrant Tales. The question, I believe, is why there are so few visible Finnish minorities on the Finnish force. This may be due to many factors. Let’s hope this situation will change. Black Finnish policemen and others of different ethnic origin would do the force a lot of good. It would bolster trust and credibility.

      Even so, and gathering from the responses from My Finland is International and on this blog, it appears that many are against such a plan.

  26. Mark

    Petri

    In islam you are allowed to beat your wife if you think she doesn’t behave properly. In Finland beating women is not allowed in any situation.

    You are joking, aren’t you? You did know that the perceived rate of domestic violence against women in Finland is the highest in Europe based on the 2010 Eurobarometer?

    You do know that 5 bus loads of Finnish women every 10 years are murdered by their partner or former partner? That’s 250 women, Petri!

    Not only that, but 32% of Finns, compared to 12% average across the EU, think that domestic violence doesn’t always have to be punished. 10% of people in Finland think the state should not do anything to help victims of domestic violence! What do you make of that, Petri?

    He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones.

  27. Mark

    muuttolintu

    Laws need to be changed so that immigrated Finns can become police officers as well? That really destructs my view on Finland when there is such racist rule to non-white Finns.

    The law referred to is not a law barring non-white Finns from the police force, but on reporting on the ethnic diversity within the Police force. That ban on ethnicity as a demographic variable is across all of Finland’s data registers. Alternative means are used usually to identify ethnicity in research, such as mother tongue of respondent or of respondents parents.

  28. D4R

    Asian: Hannu joka ei ymmärrä värisokeaa rasismia. Kannattaa katsoa asiaa toisin päin. Sinulla valkoisena on etuoikeuksia niin sanottu White Priviled. Käännä jokainen syrjintä hetki toisin päin. Jos minulta evätään kämpä Aasialaisuuteni takia niin se kämpä voi olla sinun. Somali pysäytetään koska tämä on potentiallinen rikollinen niin sinulla on etuoikeus olla pidättämättä. Jos Hannu rikkoo lakia niin se nähdään individualistin tekona mutta jos Musta ihminen tekee saman niin se on todiste koko ryhmän väkivaltaisuudesta. Sinulla on etuoikeus olettaa että sinä olet aina edustettuna kaikkialla maailmalla normaalina ja aina oikeassa olevana valkoisena miehenä. Minulla ja muilla värillisillä ei ole etuoikeutta tulla edustetuksi positiivisella tavalla mediassa tai yhtään missään muualla.

    Värisokeaan rasismiin sanon että koko maahanmuutto keskustelu on värisokean rasismin ruumiillistuma. Värisokeat rasistit käyttävät termejä jokta näyttävät rotu neutraaleilta mutta todellisuudeksa puhutaan vain värillisistä. Me näemme sitä kun katomme mihinsuuntaan hyökkäys oikeasti suuntautuu. Ei perussuomalaiset ole kiinostuneita venäläisistä tai virolaisista vaan värillisistä.

    Asian, minulla ei ole tähän muuta lisättävää, sanoit sen niin kuin se on. Eli Hannu ja muut rasistit, jotka tulevat tänne, syyttäjen kokonaista ryhmää kuten Somalilaisia rikollisiksi, ovat juuri näitä, joilla on tämä rotuoppi ylemmyyden tunne, varmasti kasvatettu kotona tuntemaan ylemmyyttä että ovat herrakansaa. Suomalaisten vanhempien on korkea aika valistaa omia lapsiaan rasismin vaaroista.

  29. D4R

    Mark: Hannu, I think you really miss the point that D4R was making and succeed only in painting yourself as a racist. The point is that the vast vast majority of Somalis living in Finland are law abiding, and they WOULD describe themselves as harmless. Not only that, but it really is completely unfair that they are somehow regarded, like you seem to make out, as being an automatic threat to society. It would be like me saying you must be a kiddy fiddler, because look at those high profile cases of Finnish going out to the Far East to indulge their pedophilia. Why should you be made responsible in any way for the actions of other Finns. When it comes to actions, we stand as individuals.

    No one Somali is responsible or should carry the stigma of the actions of another in exactly the same way that no one Finn is responsible or should carry the stigma of the actions of another Finn. To claim anything else really begins to undermine our individual freedoms.

    Not only that, but it’s just plain stupid and insane to try to denigrate a whole nationality on the basis of the actions of individuals. If 50% of Finns were criminal, it still would not be fair or right to blame the other 50%. The percentages don’t mean anything in terms of individual rights.

    But you don’t listen to single thing that’s said to you on here, Hannu, no matter how sincerely it is said or how clearly. You are deep in your prejudice, and this is just a place to advertise the fact.

    Thank you Mark. The point i was making.

  30. D4R

    Mark: Hannu…..! What kind of question is that? This is insane! Your talk is insane. Do you honestly believe that anyone on this blog believes that it is right to beat or kill a relative who doesn’t act the way you want? How can you ask that kind of question? What kind of monsters do you think we are?

    LOL

  31. Asian (Realy I am Chinese so I know my own reality)

    http://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/10/31/colour-blind-racism-the-four-frames/

    Te jotka ette ymmärtäneet miksi sanoin maahanmuutto keskustelun olevan värisokean rasismin ruumiillistuma.

    Ehkä auttaa jos selvennän. Värisokea rasismi on liberalistien rasismia. Sellaisia ihmisiä jotka käyvät monikulttuurisuus juhlissa, äänestävät värillisiä ehdokkaita ja tykkäävät auttaa vähäosaisia. Värisokean rasismin ytimenä on aina oletus että värilliset ovat joko kulttuurillisesti tai biologisesti vahingoittuneita. Joten on hyvän valkoisen liberaalin tehtävä auttaa “vähempiä” nousemaan koska valkoiset ovat “ylempiä”. Kuinka moni on kuullus valkoisen miehen taakka teoria. Värisokea rasismi on vain päivitetympää versiota.

    Värisokeat rasistit uskovat vain kongreettiseen rasismiin. Siis jos Skinhead hakkaa mustaa niin se on rasismia, mutta jos mustan pitää olla kolme kertaa parempi kuin valkoinen saadakseen työpaikan niin se ei ole rasismia. Hyvä tapa testata oletka värisokea rasisti on kysyä utkosko rakentelliseen rasismiin.

    Koska kongreettiset asiat ovat vain rasismia, joten rasismia pitää peitää neutraalien termien taakse. Näitä termejä on maahanmuutto, sosiaalipummi, pakolaiset, islam, kulttuuri ja listaa voi jatkaa loputtomia. Varmaan kaikki osaavat rivienvälistä lukemisem taitoa. Sillä tavalla löytää värikosean rasismin. Pitää katsoa mistä nyt oikeasti puhutaan.

  32. justicedemon

    Asian

    Esimerkki rasismin ilmenemistavasta Suomessa:

    Potilas käy terveyskeskuksessa ihottuman takia. Päivystävä lääkäri ei pysty sanomaan, että kyseessä on Henoch-Schonlein purpura, joten potilas joutuu ehdottamaan lääkärille tämän taudinmäärityksen ja kiinnittämään lääkärin huomiota mm. potilaan löytämään yleisverkossa olevaan kuvaan, joka selvästi muistuttaa potilaan tilaa. Tämän jälkeen lääkäri antaa potilaalle lähetteen ihotautisairaalaan. Lähetteessä lukee “epäilty Henoch-Schonlein purpura”.

    Jos terveyskeskuslääkäri on maahanmuuttaja, niin potilas kokee, että lääkäri ei ollut pätevä/virkansa tasoinen (kenties välelääkäri) ja on siirtänyt asian muun lääkärin hoidettavaksi.

    Jos terveyskeskuslääkäri on sen sijaan suomalainen, niin potilas kokee, että Henoch-Schonlein purpura on harvinainen sairaus, josta terveyskeskuksessa päivystävän yleislääkärin ei voida olettaa tietävän.

    Potilas ei pidä itseään miltään osin rasistina.

    Tämä kiinankielinen linkki saattaa kiinnostaa sinua.

  33. Asian (Realy I am Chinese so I know my own reality)

    Ei mitään uutta tossa. On ihan luonollista uskoa noin ja luula, että ei ole rasisti, koska media ruokkii koko ajan juuri tuota kuvaa asiasta. Valkoinen iho on ammitalaisuuden merkki. Tuollainen ajattelu tapa koskettaa ihan kaikkia. Myös värillisiä ja se luo alemmuuden tunnetta joka lamaannuttaa. Mitä nyt värillinen voisi tehdä tai tietää verrattuna valkoiseen

  34. justicedemon

    The example that I just gave concerns selective explanation. This is very closely related to the selective perception questions examined in the link on the psychology of prejudice, and relates to a certain universal tendency to explain our experiences in terms of our prejudices, and correspondingly to explain away any counterexamples.

    How do we explain why a bus driver takes a wrong turning? If the bus driver is a white Finnish male, then we are likely to say that he must have been driving a different route recently that takes this particular turn and the error was due to force of habit. Or perhaps we will surmise that the driver is new to this particular bus route. What we specifically don’t say is that he made the error because he is Finnish or male. By contrast the errors of immigrant bus drivers tend to be ascribed to their origins, skin colour etc., and even in Finland we still sometimes hear the errors of women drivers ascribed to factors like PMS.

    Similarly white recidivists are never analysed in terms of their skin colour. Instead, we tend to look for factors such as childhood trauma or physiological imbalance. By contrast, the behaviour of black recidivists is nearly always perceived in terms of skin colour.

  35. Hannu

    “Why should you be made responsible in any way for the actions of other Finns. ”

    So why finns are responsible of doings of man who should have been in jail? Look what Enrique writes.

    “Do you honestly believe that anyone on this blog believes that it is right to beat or kill a relative who doesn’t act the way you want?”

    No, but i know cultures where its not only preferred but obligied or you are outcast if you dont do it. It was all about differences on cultures what enrique denies. Well enrique supports mutilation of childrens so that wasnt suprise.

    d4r minut on pysäytetty sen miljoona kertaa ja minua on seurattu kaupoissa ja minä olen ollut syyttömänä putkassa ja kaikki sen vuoksi että minun näköiset ja ikäiset nyt vaan ovat reippaasti yliedustettuina rikostilastoissa. Toki ero meissä on se että minä voin kampauksella ja vaatteilla muuttaa tuon mutta muuten sama.

    Hippiletin takia olen saanut turpaani ja samoten kaljun takia, en ala sen takia vaihtamaan mikä minä olen.

    And again i never said all somalis are criminals, i said they arent harmless. If i want to be mean ill show financial burden… Crime rates amongst somalis are way higher than finns, you can do your own balanced stats and prove me wrong.

    • Migrant Tales

      Hannu, do you have any idea what is racism? This thread shows that you are still kind of lost.

  36. Hannu

    About trust on police, how i should have reacted when two polices stopped me in here.
    One was obviously from somewhere from savo and other was from “unclear, not local” but had russian name.
    Should i demand local polices and not trust them?
    Should there be quotas for local polices?
    I, by experience, know that one with russian name speaks russian, should i disregard him and ask local cop? What about police from savo? hes not local!

    “yhyy! i cant trust them!”

  37. Alan Bruce

    I have been reading these posts with some interest. The question of police services in European countries actually taking a leadership role in opening themselves to increased internal diversity is a major strategic policy focus in promoting human rights, visible affirmation of security and protection for vulnerable groups and a clear indication of heightened professionalism. For far too long many police services have been reactive and cut off from the needs of all they are supposed to serve – through inertia, sloppy standards, poor levels of training or (as in the stated findings of the Laurence Commission in London) sheer “institutional racism”. Tackling these problems by a radical program of training, policy and pro-active engagement with (and support for) immigrant communities, ethnic minorities, migrants, women and other minorities is not just protecting the rights of citizens (and non-citizens) but it is also about creating a professional police service that sets standards and proclaims values. This is not just a dream. It is a stated policy objective of the initiatives and programs being undertaken by CEPOL and the Fundamental Human Rights Observatory.

    The way this discussion here has developed is scary. I find it hard to see such written evidence of contempt, ignorance and naked racism. Blaming the immigrants for crime is like blaming the poor for their poverty. The logic of such hate speech is a policy of expulsion, victimization, internment, harassment and threat. If not worse. This serves no interest. This produces no social benefit. It creates fear and loathing and, in the end, everyone suffers. Everyone. The filthy logic of racism is that it starts small (we are “only” talking about Somalis….) but gradually expands to trap other groups in a web of lies, distortions and vendettas. Finland’s problems with crime (domestic, alcohol related, violence, deviance) long predate any immigrants arriving.

    Finland’s police should therefore be in the forefront of change and diversity and promotion of innovation in relation to equality, rights and the pro-active support of immigrants and minorities. There is evidence that, in fact, Finland is not in the forefront at European level. In Ireland both police services (An Garda Siochana and the PSNI) have undertaken joint police training on equality and diversity. They have engaged in imaginative and supportive ways with minority communities. In the case of the Garda, an extraordinary initiative around ethnic minority recruitment has resulted in the police service having the highest relative proportion of immigrant community representation in Europe. Officers come from over 45 different nationalities (the largest is Chinese). Recruitment, training, in-service training, language competence levels, promotion and policy have been radically overhauled (even food in the police training college). And central to this has also been gender equality. Irish policing has set a benchmark for Europe on diversity and policing – and this is recognized by CEPOL. There is even a Garda National Diversity Strategy Board. As a result racism is something that is tackled, not excused. Garda information stands and advice centers are established in mosques. Results? The highest levels of immigrant satisfaction with policing in Europe.

    Why is Finland not copying this success story? Oh yes, another point…. Ireland is the only country in Europe without an organized anti-immigrant political party. Are some individuals racist in Ireland? Sure. But they are recognized for the sick and sad folk they are – the real threats to security, as Breivik and his ilk have demonstrated.

    Imagine… a police service that celebrates and supports diversity. And enforces minority rights. Imagine…

    • Migrant Tales

      Alan, this same blog entry was on My Finland is International. Those who want the Finnish police to change and evidently feel threatened by immigrants, have gone as far as to accuse me of racism.

      No matter what they think, diversity is here and the Finnish police is seriously thinking about diversifying the police force. That will certainly happen in this decade.

      Thank you for setting the record straight!

  38. Hannu

    Alan bruce, so you want different rules to different races. Isnt that racism? I want polices who are professionals and when i see that someone can go with less my trust on them will be less.
    I want that everyone is on same standing point and do same tests and by their own skills manage what is wanted, i want to trust that everyone who manages official force are selected by their skills and not their race.

  39. Alan Bruce

    Hannu, you need to concentrate on what is being said. You need to listen. Above all, you need to think for yourself. At NO point did I mention different ‘rules’ for different “races”. By the way, there is only one “race”. It is called the Human Race.

    Since I am centrally involved in some of these things I at least know what I am talking about. We do use the same tests. The same standards. The same expectations. The same skills. Only better. Because we also apply them to all people equally.

    We have actually made policing more professional. More effective. More trusted. By locals, immigrants and even by police. And we have the statistics to prove it.

    Police do not belong to you. Or only whites. Or PS. Or lumberjacks with strange dreams at night. They belong to everybody. That includes blacks, women, gays, immigrants, Russian tourists, children, Somali pizza eaters.

    Do you still not get it Hannu? Everybody means… everybody.

    That is real professionalism.

  40. justicedemon

    Alan

    Pearls before swine, mate. The trolls on here won’t even begin to understand what you just wrote. We are dealing with an epähikke demographic. Most of the debate in here resembles set-tos between Alf Garnett and his future son-in-law in Johnny Speight sitcoms from the late 1960s.

  41. Asian (Realy I am Chinese so I know my own reality)

    justicedemon, Olet kyllä täysin oikeassa jos alamme kattoa asiaa laajemmalta perpektiiviltä. Me yleistämme asioita jos toimia ei ole hallitseva yhteiskunnassa. Miehet asettavat nais tittelin etu sijalle kun puhutaan heidän tekemistä ongelmista vaikka sillä ei olisis mitään merkitystä. Ja asiaa voi jatkaa kaikkialle yhteiskuntaan. Itse tartuin vain yhteen osaan asiasta. Varmaan haluat muistuttaa asian mukkaisuudesta

  42. eyeopener

    Hi Alan Bruce.

    Welcome to the discussion.

    I have been one of the participants who have accused the local police of selective attention to racial attacks. And therefore sending a signal of “acceptable offenses”. Your reflection on the Laurence Commission is correct but come after the 1993 murder and only just recently conviction of two of the five suspects. The Commission had hardly another choice than to admit “institutional racism”.

    But such an admittance doesn’t take away the “ingrained mentality” of the Police Force AT LARGE.

    My background is Criminal Law and Criminology. Quite familiar with sociology, psychology, statistics etc.

    Why Finnish Police doesn’t have an open policy towards these issues? Probably it’s a rather new phenomenon inFinland. Maybe the Police education was (is)not prepared for these developments. Sad but obviously there are no futurists in the Management nor in the National Government.

    The Human Race as you mentioned is also here divided in subsections (see some threads here). Your suggestion of co-training with other police-officers looks like a good idea. Maybe not yet for Finland. Too “in-crowded” I would say.

    A start is made because you have brought up a different appraoch to the role of the Police Force as -at least in my opinion- society has a right to have. For everybody!!

    Now we still have to wait for the judiciary and the politicians to take a firm stand and made the law applicable for EVERYBODY when doing wrong.

    Good star t:-)

  43. Seppo

    “change the law in order to recruit more non-white Finns to the force”

    Which law should be changed and how?

    Correct me if I’m wrong but I think there is no law that says anything about the skin color of the policemen.

    But if the so-called visible minorities really are under-represented in the police forces than maybe this could be a case for positive discrimination? Although I believe it would be quite hard to realize and would face furious opposition from many sides.

    First of all, who would be entitled to this positive discrimination? How to measure non-whiteness? I’m being serious – how to measure that?

    I think what would help is some sort of campaign from the police forces in neighborhoods with a lot of youngsters with immigrant background. The police could visit the schools and tell about their profession and how to apply to the police school. They could mention that they look forward to getting applicants with different backgrounds. I think that would already do a lot.

    P.S. I have read what some people posted on color-blind racism, and I mostly agree, but I do not think it is a good idea to start labeling the population on ethno-racial terms. I don’t think it is smart to force this American style racial identity on people any more than is already done. That will only contribute to segregation.

    • Alan Bruce

      I think this is a constructive comment. Once again, this should not be about token “political correctness”. Rather it should be about pro-active professionalism. The task is to make policing attractive, socially useful and innovative – for all citizens. This means being pro-active in engaging with, encountering, and recruiting from all sectors of the community.

      By the way a small linguistic point. Most people still refer to police “forces”. I think it is useful to start envisaging these as police “services”. Moving from “force” to “service” sends a powerful message to all citizens about impartiality, rights and justice.

  44. eyeopener

    Did some marketing courses, Alan B.?? :-).

    However, customer orientation demands a shift in the organizational culture as being a “servant”. For a lot of policemen this change might be a bridge too far!!

    Nevertheless, I think that you have an excellent point. Let it start at the police schools/academies. Good luck for the UK. Here we might have to wait a little longer.

    • Alan Bruce

      No marketing expertise I am afraid… just professional standards. And they work!

      And I am not in the UK. They have many other issues.

      I am in a small peripheral country, formerly colonized and with a profound legacy of racism, civil violence and sectarian division. We have achieved this through innovation and creative responsiveness – where police are expected to serve the community and not the other way around. Maybe you can identify another small peripheral European country with a tradition of innovation that could do the same?? 🙂

  45. Mark

    Hannu

    And again i never said all somalis are criminals, i said they arent harmless.

    Well, some of them are. You have to change the way you talk about them, as a single group, denying that they are composed of individuals. So, yes, ‘they are harmless’ has meaning for most of the people with Somali origin, and they would be rightly frustrated that you try to paint them with the brush of other individuals from Somalia. I really don’t get why you don’t seem to acknowledge this. Half the stupid arguments you are having with people on this blog would no longer happen if you just accepted that, and treated people as individuals, which is their right and is just common sense.

  46. Mark

    JD

    Most of the debate in here resembles set-tos between Alf Garnett and his future son-in-law in Johnny Speight sitcoms from the late 1960s.

    That’s got to be the laugh of the day! 😀

  47. eyeopener

    You could try the Netherlands.

    However, lately not exactly the place to find such social innovations 🙂 In Europe we are at a loss as well -small or big-. So I am not blaming nobody.

    Just wondering whereto this human respect and dignity has disappeared.

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