Migrant Tales’ style guide

by , under All categories, Enrique

In order to encourage others to take part in a constructive debate on this blog, the following guidelines will be enforced:

1. Racist comment that labels whole groups and enforces stereotypes. This also includes xenophobic, sexist and homophobic comment. If you would never say it in public don’t say it on Migrant Tales!
2. Comment that is likely to offend and encourage violence towards ethnic and national groups.
3. Very important: defamatory or libelous comments.
4. Foul or profane language.

    • Enrique

      Thank you Zuzeeko. You should know that the inspiration for these rules were from your blog, On the Road to Success. Thank you!

  1. William O'Gorman

    “Splitters….!!”

    But seriously…good stuff. I hope that this blog and its contents can be used as a source of information in the run up to the elections.
    Thanks all!

    • Enrique

      Hi William, thank you for your support! You opinion on the matter was important.

  2. Tony Garcia

    Enrique, why do you allow comment that is likely to offend and encourage violence when it’s not towards an ethnic and national groups?

    William, this blog has been an invaluable source of information. It is being used almost on a daily basis.

    • Enrique

      –Enrique, why do you allow comment that is likely to offend and encourage violence when it’s not towards an ethnic and national groups?

      Tony, that means groups and individuals.

  3. Tony Garcia

    Please just let me understand this, offensive comments towards ANY particularly group or individual won’t be allowed here, is that right?

  4. Tony Garcia

    “If you would never say it in public don’t say it on Migrant Tales! ”

    Is that why you never wrote here that Muslins should accept that Muslims and Jews are equal?

  5. xyz

    “The two religions share similar values, guidelines, and principles. Islam also incorporates Jewish history as a part of its own. ”

    “Because Islam has its foundation in Judaism and they share a common origin in the Middle East through Abraham, both are considered Abrahamic religions. There are many shared aspects between Judaism and Islam; Islam was strongly influenced by Judaism in its fundamental religious outlook, structure, jurisprudence and practice.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_Judaism

  6. Tony Garcia

    Enrique, no one can deny that you have solved a big problem. One of the main discussions I have seen in this blog is about the miserable failure of Africans in general and Somalis in particularly in Finland. You point has always been very simple – “it happens because Finland is racist”.

    Every time you brought this here we first have the herd effect – your follows coming after saying “of course- there is no evidence to the contrary”. However twice I brought here evidence to the contrary – studies by US census and university in Sweden showing that they also fail miserable in the US, UK, Sweden and other places.

    We know this is offensive to you, and once the truth is not part of Migrants Tales Censorship Code, my post will be in violation of such law, been legible to be removed.

    All of a sudden, the discussion about why Africans in general and Somalis in particularly fails miserable in Finland is sorted. We have your article telling us that all Finns fault and followed by the herd, but very importantly, not any evidence to the contrary.

    Problem solved. Case closed. Well done.

    • Enrique

      –You point has always been very simple – “it happens because Finland is racist”.

      Tony, I really think your views on racism (what it is and how we should react to it) and how certain groups impair your ability to grasp cultural diversity. You seem to forget that we are a culturally diverse society in Europe. You have to deal with challenges effectively. I consider racism a hostile act and take it seriously. Why? Because I grew up in a society that was in the racist big leagues. People got murdered, assassinated or lynched because of their background. People who think it is ok to bash other groups even “innocently” are playing with fire. What kind of a country would we be if xenophobia and racism overcame us? Apart from our social decay the first to feel it would be our pocket.

      If you work for a multinational company you know well what is appropriate and what is not. If you don’t this blog could help you at least how to relate to other groups and build meaningful relations.

  7. JusticeDemon

    lol@the TobyJug

    You’re obviously not bright enough to understand the idea of a self-fulfilling prophecy, but answer this one if you can:

    Will your remark about Somalis make it easier or more difficult for them to succeed?

    Now tell us how you have adjusted your assessment to allow for the effect of expressing it.

    Do you think your job prospects would be affected if everyone in Finland was convinced that Brazilians could only succeed wherever they go by destroying forested environments and hugely increasing social inequality? Even a brief acquaintance with Brazil shows that there is overwhelmingly strong evidence for this.

    Expectation and performance are linked. You are just too thick and prejudiced to see it.

    • Enrique

      –Will your remark about Somalis make it easier or more difficult for them to succeed?

      JusticeDemon, I believe this is an excellente question. What is Tony’s end-game? Where are all these comments against certain groups supposed to take us? Lynching mobs? Exclusion? Ethnicentric behavior? That is the question you will never get a proper answer from the True Finns and their merry gang of bigots. Some of them are so lost in their hatred that they can’t even see their racism.

  8. Tony Garcia

    Enrique, the problem is not how you see racism but how much you claim it exist. The reason for Somalis to fail in Finland is not racism but their own inability to prevail, the same reason make them fail in other countries like US.

    My end-game? Well I can ask you the same question. When you insist on point the wrong reasons I can only wonder if your intention is really solve the problem or only use it as an excuse to bash the Finns?

    “…the True Finns and their merry gang of bigots.”

    Doesn’t this break the Migrant Tales Censorship Code article 2?

    • Enrique

      –The reason for Somalis to fail in Finland is not racism but their own inability to prevail, the same reason make them fail in other countries like US.

      It is wrong what you say. Seventy percent of the first group of Somalis that came to Finland in the early 1990s have been employed. But use your logic for a moment: If your distrust is so strong against a group how do you expect them to succeed? What you are hoping is that they fail.

      The type of society I would like to see in Finland is by following and enforcing our values that are enshrined in our Constitution and laws. Nowhere in Finnish laws is racism and exclusion permitted.

      I believe sincerely that the political agenda of the True Finns and especially of the Nuiva wing is based on bigotry and racism. It is an excluisionist view of society. Such a stance is foreign to our ideals.

  9. Tony Garcia

    “It is wrong what you say.”

    Really? So the tell us then, why aren’t they succeeding elsewhere? Why are they doing so bad in the US for example?

    “Nowhere in Finnish laws is racism and exclusion permitted.”

    And it shouldn’t be, but the real size of it is a fraction that what you claim.

    “I believe sincerely that the political agenda of the True Finns and especially of the Nuiva wing is based on bigotry and racism.”

    And I believe this brake the Migrants Tales Censorship Code Article 2 (offensive comment towards a group).

    • Enrique

      –Really? So the tell us then, why aren’t they succeeding elsewhere? Why are they doing so bad in the US for example?

      You are stating this. It is your opinion.

      ONe matter that I consider incredible is how some comments get distorted. If I point out that unemployment is high among some groups, it does not mean that they are failures. What any sensible person would be saying is what are the factors behind these issues and how can we correct them. By labelling and slamming a group that they are “failures” is a lazy way of looking at the issues.

    • Enrique

      And I believe this brake the Migrants Tales Censorship Code Article 2 (offensive comment towards a group).

      Tony, do you speak in this fashion in public? Do you go around with a mask and a pseudonym? Do you mentioned these views you have of certain religious groups at your workplace, when friends come over etc? Or do you only do it here or when you meet people who likewise hide from public view?

  10. JusticeDemon

    Sometimes it’s dangerous to lol@Tony the Toby

    The reason for Somalis to fail in Finland is not racism but their own inability to prevail, the same reason make them fail in other countries like US.

    THIS is racism.

    We can laugh at Tony the TobyJug for being too dense to appreciate the concept of a self-fulfilling prophecy or the effects of expectations on actual and perceived outcomes, but that should not stop us from pointing out that these are ridiculous ideas that the TobyJug expresses only because he comes from a privileged background in which such ideas are not challenged because they offset the guilt associated with huge differences in wealth and opportunity.

    In other words, racism is a mental illness that enables wealthy Brazilians to get on with their lives despite the surrounding squalor, much as sickle cell anaemia enables people to live some sort of debilitated life in parts of the world where malaria is endemic.

    Tony the Toby is of Italian extraction through the male lineage, but it doesn’t occur to him that he could well have a Spanish surname now because one of his ancestors grew tired of the obstacles caused by association with the mafia. The experience of Italian Americans is is a clear example of how social expectations affect outcomes, but Tony the Toby has failed to learn anything from this obvious feature of his own background.

  11. Tony Garcia

    “What any sensible person would be saying is what are the factors behind these issues and how can we correct them. “

    That’s my whole point here, you always blame Finnish racism for their unemployment, what is not only untrue but highly offensive. Do you want to correct the factors behind these issues? So, start to talk about what is really causing it and stop blaming the Finns for it.

    “Do you mentioned these views you have of certain religious groups at your workplace”

    Yes, and, compared to others, my views are quite mild.

    “when friends “

    Absolutely.

    But what this got to do with the point? The article 2 of the Code says (according to the explanation given here http://nemoo.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/migrant-tales-style-guide/#comment-13408) forbids offensive comments towards a group, what you wrote about the True Finns is highly offensive, therefore it breaks the code.

    • Enrique

      –That’s my whole point here, you always blame Finnish racism for their unemployment. “Freedom of speech — but not for all

      I never said that racism is ALWAYS the problem. It is a factor that must be taken into account.

      When you speak of freedom of speech, I am a bit in the dark why you think it is important to go around insulting other groups. What is it that you want to gain with this. How does it help the situation and promote good ethnic relations?

  12. JusticeDemon

    lol@Tony the TobyJug

    I bet Ricky is really worried that PS will report this to the police as incitement against a population group.

    And are you offended as an ethnic or religious minority, Mr Soini?

    Honestly, Toby, you are so thick it’s painful to read your remarks sometimes. 🙂

  13. Tony Garcia

    Enrique, It’s not the first time the Ian O’Doherty writes something especially for you. He really loves your blog…

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/ian-odoherty-the-best-teacher-in-the-world-2507992.html

    “Freedom of speech — but not for all

    The banning of wannabe Koran burner Pastor Terry Jones (insert your own Monty Python gag here) from Britain has proved one thing — the Tories are just as bad as the cowards in Labour.

    So, it also begs the question — if they refuse to allow Jones in on the grounds that he is a hate monger, will they deport the scum who burned the Poppy on Remembrance Day?

    Chance would be a fine thing. “

  14. JusticeDemon

    lol @ Tony da Toby

    That’s rich coming from someone who tells us that sovereign States are entitled to decide who may enter their territories.

    But consistency has never been your strong suit, has it?

    I suppose you would stand cheering on the sidelines as our boys march off to kill your relatives abroad. This is your much-vaunted ideal of assimilation: wearing your dead baby with pride.

    Pass the sick bag.

  15. Tony Garcia

    Well, once every time you talk about Somali unemployment you mention racism but never the other factors, one can only conclude the either you don’t believe/know about those other factors or you are just using this to bash Finns.

    I’ll be waiting you next article about Somali unemployment in Finland witch will only talk about those other factors, alright?

    But you could tell us how be completely one sided, utterly unfair to Finns blaming them for what is not their fault or insult a legally established Finnish political party will help good ethnic relations?

  16. Klay_Immigrant

    Tony, Enrique and co. are completely correct that Finland should not be on a heightened alert over a terrorist attack because it would insult minorities and the religion who would obviously be offended. Hurting a minority group of people’s feelings is more important than the loss of life. Tell that to the people of Moscow just now.

    ‘Moscow’s Domodedovo airport – the busiest in the Russian capital – has been rocked by an explosion that has reportedly killed at least 23 people. Russia’s chief investigator said the explosion was the work of terrorists.’

    Which capital city is next Helsinki? But even if that happens I’m sure they will find a way to justify it as Finnish people’s fault.

    ‘Domodedovo blast: Explosion rocks Moscow’s main airport’

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12268662

  17. Tony Garcia

    Hi Klay, good hear from you.

    Oh well, and yet we should believe that Moscow is concerned with the True Finns, and they are the real threat to Finland’s national security.

  18. Klay_Immigrant

    Ha Tony, your completely correct, the ordinary man in the street should be more worried about nationalistic parties blowing him and his family to bits and not people of a particular religion (no names being mentioned ofcourse).

  19. Tony Garcia

    Klay please mind that we now have a censorship code and offensive comments will be removed. Of course not if towards Finns, Christians, conservatives or assimilated immigrants, those you can offend as much as you want.

    • Enrique

      You haven’t answered my question: When you speak of freedom of speech, I am a bit in the dark why you think it is important to go around insulting other groups. What is it that you want to gain with this. How does it help the situation and promote good ethnic relations?

  20. Enrique

    Klay, does anyone going calling you a Stalin on this blog? You are young and use the term because you don’t have the faintest idea what is means to live in a dictatorship. In my opinion, for you to do that here is an insult. Maybe living in a country like Myanmar would teach you a few things about life. Instead of throwing punches against shadows argue with issues.

  21. JusticeDemon

    Klay

    You need a geography lesson. Why are you talking about Tallinn in this connection?

    Helsinki is also closer to Minsk, Oslo, Riga, Stockholm and Vilnius than to Moscow.

    And a history lesson. The last terrorist attack in Finland was perpetrated by homegrown neofascists:

    http://www.uusisuomi.fi/kotimaa/98513-pride-isku-kytkentoja-aarioikeistolaisiin-ryhmiin

    Bobrikov was assassinated in Helsinki by a Finnish right wing nationalist.

    Now give us a historical example of a terrorist attack in Finland by an immigrant.

    Or stick to chemistry and leave these discussions to those of us with a clue.

  22. Klay_Immigrant

    Are we supposed to pretend against mounting evidence that certain groups do not bring more problems than others. Are you telling that every single group of people are exactly the same when it comes to unemployment, crime and education? And if you point out the differences with statistics that you are somehow insulting them when you are just merely stating the facts.

    • Enrique

      Klay, you have to separate personal attacks against me and groups from arguing with crediblity. The last thing you are going to do on this blog is insult me and try to whine “freedom of speech.” I have lived under a dictatorship when I was young and I know exactly what it means to live in a gulag, or centro de detención as they called them in the dirty war days of Argentina.

  23. JusticeDemon

    Klay

    That is elitist claptrap and you know it.

    Don’t they teach statistical methodology as part of a core sciences programme nowadays? Were you absent for that course?

  24. Tony Garcia

    I don’t think insults helps anything and I don’t think anyone should be going around insulting anyone, that’s why I don’t do it. Instead we should be looking for the real factors behind problems without fear that talking about it may offend some groups. Unfortunately, in many cases, truth is offensive.

    There is a difference, my friend, between an insult and an fact that may offend.

    Now you answer mine: Why do you think be one sided and unfair to Finns blaming them for what they are not doing will help promote good ethic relations?

  25. JusticeDemon

    lol @ Tony the Toby

    I don’t think insults helps anything and I don’t think anyone should be going around insulting anyone, that’s why I don’t do it.

    So accusing the President of the Finnish Somali League of a specific criminal offence with no evidence wasn’t insulting anyone?

    What a mimophant!

    • Enrique

      –Why do you think be one sided and unfair to Finns blaming them for what they are not doing will help promote good ethic relations?

      When there are problems in society isn’t the most normal thing to draw attention to them? Probably some are not aware of them.

  26. Tony Garcia

    “When there are problems in society isn’t the most normal thing to draw attention to them? Probably some are not aware of them.”

    And your way of doing this is by being one sided blaming Finns for what they are not doing?

    • Enrique

      So, Tony, exercising one’s right to debate is in your opinion mere “blaming.” Hmmmm. Here is an interesting document what hate speech is. Click here. Even though it it difficult to draw lines there are certain paramaters that separate hate speech and freedom of speech. In the United States, for example, if your hate speech incites violence that does not fall under “freedom of expression.”

      Could you please tell us what good do people like the True Finns’ Nuiva wing bring to good ethnic relations in Finland? I am in the dark about this. Please enlighten us.

  27. JusticeDemon

    lol @ Tony the Toby

    It will be amusing to see the long-term outcome of your adaptation to Finland. Over 80 per cent of Finnish employees belong to trade unions. A clear majority are willing to pay even higher taxes in order to prevent cuts in public services. The system of government involves substantial income transfers to prevent unacceptable differentials in wealth and income. There are very few private schools and those that exist are no better than the publicly funded schools in one of the world’s most egalitarian systems of public education. Latin machismo attitudes are severely frowned upon.

    My prediction is that socially you will end up as the dependent pet of your Finnish family members and acquaintances (at least until the novelty wears off), and God help you if the bottom falls out of the new economy, because you will be the first out of the door. Of course you can always scamper off back where you came from, but don’t expect your family to follow.

    Sad case, really. 🙁

    But it couldn’t happen to a nicer fellow. 🙂

  28. JusticeDemon

    Ricky

    That reference is a useful crib sheet for the intelligent reader, but it will go way over the head of the TobyJug.

    The Norwood judgement issued by ECtHR on 16 November 2004 was quite clear and to the point.

    Offences of this kind are covered by section 10 of chapter 11 of the Finnish Penal Code. They are sufficiently serious to justify expulsion of a third-country national.

  29. Tony Garcia

    First no one here is inciting violence. Second, interesting to see that you don’t blame Finns for Somali’s failure but “debate” the problem. Enrique, honestly, who are trying to fool here? But, as I said before, if thinking in this way makes you sleep better…

    • Enrique

      In a Western society we debate matters. We don’t slam others who you may disagree with. That’s the Latin American way, which has changed radically from the past. Many times your arguments and how you believe matters should be discussed bring me back to the dictatorship in Argentina. Many of the same argument used by people then you are using now.

  30. Tony Garcia

    Once you don’t blame the Finns but debate the problem let me tell you again…

    “I’ll be waiting you next article about Somali unemployment in Finland witch will only talk about those other factors, alright?”

  31. Tony Garcia

    Agree with you 100%. Stop doing it to the Finns in general and True Finns in particularly, deal?

    Is your article about the other factors ready yet?

  32. JusticeDemon

    lol@Tony the TobyJug

    Which side did your family support when the democratically elected government of President João Goulart was ousted by the Brazilian military?

    We all know, but you are afraid to say it.

    Pass the sick bag.

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