Migrant Tales Literary: Helloless culture

by , under Dana

By Dana

Hello!Well yes, hello! Hello! Let me tell you about a helloless culture.What is wrong with greeting people anyway?In Finland saying hello seems very difficult. It looks like they’re afraid to say hello even if u told them hello over and over again…and i’m wondering how many times i have to take the initiative and say good morning and greet people in this way.

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If i don’t say anything i won’t hear a response, hmmm what a beautiful culture! Oh hello! A greeting and a hi are a way to be friendly to others but here everything is extremely cold and unfriendly. Why? Sure, you and I don’t know it, only they know it and they claim it’s their culture – oh no that word again, culture!  

Culture is offers an easy answer to all my questions about the Finns and Finland. Oh and please don’t tell me it’s about being shy or shyness if u exclude me because it means ur not a shy people. So what do you think about greeting people with a hello? What about a course in learning how to say hello? Do u like the idea?

When u or your child visit a place u need to greet others with a hello, it’s important, it’s like telling the other person not to be afraid of you because you’re a friend. How can a child stay silent in such a situation? No respect for adults? Teach them respect, then they won’t leave u in a home for the elderly when u r old and they’ll care for u when you’re old.

Adults should believe that a good way of being friendly begins with a small and humble hi. What should I think of you if I am a foreigner in this helloless culture? Hello ensures peace between people so what’s wrong with saying hello?

Don’t forget to say hello. I won’t abandon my hellos and greetings even if you have…. hellooooooo anyway!

  1. Joonas

    I would not say it is “extremely cold and unfriendly”, but I do see your point. Greetings are more rare in capital area than in other places in Finland from my experience. I’m not originally from Helsinki which probably explains why I greet the bus driver and my co-workers in the morning. Sometimes there might not be an answer or I might get a nob or grunt, but I wouldn’t take it personally. However, I do not greet the other people in the office who I do not know or work with.

  2. Yossie

    You really cant expect people to behave here exactly the same way they do back in your own country.

    What is “extremely cold and unfriendly” is extremely cultural relative thing. Even locally too. for example, Where I currently live, it is very common to thank the bus driver when you get off. Where I grew up this was totally unheard off.

    It is very selfcentered to label people “extremely cold and unfriendly” because they dont follow your “code”, and even more arrogant to tell people they should behave how you want!

    • Brave

      Yossie ur still angry? And again angry?
      Angry at me? upset?
      Why u always get upset with me?
      I expect nothing from u and ur people, i expect nothing from no/one La la la la am free Yossie, free and successful i dont need ur acceptance.
      Oh i told that u will answer me its culture stuff cultural stuff huuum i made a miracle 🙂

      OOOPS now u label me with self/centered
      Arrogant
      So why u label me ? Because i dont follow ur code?
      Self/centered… sure i have myself a center in me so i wont be your/centered oh arrogant thats okay with people like u …. now applause for me please if u can and if ur proudness is sleep.
      and i can tell Hello to u too
      Hello Yossie… hello icy man
      Hello u pride… u looks like a lad
      Dont get me bad… dont feel very sad
      Yes
      I can tell Hello to my enemies too

    • Yossie

      Dana

      Enrique and bunch tell us this blog is about tolerance and acceptance. Now, tell me how your post is about tolerance and acceptance when you and finns are different and you compare yourself with them with terms “here everything is extremely cold and unfriendly” and “i choose warmth not coldness” and “I am alive not dead so i am warm and friendly”.

      To me it looks like you are not in terms with how finns see friendliness. Where is your acceptance and tolerance?

    • Mark

      Yossie

      Now, tell me how your post is about tolerance and acceptance when you and finns are different and you compare yourself with them with terms

      So, you want us to promote tolerance by shutting Dana up and stopping her from telling her story about her experience in Finland? That’s your idea of tolerance?

      Actually, most Finns I come into contact with say hello fairly regularly – i.e. in my workplace. And by the way, greetings are a ‘cultural universal’, i.e. there is no culture on the planet that does not have rituals and signs for greetings, varying in formality and applied in all encounters. Clearly cities are more anonymous than towns, but in local areas/housing blocks, workplaces, then normal rules apply even in cities.

      Claiming it is culture that people in Finland don’t say hello to immigrants is false. It’s a lie. It’s a cover up. It’s bullshit. It’s blaming the foreigner for ‘not adapting’, when in fact, the ‘normal’ thing in Finland is that people do greet each other, especially when their face is familiar. AT THE VERY LEAST, if someone else says hi, then Finns WOULD say hello back!

      So stop bullshitting, Yossie, trying to claim that this rudeness to Dana is somehow a natural thing of being Finnish. Total, total crap, lying, bullshit! And I’ve lived in Finland for ten years and lived in several different places here. So don’t give me that crap!

    • Yossie

      Mark

      Greeatings vary based on local culture and per person. Do you think its fine that when some people dont fill Dana’s expectations, its alright for her to use rthetoric like “here everything is extremely cold and unfriendly” and “i choose warmth not coldness” and “I am alive not dead so i am warm and friendly”?

    • Mark

      Yossie

      Greeatings vary based on local culture and per person.

      What is this? You are saying Finns don’t nod, or smile, or acknowledge people as they pass them on the corridor, the neighbourhood, etc.? That’s not true. Finns are not known for not making normal greetings in keeping with customs throughout Europe and the Nordic countries.

      Do you think its fine that when some people dont fill Dana’s expectations,

      I think we all are surprised sometimes by someone who for some reason doesn’t seem to want to acknowledge our existence in a perfectly normal setting. It happens. The question very much is how often and how direct we are in making our own desire to pass on a greeting clear.

      “here everything is extremely cold and unfriendly”

      Dana has been in Finland for several years now, so if this is her conclusion, I think it’s based on not just one or two cases. I also wouldn’t call other people’s direct everyday experiences ‘rhetoric’. I’d call the kind of blanket denial and vague references to ‘culture’ as being the reason for this rudeness towards Dana as ‘rhetoric’.

      Perhaps you simply do not know what it feels like to be ‘invisible’ in a culture in the way that being a foreigner in a country that has an underlying hostility or suspicion towards outsiders can make you feel. Even without the hostility, being in a totally foreign country is an ‘invisible’ experience, but when people don’t react to even basic universal behaviour, that ‘non-status’ is further emphasised. You don’t want to know about this experience. You claim that Finns do not greet each other. That is total crap! And you are not even ‘owning’ your own statements. Is this your experience of Finland? People not responding to hellos or smiles?

      How long are you going to go on blaming Dana, complaining because she writes about her experience? What, may I ask, is wrong with wanting to ‘be alive’ and warm? In the one hand you complain that she describes Finns as cold and on the other, you are saying that this is your culture. I think you are full of shit on both counts and that you should just open your heart for just a second to try and see the human being that is in the middle of this experience being described instead of trying to put a veil of deceipt over her head and calling on us to shut her up!

  3. ALWILBGOOD

    Cant see anything unsual. Yesterday I was taking a walk alone in the evening and I met this lady who said hello I responded hello and then she continue with `”God bless you and your family”. Not an everyday salutation but wasnt surprised.
    I work in a big company and been working there for over ten years. I know almost every one. In a day I meet people who say hi and some who say nothing, some will respond when I say hi and some will not respond when I say hi. Some will say hi to you today, tomorrow they wont say hi and some will always say hi. Thats how the hello thing is make no beef about it and I have come to understand that it is not even important somtimes your hello can be a distraction. Life is very fragile and we’ve got to understand that wherever you go some will open the door for you and some will shut the door in your face.

  4. Brave

    Joonas,
    Hello or better to say hello Joonas
    Not a cold icy hello but a warm hello
    I am glad u get my point and u be gald too for i got ur point:)
    We have free will yes people can behave whatever they want but i choose warmth not coldness.
    I am alive not dead so i am warm and friendly.
    Wish u a warm life full of warm hellos

  5. Brave

    ALWILBGOOD,
    Hello and hello
    So yesterday was a lucky day for u…oh u got a hello thats unbelievable in here 🙂
    Hello thing is make no beef … no problem for me, i dont care about them any more but its not friendly, Hello is a start…how its come a life without a start, a work without a start??
    UR car wont start…. its a problem for u, is not it?
    Hello is a respect thing.
    No hello no trust
    But
    Have a fresh start day for always

  6. Joonas

    @Mark – Dana has been in Finland for several years now, so if this is her conclusion, I think it’s based on not just one or two cases.

    If a Finn has only bad experience minority group X, do you think the person is entitled to use offensive generalizations of this specific group? I thought MT was against this kind of thinking. I know Dana has some bad experience with Finns, but she is heading to bad path by using generalizations like that. I do not think you help her by defending/supporting her ideas.

    • Mark

      Joonas

      If a Finn has only bad experience minority group X, do you think the person is entitled to use offensive generalizations of this specific group?

      No I don’t. But face facts, Joonas, most of the people with the most offensive opinions about immigrants have had very little actual contact with them. Dana is talking about her contact with Finns. That’s real for her. I have said many times that she should not generalise. At the same time, I think it’s also clear that simply dismissing her experiences or her emotional reaction to them is not the answer at all.

      I know Dana has some bad experience with Finns, but she is heading to bad path by using generalizations like that.

      I don’t think we should generalise, period! It is important to stay open to seeing the good in people, especially when it comes to seeing Finland as a nation. I urge Dana to be careful in her writing. But I don’t think she should hide her experience in any way either, because I personally trust her sincerity. Most of us simply don’t live with that kind of prejudice and nor can we really understand how soul-destroying it can be.

      I do not think you help her by defending/supporting her ideas.

      It is possible to sympathise with someone’s experiences even if you don’t agree with the conclusions they draw from those experiences. At the end of the day, the question remains – why are people ignoring her or blanking her when she tries to greet them? Is she not allowed to have an honest emotional reaction to this? At what point is she supposed to say that actually her opinion of Finns is positive ‘in spite of’ having lots of negative experiences? At what point is she allowed to say that she thinks Finns are cold to her?

      I find it ironic as hell that people think Dana is being ‘racist’ or xenophobic for talking about her isolation and bad experiences and yet one of the common complaints about immigrants is that they want a special time in the swimming pool (Muslim women). That’s the scale here. Which suffering is worse, Joonas? Social isolation due to prejudice, or suffering the inconvenience of having to organise your swimming times around the swimming pools pre-arranged schedules? There is no balance in this conversation!

    • Brave

      Joonas i cant say more than this to u
      U dont know my experience u just think it was normal something happened to me and finish yes?
      No bad path in my life, no not at all, freedom of speech is not a bad path but a healthy thing.
      SO a fairy story is a good path yes?
      I can write fairy story but i wont write a fairy story about myself and a human.
      So tell me whats right in ur eyes that MT do about me?
      What u want they do about me?
      Do u want that MT close this door on me?
      Or what u wish?
      Why no/one say a thanks to MT? why???
      I present MT mods millions thanks.
      This site gave u guys freedom, u have a great time on here u can debate u can learn u can feel many things that ur not able to feel it in real life because there is no freedom of speech in real life so why no/one say a thanks to MT?
      But complain?
      U want wash my brain with ur manner and methods and if i dont listen u want kick me out of MT yes Joonas… but u CANT.
      And i wont kick u out ( i am not ur enemy, just a huamn like yours am not alien) ur free to show me ur real face …so go on
      GO ON
      and my pleasure

  7. Joonas

    Joonas

    But face facts, Joonas, most of the people with the most offensive opinions about immigrants have had very little actual contact with them. At the same time, I think it’s also clear that simply dismissing her experiences or her emotional reaction to them is not the answer at all.

    True, I agree with your first sentence. There are many people who have not even met the people they are “criticizing”. However, I do think Dana should have used “my co-workers” or something similar instead of “Finns” or “Finland, because now she is just generalizing quite big group of people.

    But I don’t think she should hide her experience in any way either, because I personally trust her sincerity. Most of us simply don’t live with that kind of prejudice and nor can we really understand how soul-destroying it can be.

    You make it sound like none of us have never lived abroad as a minority and faced prejudice. But yes, she is entitled to share her experience, but I would advice her to avoid generalizing any human groups.

    It is possible to sympathise with someone’s experiences even if you don’t agree with the conclusions they draw from those experiences. At the end of the day, the At what point is she allowed to say that she thinks Finns are cold to her?

    She can say her co-workers or the people she has met in Finland are “cold”, but I do not think it is reasonable to say “(all) Finns are cold”. She clearly has just not met the right Finns.

    one of the common complaints about immigrants is that they want a special time in the swimming pool (Muslim women). That’s the scale here. Which suffering is worse, Joonas? Social isolation due to prejudice, or suffering the inconvenience of having to organise your swimming times around the swimming pools pre-arranged schedules? There is no balance in this conversation!

    I still do not agree with the swimming pool for Muslim women or any other religion based privilege. Women’s turns should be enough for all women. But even saying that, of course social isolation due to prejudice is much worse than the Muslim women swimming turns. I just don’t think it helps any foreigner to integrate to this country or help with the social isolation, if they can’t even swim with the locals.

    • Mark

      Joonas

      You make it sound like none of us have never lived abroad as a minority and faced prejudice.

      Have you had a comparable experience?

  8. Joonas

    Have you had a comparable experience?

    I do travel quite actively and have lived a few years abroad, so you can guess it would be almost impossible not to experience some prejudice. There has been racist slurs on the streets, people being plain rude etc. Luckily there has never been anything more than verbal abuse, but even those I received a smile on my face and giving a wink to the person (it always confuses the people who makes them). However, I never generalized all the people who live in the country or their culture. I just find the people who accepted me as I am. You just need to be tough, persistent and not let every douche bring you down.

    Of course, my situation might have been little bit different, because I knew I won’t spent rest of my life in those places and will return to Finland sooner or later.

    • Brave

      Oh what kind of prejudice ?
      How u heal ur wounds?
      Oh they made u dizzy with wonder?
      They abused u?
      They made u to work for free for them?
      What kind of bad experiences did u had in other country?
      Hotel, restaurant, foods were bad and not enough delicious? Or maybe ur spoon was not enough clean? Maybe they could not dance for u very well?
      Or their water was blue instead white?
      Thier police attacked u took ur pictures because ur very danger and got ur finger prints?
      U were afarid alot yes?
      But again u back home and u had ur family ,…

      Are they told u shout up in ur spirit?

      U know whats mean my last question?

  9. Brave

    Yossie – continuous resident on May 28, 2013 at 8:59 am

    Dana

    Enrique and bunch tell us this blog is about tolerance and acceptance. Now, tell me how your post is about tolerance and acceptance when you and finns are different and you compare yourself with them with terms “here everything is extremely cold and unfriendly” and “i choose warmth not coldness” and “I am alive not dead so i am warm and friendly”.

    To me it looks like you are not in terms with how finns see friendliness. Where is your acceptance and tolerance?

    Yossie,
    Yes my post is about tolerance and acceptance if u open ur heart… watch me i tell u open ur heart…u know whats that mean??? Means open ur heart and understanding me… i meant HELLO is necessary for us humans if we want be firends, if we want show eachother peace and positive wave…u got me now?
    So what u tell about MT? Do u want MT delete me like u do in ur social??
    Because i open my mouth and its only on net???
    Because am enough brave and honest to tell about facts in my life?
    Because i dont put a mask on my face for u and i dont praise u?
    Because i dont write a blog about ur positive things that i never seen in Finalnd?
    U cant even imagine what kind of experience i had and still have in Finalnd.
    Big and small
    U see Yossie yesterday i sent u hello… and what i got in result all is here infront of our eyes.
    U guys show me over and over ur hates, at different places and even on net??? Is not starnge? No not i get used to it very well.
    U could at least write me back a small hello, it was net no more no less but instead u seriously try to show me that we are not equal …that ur better and i have no place in thsi country.
    Finland is my country too because i worked so hard on my life here, because Finland is on planet earth.
    After 5 years trying to mlearn ur language u still try to push me out?
    How long did u try on my mother language?
    U dont know even how we say how are u?
    It makes me respect a person if even this person tell me a few words of my mother language and u still complaining… are not u happy that i put my all moments and wishes on ur language?
    Then what can makes u a friend for me???
    Finland is not in a specially star… so stop it ur negative minds about me… u dont bknow my IQ and life style so dont judge me.
    Thats very bad that am under pressure and again if i tell oh suffering oh pain u and people like u label me with whatever they wish.
    U cant shut my mouth.
    My hello and smiles show i accepted Finns so shall i dance for them to show them my acceptance?
    What shall i to do more? Afetr this wounds i got from u?
    I am doing my best to Finns… u dont know me at all.
    Because i dont care about hate around me i just care about love in me.
    I cant spray hate but love.
    Oh u want a Dana that is robot yes??? I have brain and heart i can feel whats going on around me am not a picture on the wall… u understand it?
    I am not an enemy…
    I am not a slave in Finland.
    I am human being like u and all so i can taste good and bad and i can expalin it very well.
    I am not a child …. here is cold …. even on net i just got attacks from u Finns and only %1 of Finns got me what am telling…
    If only on net i cant get a hello back when i say hello so how can i get it in real with u superman?
    ????????????????????????????????????????????
    And millions other questions

  10. Brave

    expectations, its alright for her to use rthetoric like “here everything is extremely cold and unfriendly” and “i choose warmth not coldness” and “I am alive not dead so i am warm and friendly”?

    Hey Yossie whats wrong with my words?
    Whats wrong with ur child, wife, husband, brother, sister when he/she is crying and explaining u what happened to him at school or classroom, at work or on vacation, in street or other country?
    NOW
    Whats wrong with i am alive not dead so i am warm and friendly…???
    U dont like a friendly foreigner?
    Yes i am
    and u cant make me an enemy for yours but u can be my enemy if it makes u comfort and happy.
    U complain for what?
    I know
    Because i make u shock over and over and u cant believe it me and my words…
    I am not ur enemy i am a friend for u and all Finns and humans.
    U cant change me, i cant act ur favorite because i wont be me if i change me to a stuff that u wish for.
    I am myself and love me.
    Now tell yourself a Hello at mirror and stop it working against yours.
    Peace out

  11. Brave

    I do travel quite actively and have lived a few years abroad, so you can guess it would be almost impossible not to experience some prejudice.
    ………
    Joonas
    u travel, u enjoy, u see colours around u over there, u make ur heart happy so how can u get me? A person between walls?????
    Do u know what walls mean?
    Touch that wall in ur room and ask it… ask it?
    Who are u wall?Please who are u wall?
    Who?

  12. Joonas

    No bad path in my life, no not at all, freedom of speech

    How many times I have heard people defending their racist views in MT and then calling it “freedom of speech”. You understand when you generalize almost six million people the way you do, you are not any better than any white Finnish racist?

    U want wash my brain with ur manner and methods and if i dont listen u want kick me out of MT yes Joonas… but u CANT.

    I have told you many times already: you are entitled to your opinions and share your experiences. I just expressed my dissatisfaction in this thread because you generalized big group of people. You probably wouldn’t like the idea either, if someone would do the same thing about your people or the group you are belonging to?

    Hotel, restaurant, foods were bad and not enough delicious? Or maybe ur spoon was not enough clean? Maybe they could not dance for u very well?

    I have been trying to polite with you so far, but you are soon not giving me any other choice than sink to your level and I wish not to do that. Let’s try to act civil, shall we? For your information: I did not grew up with a golden spoon up in my ass and the people who are actually living abroad are not usually enjoying the privileges you mentioned above.

    u travel, u enjoy, u see colours around u over there, u make ur heart happy so how can u get me? A person between walls?????

    Life is hard and not just for you. We all have to suffer, fight and then get back up.

  13. Brave

    Joonas – continuous resident on May 29, 2013 at 8:28 am

    No bad path in my life, no not at all, freedom of speech

    How many times I have heard people defending their racist views in MT and then calling it “freedom of speech”. You understand when you generalize almost six million people the way you do, you are not any better than any white Finnish racist?

    Oh this is an old joke Joonas but u can make a joke if u feel bore.
    U call me racist because u want put a balnket on the fact of my life?
    I am not worry because i am no racist… but what about U? Why u hate me? U want a white Dana on MT?
    So no/one should tell about their hard experiences with racist because u dont like it? DO u have allergy with racist wrod if u r not racist then why u worry for them ?

  14. Brave

    I have told you many times already: you are entitled to your opinions and share your experiences. I just expressed my dissatisfaction in this thread because you generalized big group of people. You probably wouldn’t like the idea either, if someone would do the same thing about your people or the group you are belonging to?

    My perfect hater Joonas,
    U try to make an air against me on MT… is that a new game?But ur air conditioner does not works.
    So u r belong to which group? u mean racists? i never told 6 million people are racist this is what u exactly try to make it true against me ( now i have nothing to lose in Finalnd )… i tell racist country…racist system and law, racist police, racist court,…,… and racists groups and people… people mean people who are racist not every body…people who ahte me an dhsow this… people who think am not deserve talk to them, people who think am not worthy to be afriend for them… u understand it?
    Good luck to ur negative way

  15. Brave

    have been trying to polite with you so far, but you are soon not giving me any other choice than sink to your level and I wish not to do that. Let’s try to act civil, shall we? For your information: I did not grew up with a golden spoon up in my ass and the people who are actually living abroad are not usually enjoying the privileges you mentioned above.

    Oh polite?
    What a cute boy u r Joonas
    Ur full of anger and hate singing me ur simple thoughts an du call it politely?
    What does really polite means to u?
    Shall i tell u thanks and kiitos ? For what?
    OH thanks for information i truely need it…HUH
    Forget it golden spoon but keep up golden minds if u CAN

  16. Brave

    Life is hard and not just for you. We all have to suffer, fight and then get back up.

    Joonas,
    No we dont have to suffer…. but i got ur holy message
    Dana shut up and suffer.

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