Kouvolan Sanomat of Finland asks four people if they’d work for a foreign company

by , under Migrant Tales

You’d think that most Finns know that their country is part of the globalized world…Well, almost everyone knows but there are just a few who haven’t figured it out. 

Kouvola Sanomat: Do you have anything against being hired by a foreign-owned company?

Ville-Matti Ahola: “At the moment I am employed, but if I needed a job I’d be happy to accept [working for a foreign company]. Jobs are so hard to find these days.”
Timo Pöljö: “Of course I’d accept. Now I have to drive long distances to work. If the workplace were in this town I could bike to work”.
Jenni Ylätalo: “Absolutely not. I moved to Kaipiainen because this is a small village and one does not see foreigners here. I’m patriotic and think Finland belongs to the Finns”.
Outi Vainonen: “Hard to say. I do not have a job at the moment and one needs a job. But it’s a difficult topic since one can’t tell what kind of people foreigners are”.

 Thank you Ossi Mäntylahti for the heads-up.

  1. Sasu

    Hyym Tuo ei oikein paranna sitä ennakkoluuloo, että maaseudun ja ei-pääkaupunki seutulaiset ovat rasistisempia, kuin pääkaupunkiseutulaiset.

    Varmaan kannatta muuttaa vain niihin kaupunkeihin joissa on jo entuudestaan vahva värillinen populaatio. Ghettoutumiselle hattua koska juuri tuolainen asenne vahvistaa sitä, koska värilliset vieraannutetaan kantasuomalaisista jolloin he tietenkin menevät omien luo.

    Minusta heidän olisi pitänyt kysyä myös, että minkä näköinen on keskiverto maahanmuuttaja. Itse oletan heidän kuvan jonkun ei-valkoisen,

  2. Iam

    Hi MT, all
    LOL
    Jenni Ylätalo: “Absolutely not. I moved to Kaipiainen because this is a small village and one does not see foreigners here. I’m patriotic and think Finland belongs to the Finns”

    Oh darling Jenni, finland is not belong to u and me, but to GOD, one day we will leave here dont forget that, its onlya journey, youhoooo
    U cant say I, only I, me, mine, we r all guests here on this planet also
    Jenni,
    May i ask ur village name and address want come and buy a house close to u, then everyday u will see my face infront of u, exactly every day
    U agree? LOL
    Work is work as money is money, u can buy what ever u want if u work for a foreigner company, they will give u EURO, and EURO is what i want work for.
    I will work even for a compant from moon, even for ET company LOL
    Joy to Finland and dear all

    • Duunari

      why do you think that she is saying so I am?

      Asylum seekers arriving in Finland and other European countries claim they have been in a war. They also claim social benefits for the rest of their lives, the majority of them.

      You could call refugees extremely selfish, no interest to do their fair share. Selfish in the sense that their fellow brothers are stuck where they are because economical limits have been exceeded. At least in Finland, 600 refugees waiting for somebody to accomodate them. No money to do this business in the municipalities.

  3. Mark

    Duunari

    why do you think that she is saying so I am?

    Because she is a racist? A xenophobe?

    Come on Duunari, she doesn’t want to ‘see’ foreigners. It’s got nothing to do with having a job, coming from a war zone or needing a place to live. The fact that it’s a visibility issue strongly suggests it’s just plain racism. One assumes that if you look Finnish (i.e. many Russians and Estonians can pass for Finns), then she wouldn’t be offended by the sight of you, but if you look obviously not native Finnish, then she would be offended.

    She tops that off with “Finland is for the Finns”, which I presume means that she doesn’t want to have any immigration at all. The fact is that Finland is for the people living in Finland. It’s hardly for anyone else is it! Nationality is not an exclusive club, as many try to make out. And one person’s Finnish nationality, whether a descendent of a recent or ancient immigrant, in no way interferes with the nationality of another.

    If she feels Finnish, I’m sure she will feel no less Finnish whether there were 10 foreigners in Finland or 100,000 foreigners. See, she hides her racism behind nationalism, but it’s a total crock of shit, as that argument always has been. That kind of xenophobic nationalism is a way to introduce ‘exclusivety’ and ‘ownership’ to something that belongs to no-one but which all residents of Finland should have access to, the national character and way of life. This after all is the mantra of PS, that immigrants should integrate. That presumably means they should have access to this national identity. Jenni clearly would deny them that because she wants to make Finnishness something that is owned by racist Finns. Sounds exactly like PS.

    Asylum seekers arriving in Finland and other European countries claim they have been in a war. They also claim social benefits for the rest of their lives, the majority of them.

    Rubbish. The asylum process goes out of its way to establish the circumstances of entry. Once that has been done, it is the Finnish state that ‘claims’ the nature of that entry. Finland must then take responsibility for that decision to grant asylum. Trying to hide the role of the State in granting asylum and in providing a bridge into normal society just so you can have a pop at immigrants is cowardice and dishonest, Duunari.

    You could call refugees extremely selfish, no interest to do their fair share. Selfish in the sense that their fellow brothers are stuck where they are because economical limits have been exceeded. At least in Finland, 600 refugees waiting for somebody to accomodate them. No money to do this business in the municipalities.

    So, without knowing anything about the personal circumstances or the challenges of being a refugee, you decide that they are selfish and lazy. You are pathetic Duunari, in that you pick on the most vulnerable members of this society and try to put the boot in, attacking people’s character with absolutely no idea about their lives. And all with the disdain, arrogance and condescension of a puppy that’s had everything pretty much served up to him in life on a plate. I guess immigrants break in on your own personal sense of entitlement in life. No surprise there. And you claim to understand issues surrounding women’s rights? You really are bloody clueless!

    Stop picking on immigrants and start contributing something useful to Finnish society other than hate-filled intolerance, inhumanity and ignorance.

  4. Mark

    Duunari

    It amazes me how individuals like to claim this ‘ownership’ of Finland, that Finland is ‘for the Finns’.

    Most people own less than 1.7743867275872776 x 10-7% of Finland, and a good many people own absolutely no part of Finland, as they live in rented accommodation.

    So, I really wonder what this ‘Finland is for the Finns’ actually means. If we are talking about Finnish identity, then why the hell are people sticking their noses into other people’s business telling them what identity they can and cannot have?

    The key thing here is that if someone is allowed to live in Finland, then they should be able to live with the same basic human rights in that society as other citizens, including the right to live free of discrimination. Anything less than this is simply Finns trying to water down the human rights of immigrants living in Finland. I know most Finns do not want that. But it’s amazing how many Finns do not even realise the consequences of their own prejudices!

  5. Duunari

    Finns fought the wars for their country. Spent years, decades to build up Finland. Finland was poor after WW2, in debts but was able to turn the tide after decades of hard work.

    Nobody felt sorry, or was obliged to feel sorry for people in Northern Ireland. They struggled many decades with civil war, perhaps still are.

    So the question remains, why do you resque people from assterted wars who you have to feed for the rest of their lives?

    • Mark

      Duunari

      Finns fought the wars for their country.

      What has this to do with anything? Do you own a war, or a result of a war? All countries have fought wars. Finns also fought each other in their country, less than a 100 years ago. Where there are heroes, there are also villains! How exactly does this give Finns the right to be prejudiced against foreigners?

      And building up Finland would not have happened if Finland had not had the opportunity to co-operate with foreign trade partners. Nokia’s success was due to its ability to exploit global markets in America, Asia and Europe and foreign workforces. The idea that Finland somehow achieved success ‘single-handedly’ and entirely through its own efforts is utter delusion. Not only that, but success has been distributed unequally within Finland. 33% of Finns do not own their own home. No Finnish land belongs to them. They are renting, or merely ‘real estate visitors’.

      Spent years, decades to build up Finland. Finland was poor after WW2, in debts but was able to turn the tide after decades of hard work.

      This is a story, Duunari. It’s not even your story. It’s the story of a nation state, but as a story, it belongs not to any individual, while many of the individuals who took some tiny part in this story are now dead. But you take this story, claim it almost entirely as your own, as giving you the right to define who and what is Finnish or Finland, and all the while ignore the most basic of realities – Finland does not belong to you (do you own even 150sqm of it?) and neither does the story of Finland. This is not something that anyone of us here can claim ownership of, much less for the purpose of discriminating against foreigners. It is absurd.

      There is the Finnish way of life, which is a collective set of traditions, foods, festivals and institutional developments, which define Finland as a nation state. National identity is not like a train on a train track, forced to go only the path set out by the tracks. People are free to construct their sense of Finnishness, their sense of the culture and history of Finland in any way they please; they can focus on classics, on old traditions, on modern cultural icons, even on global cultural icons. Your notion of Finnishness is plastic and rigid and you wield it only as a political weapon against the most vulnerable in society. Your nationalism is a fraud, Duunari, based on lies and illusions about what it means to be a Finn.

      You speak of wars that you have not fought in, you speak of cultures that you have not lived in, you speak of people that you have not met, you speak of ownership that you do not own, you speak of success that you have not created, you speak of religions that you do not believe in, you speak of universal human rights that you deny to people of particular races, nationalities and religions.

      You are a fraud, Duunari. You build a house on sand, and claim it as the rock of the world!

    • Mark

      Duunari

      Your premise is that “it’s mine and you cannot have it”, except that it isn’t yours, is it!

      So, rather than reveal that obvious falsehood, you start instead with the “it’s ours and you cannot have it”, assuming that you have all Finns behind you and supporting you. The reality is something else.

      You have a few other racist and ignorant Finns behind you and probably taken together, you still own probably less than millionth of that which is Finland, while actually having made very little contribution to Finland’s success or development as a nation. So this ‘ours’ is another lie, because it’s not yours.

      You pretend to own something that you don’t and then tell someone else they cannot have it. That’s some distorted reality bubble you are living in!

  6. Duunari

    -Rubbish. The asylum process goes out of its way to establish the circumstances of entry. Once that has been done, it is the Finnish state that ‘claims’ the nature of that entry. Finland must then take responsibility for that decision to grant asylum. Trying to hide the role of the State in granting asylum and in providing a bridge into normal society just so you can have a pop at immigrants is cowardice and dishonest, Duunari.

    Rubbish Mark.

    International agreements such as the refugee convention oblidges Finland to receive immigrants, asylum seekers indeed yes. With the possibility within the frame of international agreements to transfer refuges=people granted asylum to another location. Since there is no space currently, refugees have to be relocated thanks to the suicidal policy, Finland has pursued for years.

  7. Mark

    Duunari

    Since there is no space currently, refugees have to be relocated thanks to the suicidal policy, Finland has pursued for years.

    What you mean to say is that because Finland limits the budget for integration, municipalities are slow in housing some of these asylum seekers.

    How is that suicidal? It’s a logistical problem, created by a system that is cumbersome and underfunded. 600 is actually a pretty low number considering!

    As usual, you sprinkle in words and phrases to make the situation appear far worse than it is.

    What on earth is ‘suicidal’ about it? Suicide = taking one’s own life. Show me the relevance of this word that you have used in conjunction with housing of immigrants? Finland killed itself, eh? Except it’s been doing it for years?

    Hot air and hatred, Duunari. You are full of hot air and hatred!!!

  8. Iam

    Hi Duunari,how r u??
    Why do you think that she is saying so I am? Think??? Dont joke please but
    Thanks to Mark, he answered that
    Maybe u Duunari think she loves me, then i can send her a few picts of me,… and she can send me a garden of flower instead, ha ha ha
    I like ur name Duunari
    I wish a beautiful mind for racist people
    I wish peace and love for Finland

  9. Duunari

    I am, wasn’t it you who considered intership for immigrants as racism?

    600 is not low, it is 600 too much. How do you think this problem will be solved or what would you do to solve it?

    So Mark, throw out the potential solutions. Close down Helsinki university?

    Suicide is exactly what Europe has been committing for the past ten years or more. In financial sector the lethal injection will not be injected but a slow decline of economy. Apparently Jussi Halla-aho knew this in 2003 when his blog started but since many people hate him they rather refuse to see the truth and admit that he is/was right.

    You do not need engineering skills to determine the decline of Finland.

  10. Mark

    Duunari

    Allah-oho is a linguist, and not an economist, and he should stick to that.

    The economic downturn has NOTHING to do with immigration. It was a result of deregulation and new financial derivatives allowing investment banks to stretch their risks and liabilities while keeping them off the balance books, allowing a risk bubble to develop. It was acceptable because they were making a lot of money selling this repackaged debt! But when the bubble burst and the derivatives became practically worthless, governments had to step in to shore up the banks. That in turn also affected the Governments ability to raise finance and to service existing debt. I haven’t seen a serious economist mention ‘immigration’ as the root cause of the recent recession.

    Your extreme cultural pessimism is equaled only by your gullibility to buy into half-baked conspiracy theories about how migration will be the ruination of us all!

  11. Duunari

    multicultural-hurray decay started a long ago, perhaps 15-20 years ago. The ”finanssi-kriisi” or the sub-prime crisis had nothing to do with immigration in Europe, it was mainly the US failed policy to lend money to people without decent ability to pay them back. The Lisbon-strategy, the competitive strategy of Europe failed by official records 3-4 years prior to the bank-crisis.

    One can do immigration properly, Europe has decided to do it improperly. Once again, you need no expert-status to confirm the utter failure of immigration in Europe.

    If you seek for succesful multicultural stories, it is the US. Canada used to be successful but not any more.

  12. Duunari

    I know a couple of Romanians who work in Spain for 10 years + already but never registered by the Spannish authorities. They work only the winters and then returned to Romania in the summer/spring.

    The official Spannish net migration has been positive since year 2000 with a clear peak in 2011, 2010 and 2009. The unemployment in Spain is sky-high as we all know. Year 2011 more than 100 000 people left Spain.

    So you can ask what Spain is doing. They are concsiously committed suicide yes but why are they doing so.

    • Mark

      Duunari (Farang?)

      You are so mixed, man. Between 2000 and 2008, at the time of the large influx of migrants to Spain from Latin America (1.6 m), North Africa (900,000) and Europe (1.1 m), there were also 5 million new jobs created. People went there because there was work, in construction, nursing and agriculture.

      But get this, as soon as the downturn hit, it was immigrants that got made redundent first. What effect does that have? It leads to nearly 50% unemployment rates among immigrants in some areas compared to a 25% representation in the population. Then what happens? People say they are lazy and won’t work and are claiming benefits!

      You cannot win, can you! You are invited there to work when the times are good, and when times get hard, you become the scapegoat for all the problems of society.

      It’s two faced morality and it’s lazy thinking that leads to this scapegoating, and it really should be stopped. But there are too many sneaky politicians who want to cash in on the hardship and make the immigrants into scapegoats! They are the cesspit of the political arena! They sow social division, emnity and racism!!! Just to get a vote!

  13. Iam

    I am, wasn’t it you who considered intership for immigrants as racism?

    600 is not low, it is 600 too much. How do you think this problem will be solved or what would you do to solve it?

    Duunari who said 600 ??? and who says 600 is not low?
    Why not normal salary when am working seriously and hard?
    Yeah please.

    • Duunari

      wasn’t means the past. The attitude presented along with Dana’s makes it impossible for different cultures to exist together.

    • JusticeDemon

      You were yellow-carded by a moderator a couple of days ago for trying to post a comment that infringed section 10 of chapter 17 of the Finnish Penal Code (Uskonrauhan rikkominen).

      Obviously your comments are being held for premoderation.

  14. D4R

    With the attitude of these kind of people are what is preventing us Immigrants to Integrate in to Finnish society. And they wonder why arent many of us working or not integrating in to Finnish society, how on earth you can integrate or even have a chance of getting a job when there’re people with these kind of attitudes, who already convinced to theirself that immigrants are no good.

  15. D4R

    Also, being patriot doesnt mean to hate on people, some of you Finns just misusing the word. When you start hating people in the name of patriotism then you’re not being a true patriot, this woman been brainwashed by Homma bangers, i feel sorry for everyone one of you who thinks like her.

  16. Mark

    The attitude presented along with Dana’s makes it impossible for different cultures to exist together.

    So different cultures cannot get on together? Because there are problems? Finns have problems with other Finns all the time, what is that? Schisms in Finnish culture? Duunari, you are taking all information and filtering it through your obvious prejudice and getting a distorted picture of reality out the other end – a picture I might add that completely washes out people’s humanity!!! Your concept of ‘culture’ is as plastic as you are!

  17. Duunari

    How do you deal with people who appreciate nothing that has been offered, sees the host and the colleagues as badly as she does? Just because you are a foreigner D4R doesn’t mean that you should subscribe to her ”seek for attention”, does it? That would mean that whatever a foreigner does you have to somehow approve it

    Finland can indeed learn of many cultures, for instance in Africa but at the same time there are many cultures that Finland and Europe mustn’t learn from. Cultures where women are kept as slaves, as men’s properties shouldn’t have influence.Slavery and and wife-beating guidebooks should be history, right?

    • Mark

      Duunari

      That would mean that whatever a foreigner does you have to somehow approve it.

      That’s the party line, isn’t it, Farang? That Finns are just supposed to do everything that is asked of them by foreigners, otherwise they are racists! That’s how we construct the ‘Finns are the victims here’ narrative. It’s a handy little device for not having to take anything that a foreigner says seriously, because they are just ‘playing the race card’.

      You can spot this a mile off because it always takes us off topic, it always goes away from the details of an individual’s personal experiences with racism or discrimination, and takes us into some abstract thinking about Finns being victims and racism being used as an excuse. Forget the real people caught up in the middle, let’s have this cerebral conversation about foreigners and what they are like.

      It’s clear that I am has had bad experiences, and that many Finns have acknowledged this, but that the official routes to having this recognized and considered have been closed to her. That’s her experience and it needs to be taken seriously.

      Calling her an ‘attention seeker’ is pretty low, Duunari! That sounds like a pretty abusive comment to me. Funny too how you go from this abusive comment to talking about abuse of women in other cultures and are completely oblivious to the hypocracy of your words.

      Cultures where women are kept as slaves, as men’s properties shouldn’t have influence.Slavery and and wife-beating guidebooks should be history, right?

      And did you personally lobby governments in Finland ten years ago when the law was changed to make rape inside marriage illegal in Finland? Hypocrite!!!!!

    • JusticeDemon

      After all that rambling nonsense shuffling from topic to topic in the JSN thread, now suddenly you are concerned that your BTL comments are relevant to the ATL post, but not so concerned that you can be bothered to do this yourself?

      Some sort of progress there, I suppose.

  18. Iam

    wasn’t means the past.
    something happened to my comments
    Okay Duunary,
    Hi Dear all
    Haa ha ha ha, what happened to ur comments? Looks like ur comment is slippery ,but am wondering now its summer and there is not icy street here and there, joking a bit Duunary, u r also our dear Dunnary, feel relax here please, here is a MT for me, u and all
    Have a happy day UUUUU all

  19. Duunari

    You can spot this a mile off because it always takes us off topic, it always goes away from the details of an individual’s personal experiences with racism or discrimination, and takes us into some abstract thinking about Finns being victims and racism being used as an excuse. Forget the real people caught up in the middle, let’s have this cerebral conversation about foreigners and what they are like.

    It’s clear that I am has had bad experiences, and that many Finns have acknowledged this, but that the official routes to having this recognized and considered have been closed to her. That’s her experience and it needs to be taken seriously.

    Calling her an ‘attention seeker’ is pretty low, Duunari! That sounds like a pretty abusive comment to me. Funny too how you go from this abusive comment to talking about abuse of women in other cultures and are completely oblivious to the hypocracy of your words.

    And did you personally lobby governments in Finland ten years ago when the law was changed to make rape inside marriage illegal in Finland? Hypocrite!!!!!

    this is not a dialog between you and I Mark. Issues argue, not people. And yes, you do not need to encourage cultures with wife beating. There is really no option, either you advocate wife-beating or you try to stop it.

    Mark, get my name right next time. For instance, raaka duunari would sound nice.

    Race card, doesn’t matter who is trying to come up with wife beating guidebooks, it stinks, odour. It is actually the other way around. Foreigners take it as racism eventhough you make a qualified remark, for instance on D4R earlier. Immigrants, in particular muslim immigrants have all kind of explanations to accusation…however they are pretty much the only ones who have a problem. Rest of immigrants in Finland, do not drill and drill on issues and particularly racism. All others do fine, worth praising.

    • Mark

      Duunari

      This is not a dialog because you do not respond directly to any of the criticisms. Issues argue? Rubbish – people argue! Ideas are nothing without people. Opinions cannot be held by themselves. There are very few cultures that openly encourage wife-beating. In Finland, it is not acceptable, and yet it is still prevalent. The idea that it is either acceptable or not in the culture and that’s the end of it is ridiculously oversimplified.

      Muslim immigrants the only ones to have a problem? That is incredibly ignorant you. Ignorant of Islam and ignorant of the problems of domestic violence in Finland.

      If you think Muslims are the only people to have problems with racism, you are again horribly ignorant. The idea that all the others are okay, and that we all just gang up on Muslims as the baddies, it’s just incredibly ignorant and devious. The hallmark of an abusive mind.

  20. Duunari

    Issues argue, otherwise you have to do as Justice demon and getting personal is apretty long race. A global race.

    Why can’t you give critics to Dana? Dana is not you, you do not need to have a personal interest in her, if you have then your personal territory is this world. Impossible. Did you ever think that there was not even one comment over the reason why she came to Finland, to practise something else than islam. :)

    Sure wife-beating is acceptable openly for muslims in islam. surah 4:34. Wife beating is less prevalent than you indicate in domestic violence here, you’d rather talk about husband beating. Yle reported that women beat more than men in Finland a while ago.

    • Mark

      Dunnari

      Why would I criticize Dana? You are a million miles from understanding the the incredible hardship that she has experienced, and yet she still puts a brave face to the world. Problem-solving is about listening to what has happened to people and trying to understand their frustrations. It’s not a blame game, and when you turn it into one, it becomes lose-lose. Name me one thing about Dana’s story that you expect me to criticize?

      No, wife-beating is not acceptable in Islam. Duunari, you say you care about women’s rights, and the minute that women’s rights in Finland are mentioned, you take the men’s rights position! You are full of hypocrisy.

  21. Duunari

    are you also Mark the guys who keep the side of your fellows regardless of what they do, rape, murder, assault and similar or are you the denier type like the father of one of the adolescnets guys who was judged for gang rape in Malminkartano. The father said,-my sun did not do it,- the sun said in the police protocol,- I was not at the crime scene and if I was there I did not do it. :)

    • Mark

      Duunari

      I find your comments highly offensive – that you constantly associate immigrants or muslims with rape and murder, it’s just unacceptable in a civilised society. You mention no specific nationalities or religion otherwise, your comment would be illegal, Duunari. But you don’t even understand your own Finnish laws.

      There are Finns who are rapists and murderers and fathers who cover up for sons. It’s not rocket science to understand that people should be treated as individuals and not degraded and dehumanised like you are doing. I don’t have to defend rapists, Duunari, I am defending the innocent people that you paint with this disgusting brush of prejudice of yours!

    • Mark

      Do you not care or think for a second that what you are doing is stigmatizing people simply because of their group membership? You are an abuser, Duunari! There’s just no other word for it.

  22. Iam

    Hi MT, all
    Duunary whats women’s rights mean for u?
    What criticize?
    Really???
    What kind of human is ur favour, what kind of character?
    Do u think that a muslim cant change his/her way??
    What is love means for u?
    Have u never fall in love?
    Do u have a lover in ur life? family? children?
    R u love yourself?
    Do u mean whats the mean of fall in love with Jesus Christ?
    Whats religion means for u?
    What was ur religion if u were born in muslim country?
    What if in China? Japan? India?
    We r all free, we have free will, we can choose our match, our house, our way, some prefer a religion, some prefer a way, we can choose nothing,exactly zero,as u like, as i like, as we like, we can choose right now what we want and need it?
    We have free will,we r soooo lucky.
    Do u know whats mean life, if u knock all the time and receive hate??
    Do u knowtaht there is a heart in the middle of ur chest?
    Ur ehart cant say lie to u, noooo
    Just ask yourself a bout Dana topic.
    Have a easy day uuuuu all
    la la la la
    La la la la
    Youhooooooooooooooo universe, I LOVE UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
    Best to MT

  23. Duunari

    Spain commits suicide, they should have sent home immigrants from 2008 onwards or at least not taken in more on an accelarating speed, this was however the case. From 2009 on more and more people left Spain and more and more people entered Spain. And sky-high unemployment.

    of course I think that refugees are selfish, the majority of them are in Finland. More asylum-seekers are stuck in the camps of the UN. Refugees could contribute but they care mainly about themselves, therefore their fellow brothers remain in misery. Look at Kenyans, they are a true asset for the Finnish society. Amoung many others.

    Are you comedian by profession Mark? Making up things, stirring and inventing painting all black.

    You have to claim responsability for everybody in this world, it is your duty, right? If I break my leg, will you evacuate me to hospital personally like a fire-fighter?

    • Mark

      Duunari

      You again fail to acknowledge the real conditions on the ground – Spain created 5 million new jobs as part of a growing economy and imported labour to service that growth. When the downturn hit, the first to suffer unemployment were the immigrants. That subsequent unemployment was then used as a stick to beat the immigrants with. All this talk of ‘shutting the doors in 2008′ or sending people home is really really really missing the point. If you think that it is morally okay to invite people to move to Spain to work and pay taxes and the minute there is a downturn, to kick them out and deny them the same rights to a social safety net, then your moral compass is so far off, I really wonder how you find toothbrush in the morning.

      You slag off refugees for caring about ‘themselves’ and not their fellow brothers, and then you promptly show absolutely no care for them, as fellow citizens of Finland. But to speak about a broad group of people in this way is retarded. It’s a bit like saying ‘All Finns are stupid’. It’s absurd. Even the idea that most Finns are stupid is absurd. Any kind of negative targetting of a group is likely to be absurd. And yet you do it all the time.

  24. Mark

    Duunari

    I can relate a lot more easily to what Dana is saying than what you are saying. It’s really that simple. What you are saying sounds rigid and judgemental, and just plain unfair. It sounds dangerous and provocative. It sounds insulting and abusive. This is how it sounds.

    There is a way to discuss belief, culture, politics and immigration that does not involve this being judgemental. It is absolutely not about hiding from problems or hear no evil, see no evil among immigrants. My grumble with you and others like you is absolutely not that. It’s the implied judgement and cultural/racial superiority that you bring to the debate, and your desire to lump people into groups and dig up as much dirt as you can to discredit that group and create a pretence so that you can exclude that group from Finnish society.

    There is something really sick about what you write and how you write.

    And it has nothing to do with ‘criticising immigration policies’. It is to do with how you treat people.

  25. Iam

    Are you comedian by profession Mark? Making up things, stirring and inventing painting all black.

    You have to claim responsability for everybody in this world, it is your duty, right? If I break my leg, will you evacuate me to hospital personally like a fire-fighter?
    OOOPs Duunari,
    Relax
    what???
    I asked some questions of u???
    Dont run, stay and answer it instead being angry and sad
    LOL
    Comedian? What does comedian mean to u Duunari?
    Talking about the fact is not comic and so cant makes me comedian,but being proud about race and color, money and situation, country and …. makes a person comic.
    Secondly u want debate? Then why r u angry?
    Be relax and talk until next summer, ur free.
    U want control my happiness and joy? LOL
    I can laugh i can joke i can dance in my freedom and u cant do anything about that, exactly nothing, u have no power on my life, ur bad words are yours and belong to ur heart and not mine, so be aware.
    LOL please dont break ur leg Duunari because u dont have my phone number and u cant call me and so i cant help u
    waiting for ur answers, asked u some question, easyyyyyy questions, dont jump here and there just answer.

    Am brave like a lion

  26. Duunari

    so you say that it is better for Spain to stay moral and sink with dignity. Immigrants are so precious that regardless the fact the indigenous people take off on a daily basis you still have to import more immigrants so it looks good. So once you sink, you sink properly.

    Then we have come to this day, the Spanish economy is on red, nobody in the whole Europe sees the way out for Spain but still it is not the time for admitting that Spain did a mistake. If things get nasty for Spain which is the most potential cause, the whole Europe will suffer may be even the whole world. Shortage of food supplies followed by wawes of stealing, robbing etc. Do not forget that Greece is out of money within some weeks.

    Animals have a sixth sense. A sense that they can feel tsunamis, avalanches etc in advance. Humans do not have this, however most of the humans get the red warning signs, that they understand they danger. Then there those who do not get.

    “They are proud in humility, proud in that they are not proud.”

    Portugal, Ireland, Italy, can NOT take a push from the left or right no longer. The engine of the house and its cylinders Germany and France cannot take that much any more. Britain can not take much any more.

    Let’s see what it will be like when the olympic games start in London. Will we still have the EU?

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