Iltalehti: Ulkomaalainen mies ryöstettiin Vaasassa

by , under All categories, Enrique

CommentAn African 40-year-old man was robbed and assaulted on Saturday in a Vaasa neighborhood, reports tabloid Iltalehti. The attackers, who were 5-6 white Finns between the ages of 20 and 25, started to call the man names like the n-word. After being threatened in public, one of the assailants threw a punch at the man, who then fell on the ground and was kicked. 

Being verbally and physically attacked in public is horrible for anyone but what surprises me, if the report by Iltalehti is accurate, is that the police is treating the matter as a robbery.

Certainly we should not jump to conclusions until the police report is out and the perpetrators have been brought to justice.

However, it is common practice in countries where paramilitary groups roam freely to kidnap their victims at their homes and steal something to show that robbery could be involved.

Once again we must thank the Finnish media for bringing these types of crimes to light. It shows that sensible Finns will not accept this type of behavior in their country.

_____________

Uhri kaadettiin maahan, ja häntä lyötiin ja potkittiin.  Afrikkalaissyntyinen 40-vuotias mies ryöstettiin Ristinummella Vaasassa lauantaina klo 15 jälkeen. Miehen luokse oli tullut 5-6 suomalaista noin 20-25-vuotiasta miestä ja ryhtynyt nimittelemään tätä muun muassa neekeriksi. 

Read whole story.

  1. JusticeDemon

    Ricky

    I assume that the Iltalehti report is based on an interview with this African. The police, on the other hand, must proceed on the basis of reliable facts, and you know what liars these blacks are.

    There is no racism in Finland. The victim must have been hallucinating.

    • Enrique

      JusticeDemon, I get you loud and clear. It will be interesting to follow this story and how it supports this myth that “there is no racism in Finland.”

  2. vincebel

    Its again a sad and stupid story with apparently some racist behaviour.

    But again in my home country (Belgium) this happens everyday but the opposite. A group of young foreigners rob and kick an old guy in the street.

    So Enrique. I m sure your blog is for good reasons but those facts happen both sides, in some countries like France, Spain, Belgium its even worse. (crimes commited by foreigners). Its wrong and sad but this guy apparently pays for the mistakes of other foreigners who dont give a shit about their host country

    You should either post some crimes done by foreigners as well (rape, robbing, assault) which im sure occur also in Finland and so be more objective OR concentrate your blog on political matters, immigration policy , success stories, good news.

    Those posts are the same as reading iltalehti. By doing this u dont help finnish and foreigners going together And once again racism is everywhere and will always be

    • Enrique

      –So Enrique. I m sure your blog is for good reasons but those facts happen both sides, in some countries like France, Spain, Belgium its even worse. (crimes commited by foreigners).

      Vincebel, we do not condone any type of violence from any group. If there is ever a case of immigrant gangs attacking innocent victims, mark my word that we will condemn it.

  3. vincebel

    edit. by meaning a group of foreigners i meant a group of belgian citizens with a totaly different education, culture and background mostly due to their parents.
    Even if the vast majority of them are perfectly integrated, some are just washing away all those years of effort of integration

    A french saying says: ‘A tree who falls makes more noise than a forest who grows’ and that can perfectly resume the problem of immigration and integration

  4. Yossie

    Would you post such piece of news here in migrant tales? So far I have only seen you been interested in cases where immigrants are victims and how that supports your opinion of overflowing racism in Finland.

    I think recently we have had news about how 50% rapes done in Helsinki are made by foreigners. Such high overreprisentation would call out to think what is wrong but suppose that is not something we want to talk about in migrant tales as its not migrants that are victims here.

  5. JusticeDemon

    There is no racism in Finland.

    But any criminal behaviour that seems to be racially motivated can either be trivialised or fully justified by referring to misconduct by immigrants.

    If this racially aggravated robbery did in fact occur as reported in Iltalehti, then it was either not really serious (normal youthful banter) or it is an entirely justified and understandable reaction against other offences committed by third parties of colour, who are obviously conspirators acting as a co-ordinated group.

    The assailants in this case were the victims of entrapment. The African was being offensively provocative by visually resembling a known criminal element in society, and by being out of doors in Ristinummi after 3 p.m. Let’s also not forget that Vaasa is a notoriously Swedish-speaking region, and the residents of this new suburb are an oppressed Finnish-speaking minority. The police should investigate the obvious connection between this incident and the old Swedish-speaking mafia.

    The police should also investigate how this African happened to be in Finland in the first place. Who knows what lies were told?

    That just about covers all of the usual bogus justifications…

  6. Yossie

    not justifying anything, merely asking if migrant tales is a place where immigrants are only victims and nothing more.

    • Enrique

      Yossie, there are a bunch of sites were one can bash immigrants at will. A few are Homma, Scripta and a number of other blogs that you can find on Uusi Suomi. Migrant Tales is a blog and aims to be a voice of the immigrant community that is heard faintly by politicians, the media and the latter sites I mentioned. We speak up for the immigrants but this does not mean that we, like Homma and Scripta, only speak to ourselves. As you have noticed, we have a wide variety of bloggers who visit us, ranging from immigrants to Finns.

  7. Hannu

    “Vincebel, we do not condone any type of violence from any group.”

    Enrique now you lied, remember “do you pull my leg” case and your “they dont belong in society and we have to make that clear”
    Tsk…

  8. Hmmm

    “That just about covers all of the usual bogus justifications…”

    The irony is that such justifications seem to be used more often by the ‘other team’ ….

  9. Yossie

    Talking about crimes committed by immigrants is bashing them? I guess we should just sweep them under the carpet then… maybe immigrant community is not ready to talk about the crimes they commit. Then again why finns should be bashing themselves with talks of racism then? Voice of finns should be talk about crimes committed against them only too?

    • Enrique

      If you look at the way immigrants are spoken off on these sites like Hommaforum. I guess since they can speak with a mask anything goes. It is like the writing on the wall of a public toilet. People would never say such things with their names. Here is a column which sums up the matter pretty good by Ossi Mäntylahti

      Samalla hän (Jussi Halla-aho) kuitenkin maalailee kuvaa ”palavista ghetoista”, vääristelee tilastoja parhaansa mukaan, saivartelee minkä kerkiää ja villitsee kannattajansa vastenmielisiin tempauksiin. Yhteisvastuukeräyksen häiritseminen on näistä ehkä lievimmästä päästä.

  10. Yossie

    Suppose its too much to hope there could be an appropriate conversation in here either then? On a side note I have to wonder the tactics of those who dislike halla-aho. Instead of trying to discredit him by showing his faults in argument, they tend to go against his person and just make him a racist.

    Also when Halla-aho talks about ghetos, well.. isnt it a same thing when you talk about finland going back to 30s and 40s if it was up to PS?

    • Enrique

      Yossie, I think your definition of racism and mine differ. You have probably noticed that our threshold is pretty low maybe because some of us have lived in countries where this has happened or which are culturally diverse.

      Speaking of Halla-aho and those in the PS who promote discrimination willingly or unwillingly is like debating whether democracy or autocracy is the right form of government. Those who think they can insult immigrants openly sound like when women started wearing pants from dresses or should we discuss openly anonymous offensive writings on a public bathroom wall? Racism and prejudice have no place in our society and should be condemned. It is not part of our values and is a destructive force. Finland is slowly learning to differentiate between what is racist chatter and serious debate on immigration.

      What do you think future generations of Finns and academics, some of these immigrant backgrounds, will think about these writings in the future. I think they will look like much of the racist material written in the last century about blacks, Jews and other minorities. Why because they are based on stereotypes and racism. If you think people like Halla-aho are not venerated in the academic world, it is because they have no scientific foundation.

      The success of Finnish society is based on equality not stressing and excluding others. Halla-aho and his group want just that with immigrants and minorities. There are so many red herrings in what they write that it isn’t funny. Fortunately we can spot them.

      So the answer your question certainly they can and people are constantly debating their ideas on Migrant Tales. We allow that because we don’t want to turn into a Hommaforum of Scripta blog where only one crowd of people get together.

      We can discuss Halla-aho’s ideas but in my opinion he is a populist, Islamophobic belonging to an extremist association called Suomen Sisu who enjoys collecting political brownie points by bashing immigrants and Muslims. KRP and Supo have classified Suomen Sisu as a Nazi-spirited association.

  11. Yossie

    What future generations think depens quite a lot in the future situation. If the future is islamization and opression of non-muslims then they might be seen in different light, if not then they might be seen as racists.

    I wouldnt get too proud of migrant tales being so open to ideas when only thing you post here is about migrants getting attacked, claiming it to be a prove of increase in racisms, nazims and god knows what. This while similar attacks against finns you dont bother to post. in the end these single things dont tell a jack shit to be honest. If it would then one rape made by immigrants would prove they are rapist all right?

    If you really wanted to make your blog better, you should stop focusing on these single cases and come up with bigger picture with statistics that could show some concrete evidence rather than “I feel the atmosphere has got more hostile”. We can talk about for example PS getting major victory and does that mean its because of racism? is it because of EU? why? what has changed? Why are racist only islamophopic? Why arent those from asia getting hard time?

    It seems this blog is taking a easy way of reporting every crime against their group and claiming it supports their agenda very much like hommaforum.

    • Enrique

      –If the future is islamization and opression of non-muslims then they might be seen in different light, if not then they might be seen as racists.

      Sorry, but to base my racism on hypothetical views is not only irresponsible but reckless. This is a typical argument used by far-right groups to justify their hatred of a group. Now, what about if I told you that there is no scientific evidence that this can happen. For example, those that claim that we will live under Islam believe that people and cultures don’t change. In other words they don’t have free will. All people like Jussi Halla-aho and other are telling you is their method of demonizing a group. They tell us that these people are so bad that they cannot live with us. Therefore, my racism is justified.

      If we went around with that kind of an attitude today we’d be declaring war on all of our imagined enemies. We’d be accusing them even before a fair trail. So, Yossie, don’t eat that baloney.

      Who then is the greatest threat to our society? These people and their values. They will create social inequality with their racism and ignorance. No matter who you are, you will fight against oppression and people have a right to do that.

      The formula for success? Mutual acceptance, mutual respect and equal opportunities. This further explains it: Freedom of speech is the best defence against autocracy.

  12. vincebel

    (If you really wanted to make your blog better, you should stop focusing on these single cases and come up with bigger picture with statistics that could show some concrete evidence rather than “I feel the atmosphere has got more hostile”. We can talk about for example PS getting major victory and does that mean its because of racism? is it because of EU? why? what has changed? Why are racist only islamophopic? Why arent those from asia getting hard time?

    )

    that was my point earlier but i didnt want to point out any religions or culture, cos i would become a racist…

    • Enrique

      vincebel, thank you for your suggestion which is always welcome. Fair and honest criticism that isn’t destructive is always a good thing. It makes our blog stronger.

      Looking from the visitors that Migrant Tales gets daily, I’d say we are very popular and have a strong daily backing taking into account that we began with an average of 9 visitors daily when we began in May 2007. However, there is always room for improvement. If I could, I’d like us to be an honest forum where everyone can debate about immigrants and immigration to Finland. Debate is healthy. I have learned a great deal from many people’s comments on Migrant Tales.

      Why do so many people visit us today? Because we are a different voice that speaks out for immigrants and minorities. I believe that a lot of people see themselves through this blog. We are the underdog against the whole system of prejudice and call to attention issues that are conveniently overlooked by politicians and the media. The more racism gets a foothold in Finland, the more we will grow. If the number of visitors dropped dramatically, it means matters have changed for the better in Finland.

      I try to give a bigger view of immigration by publishing and commenting on similar issues in other countries in Europe, North and South America. Also, I think we have spoken about immigration from different angles ranging from immigrants to Finnish immigrants and Multicultural Finns. Like I said, there is always room for improvement.

      With respect to your question if there is a correlation between the PS victory and racism, I don’t think there is yet anything empirical that supports such a claim. This could be the case but we cannot claim that it is. We’d have to wait for more statistics like hate crimes after April 2011. Even after that it would be difficult to pin it directly on the PS. However, we could say that the PS victory may have emboldened people to be more open about their racism and hence this has fuelled hate crimes.

      After living over 30 years in Finland and having reported and researched Finland, I have come to the conclusion that racism is a social issue in Finland that must be dealt more aggressively. We are, however, learning to be more outspoken on this front.

  13. vincebel

    Some groups have strong cultural background and habits but they keep them in privacy and nobody has any trouble with them. In the other way some other group try to impose their cultures and habits claiming that everything is BS.

    Then the problem of the refugees is that they didnt really choose to come here and with the recession its hard to integrate them in a social and economic point of view . For sure those people need lots of help but then again some finnish people too.

    If the country (world) was rich and flourishing im sure there wouldnt be any problems…

  14. JusticeDemon

    No new or cogent contributions so far. Only the usual tired non sequiturs.

    Why did the international press give so much coverage to Bernie Madoff and so little to Kari Uoti?

  15. Yossie

    I kinda regret of even mentioning it now since it was not my intention for us to talk about islamization of supposed islamization here. Merely taking the extreme example to my point that that history will be judged based on the outcome of the events so assuming something now is rather difficult task to do.

    Islamization is actually quite good topic for you to handel since it is the bigger picture and gives you an opportunity to actually discredit Halla-aho’s claims if well reasoned. This however should be a topic of itself rather than argued over in comments of some random racist attack.

    I more hoped you had commented on what me and vincebel were trying to suggest.

    • Enrique

      OK Yossie, let’s debate this if you wish. Where do you want to start?

    • Enrique

      — So your solution is don’t ask don’t tell? –

      No, I didn’t mean that. How do you think we could get a wider view of immigration in Finland? Would it mean taking specific issues and debating them? We do that but maybe we could do more. What would like to do?

  16. Hannu

    Enriques “debate” is “everything is racism, if you dont agree youre facist”. And of course “are you pulling my leg” as answer when asked about violence and labeling sick people as ones who you can discriminate, what is sickness is of course enriques decision.
    Also enrique labels people with certain clothing and hairstyle as criminals and do tell that they dont have place in finnish society.
    Then he claims that hes tolerant 😀

    • Enrique

      Hanny, I have only one comment: Oy vey!

      So I am a racist and a fascist. Why is it that whenever you guys from Homma and Scripta feel challenged, you turn the argument around. Tiwaz did that too. It’s absurd because it is like accusing the victims of a concentration camp of being SS officers throwing the Zyklon-B pellets into the chamber.

      Please be more creative and use your gray matter. Don’t monkey what your buddies at Homma and Scripta tell you to mimic.

    • Enrique

      –Then he claims that hes tolerant

      I am intolerant of racists and fascists. You have probably noticed that we are not too tolerant of Suomen Sisu, Suomalaisuuden liitto, and the Jussi Halla-aho gang. Teuvo Hakkarainen doesn’t rank to high nor do PS MPs like Reijo Tossavainen who rubber stamp what Halla-aho says.

  17. Hannu

    So you are intolerant and use “racism and facism” as scapegoat to ignore what they say so you dont have to reply.

    • Enrique

      Hannu, KRP and Supo have classified Suomen Sisu as a Nazi-spirited associaiton. What can you say about Juho Eerola who likes Benito Mussolini’s economic model or another PS called Teemu Lahtinen who likes the IKL? Are all these, as well as many other examples, “enriching” (as you like to put it) our democratic system?

      I found this interesting pin on Yooper in Crackerland http://mannikko.blogspot.com/: Don’t mistake fascism for patriotism.

  18. JusticeDemon

    vincebel

    Some groups have strong cultural background and habits but they keep them in privacy and nobody has any trouble with them.

    So your solution is don’t ask don’t tell?

    Jews like this are OK. They hide their heritage and fit in properly, so that we never have to know. The problem with Muslims is that they are too open about being different, so we have to take notice and take action.

  19. vincebel

    well theres a difference between being different and forcing people around to be different or forcing laws to change so its more like home.

    i have a muslim friend who comes for some barbeque sometimes. He just bring his own food (chicken or lamb) which is damned good and there is absolutely no trouble. This guy is an angel.

    One of his muslim friends came one day and started to make a scene because we were eating pork and he didnt want to put his lamb on the same grill as we used and we are evil people. well this one can eat alone in his garden i dont care. but hes not welcomed in my house anymore

    and its an example it would have been the same with any people from any cultural background. He is my guset in my house with my friends. I never forced him to come.

    see my point?

    am i racist or close minded?

    do u think i will be welcomed in china if i insult people who eat cats and dogs? of course i find that disgusting but what can i do? change the culture and laws ofChina? respect them (which doesnt mean i will eat cats and dogs)? or stay alone claiming that chinese people are crazy?

  20. JusticeDemon

    vincebel

    You did not have to make an issue of the dietary requirements of your guest’s guest. An intelligent and considerate host would have offered some alternative approach to cooking (such as using the indoor kitchen facilities) and explained that otherwise it was simply not possible to comply with requirements that had not been notified in advance.

    In a more general social context these intercultural squabbles remind me of the old story about someone who phones the police to complain about a neighbour’s indecent exposure:

    Caller: Please come quickly! There’s a naked man parading around in the garden next door. It’s awful!

    Officer: That sound serious! We’ll be over right away!

    Caller: Thank you officer!

    Puzzled officer in caller’s home: So where does he do this? I can’t see his garden from your window.

    Caller: Oh, but you can if you stand on the kitchen table and stick your head out of the window!

    If it bothers you to see a woman wearing a khimār or a man wearing a Kippah, then you don’t have to look.

  21. Hmmm

    “An intelligent and considerate host would have offered…”

    So in your eyes the story is more about an inconsiderate host than a rude guest? In my eyes, rather than questioning the intelligence of the host, I would expect the guest to adjust to the situation, after all the situation was not intentional. But that’s just me…

    “If it bothers you to see a woman wearing a khimār or a man wearing a Kippah, then you don’t have to look.”

    If it only were about such simple things. How about demands for separate praying breaks during work hours and furthermore demanding separate spaces for this? Such things have concrete consequences for the other parties involved. Then there have been calls for separate sharia law for muslims at least in Britain…

  22. vincebel

    Well i indeed offered some alternative cooking equipment to the first guest, who accepted them, also because he asked politely if he could use a pan for the lamb, where is this for that, if he can take a glass of water or juice because he doesnt drink beers or wine. And of course i was glad to help him because he asked politely without judging me or my friends. At the end we had lots of fun.

    The second one didnt even let me the time to be polite. He straight started with big talks about food, god, culture, blabla.

    And I have absolutely nothing about women wearing kippah or boudhist monks wearing orange saffron or sikhs having big beard. as long as they respect my ideas and cultures. and they dont force me to become like them or they dont ask different laws. same goes with the jeovah witnesses who tried to convince me every sunday about stuff that i respect but i dont believe.

    FYI my grand parents represent 3 nationalities from 3 continents and i myseld lived in many different countries with different culture. I did the effort to adapt in any of them even if i didnt agree sometimes with the local laws or culture.

  23. vincebel

    anyway lets stop this debate the guy was stupid whatever his nationality, culture, religion, age…

    he represent the very small proportion of people who refuse to adapt and want other to change. Some finnish people inside their own country are like that too.

    The problem is that some political parties will show this only guy and then the population starts to generalize and will affect the large group who did absolutely nothing wrong.

    like i said: a tree who falls makes much noise than a forest who grows.

  24. JusticeDemon

    Hmmm

    So in your eyes the story is more about an inconsiderate host than a rude guest?

    A bit of both, prior to the further details supplied in the last couple of postings. The key point is to accept diversity insofar as this respects fundamental rights and similarly tolerates diversity.

    Labour relations in Finland are largely determined by collectively bargaining. There are hundreds of express and implied religious and cultural elements set out in law and collective agreements, including bonuses for Sunday work and special arrangements for compassionate leave. The demands that you are referring to are essentially no different from any other workforce negotiating position. Considerate and intelligent managers seek to compromise between the expressed needs of employees and the requirements of business operations. If half of the factory workforce wants to down tools for two hours in the middle of the day to watch the national ice hockey team, then any manager would be wise to spend some time with the shop steward reorganising the work shifts to accommodate this demand if possible.

    People who play competitive football are bound by the laws of football, as prescribed by FIFA. These laws incorporate a dispute resolution system, and they can have material consequences for footballers that vary in severity according to the degree of professionalism involved. Professional footballers who seriously or persistently infringe the laws of the game can even lose their livelihood, and in football-related aspects the civil courts will rely on and not question the findings of the arbitration tribunals for football and for sport in general (e.g. TAS – CAS Lausanne). What is your fundamental objection to this system of separate law for footballers?

  25. Hmmm

    I’ll have to give a short reply as I’m in a hurry… I’m not objecting the separate football system but it is not comparable to the situation: nobody forces anyone to be a footballer whereas the social pressure to be “a good muslim” may be overwhelming… therefore the situation is hardly comparable.

  26. JusticeDemon

    Hmmm

    There are varying systems of law for individuals in diverse circumstances. Employment is largely governed by an independent collective bargaining system with its own dispute resolution system leading to the Labour Court. Football is governed by a centralised global administration with a dispute resolution system leading to CAS. The situation is essentially no different in Islam, Judaism and Roman Catholicism. The extent to which employment, football or active engagement in a religious tradition are perceived as voluntary is irrelevant. What matters is that these systems of law are respected within their respective scopes and that their local sovereignty is in turn respected by other systems.

    To give an example: the Labour Court will not and cannot rule on a question of whether the food in a restaurant is kosher, even though this may be the key point in a labour dispute (e.g. concerning the right of an employee to rescind the employment contract). Insofar as the employee was a restaurant worker, the Labour Court can only rule on a point of dispute concerning interpretation of the relevant collective agreement. When a kosher chef walks out because the employer has included a giraffe milk recipe in the menu, then the essence of the dispute and any claim for damages is a point to be settled in a rabbinical court. For this purpose, it does not necessarily even matter whether the chef or the employer consider themselves to be good Jews, and “social pressure” is irrelevant.

  27. Allan

    Iltalehti & its reporting of “news”…its not a piece of news when a dog bites the man. It is a piece of news when the man bites the dog.

Leave a Reply