Hijacking my picture and defaming me and Migrant Tales on the Internet (Part 2)

by , under Enrique

By Enrique Tessieri

Since Wednesday Migrant Tales and I personally have been harassed by persons from a website called Ylilauta that made it a point to defame and insult me publicly.  When I got in touch with the administrator, Tuomas Siitonen, and told him that I was being attacked again, he pleaded the First Amendment (freedom of speech).

“You wouldn’t want to interfere with free speech, would you?” he said.

It is odd and a pretty weak argument to claim that defaming a person on the Internet protected under free speech.

What about my free speech? What about my right to express myself on Migrant Tales without being intimidated and attacked by publishing where I work?

Siitonen says in an email : “Naturally, if they are spreading personal information such as phone numbers and private addresses, we can interfere with it because, well, we’ve got moral standards too. Internet isn’t serious business and shouldn’t interfere one’s personal life physically.”

Is it a coincidence that on Friday I gave a talk to a group of high school students in Vantaa about the role of the media in guaranteeing freedom of expression.

I pointed out to them that even if in the United States we take the First Amendment very seriously, there are some limitations. Some of these are defamation, causing panic, incitement to crime as well as other exceptions.

Having lived in Argentina during the so-called dirty war, when the country was ruled by a ruthless military regime during 1976-83, there were very clear limitations on freedom of expression imposed by the de facto government.

What is the difference between a military dictatorship that censors the media and one where social media lynch mobs roam the Internet anonymously in Klu Klux Klan robes? Not much except that in the former you could be thrown in jail, tortured and killed.

Apart from the latter example, the intimidation by these social media mobs is no different from a ruthless military dictatorship since the aim is the same: instill fear, hopelessness and self-censorship. They are, as well, a wake up call about the social illness that has inflicted our society.

Granted, Ylilauta may be ” one of the internet’s dirty toilets filled with shit and puke” as BlandaUpp pointed out. Even so, it is the same ogre in different form that roams our society hindering us from effectively drawing the line between what is acceptable and not acceptable in our society concerning racism.

Every thing that is written on Migrant Tales is done to help future generations so they may live in a society that is more acceptant and where racism and far-right ideology are clearly on the defensive.

After enduring these attacks to my person for what I write on this blog, I reported the matter to the police on Saturday.

There is more at stake now than just a free-for-all against me, but the right of every person (especially visible minorities)  in this country to feel secure and express himself or herself freely.

  1. eyeopener

    Hi Enrique.

    The freedom of speech, as all constitutional rights, everywhere in the world, is NOT an absolute right. This freedom is relative and limited by the responsibility of people for other people.

    Tuomas Siitonen ignores the INTENT-side of the First Amendment, hides behind the first part and therefore denies this individual responsibility. Including his responsibility. Maybe this attitude is the consequence of failed socialization. But also, maybe that the role models have supportive for the development of this arrogance. Who can tell!!

    It shows clearly how this site -including Siitonen- and other sites as well regard ANY person. A target that you can indiscriminately defame, insult, humiliate etc. whenever you want or feel a need to.

    Furthermore, this site allows people to write, commute about others without ANY dignity or respect. BlandaUpp is very right about this “garbage-can” approach towards nationals and/or foreigners.

    As I have said in an other place: the trend to declare constitutional right as absolute rights have been supported by many official organizations -public and private-. Or at least the trend has not denied or openly disagreed with. This failure to rectify “the absolute rights” approach prepares the seed-bed for uncontrolled “slur- and-slash” behavior in at least the Internet. It creates the feeling and the opinion that this understanding and subseuent behavior is right and acceptable.

    I have noticed that when these authors are approached in the same way and same vein they start to protest. Then they seem to be “hurt” or “humiliated”. But it happens and happened. Reactions from Laputis, Andy, MaryMekko and others speak for themselves.

    I am sorry that it happened to you. Remember it happened to me too! Despite this unforunate happening we must continue to de-mask and challenge these opinions openly. Migrant Tales -in my suspicion- must prepare for further attacks like in the Ylilauta website.

    Shame on these sites and whatever they say or preach but My Finland is International.

    • Migrant Tales

      Thank you eyeopener for your words of support. Unfortunately there will be more of these attacks. If there is something positive in this, it allows us to see that ogre that has inflicted our society.

      It is incredible that they hide under First Amendment but say nothing my right to express myself and not be attacked. Those who think that racism isn’t a problem in Finland, have more evidence of this social ill. Politicians, the media and sensible Finns must react to this threat.

      Another important matter in this struggle against hatred and racism in our society, we must stand united. This is crucial.

      I have said it many times and I will say it again: The more they hit us the stronger we grow.

  2. justicedemon

    Ylilauta is an anonymous forum that does not display messages with individual user names. The international section allocates fictitious names based on IP location. The site administrator maintains log files that are kept for varying periods, and the site includes the usual disclaimers.

    The site trawls for advertising revenues, though anyone with half a brain nowadays has installed a blocker to remove online advertisements. I suppose their advertisers either belong to, or are targeting those who have not done so.

    The intellectual powers of the site administrator may be gauged from the following gem of epähikke “humour”:

    Sisältö saattaa aiheuttaa pärinöitä, odottamatonta spudroilua, peeveellä keulimista tai meemien huutelua. On erittäin suositeltavaa että käännyt 360 astetta ja poistut paikalta.

    This brings to mind a certain scene from Last Action Hero

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL135uL2XZA&w=594&h=365]

  3. BlandaUpp

    I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this happened after you spoke to the high school students at all Enrique. Places like Ylilauta are filled with high schoolers and often younger kids who have grown up in this “chan” culture where extreme racism is normal. They are a product of our society and parents are ultimately responsible for their kids’ behaviour.

  4. eyeopener

    Hi Hassan.

    Welcome to this thread.

    Could you explain your question? I think that my position in this is clear!! What obscures your mind??

  5. Tuomas Siitonen

    Our free speech grants everyone the rights to impress themselves and even to go to as far as insulting other people. As justicedemon said, there aren’t just couple of insidres on our site, there are over a million unique visitors per month in Ylilauta. As our choice, we have removed all possiblities to use usernames in our international and random boards, thus an user named “Jonne” consists of all Finnish people posting to our international board, as I’ve explained in multiple e-mails we’ve exchanged.

    Imageboards are the heart of “Anonymous”. Anyone who’s used imageboards for few years knows that Anonymous isn’t an organized group of mastermind hackers, Anonymous is more like a collective group of random people from all around the world, whose users hide behind the anonymity. This is why people don’t realize they’re responsible for what they say. An average poster is a 18-year-old person living with his mother and pouring the last bits of his anarchy to internet, because he doesn’t like arguing with his mom.

    But why do we allow people insulting others and won’t cencor it? Because we don’t believe that internet is serious business. Naturally, when one gets offended by our vast amount of kids and young adults posting there, one can file a police report. We work in tight and friendly co-operation with the Finnish police and have helped the officials with over 50 cases during the one-year perioid in which Ylilauta has existed. One investigator of the Keskusrikospoliisi told to us: “It’s good that a site like Ylilauta exists, so we can easily pick out the rotten apples before they do actually anything bad.”

    When our community is this collective, you can’t believe how much good things our users actually do. Our users have lifted up an article originally written by Iltalehti, where a young, mentally handicapped adult was forbidden an entry from a restaurant. Because of Ylilauta, the person, Kalle Havumäki, is nowadays widely known and respected. Sure, people make fun of him, but so do they make fun of the parliament, welfare system, national railroads (VR), white people, asian people, people who drive BMWs and even seagulls. It’s just innocent fun, but some invidials take it a bit too far sometimes.

    As to your demand of an apology from us, the administration of Ylilauta: we simply don’t understand why we are to apologize for posts made by our users. It’s just like a Finn running around forums saying “I’m so sorry you have to see this, I’m so ashamed of being a Finn”.

    • Migrant Tales

      Tuomas Siitonen, welcome to Migrant Tales. The welcome you will receive here will be more civil than the one I received at Ylilauta.

      Let’s see what our bloggers say about your views.

      Personally defamation is not free speech. Defamation and harassment are things used to intimidate free speech. The only problem is that we’re not easily intimidated on Migrant Tales, especially when a social media lynch mob is used to attack my person.

      But seriously: Is it ok to call me a pedophile, hijack my picture and place sexual organs next to my face and call me the n-word? Is that what you call free speech? Is that what you are defending?

    • Migrant Tales

      Tuomas, thank you for dropping by and giving your opinions. My experience with Ylilauta forces me to treat your sincerity and that of the sites with a ten-foot pole.

      Most of the comments made yesterday from Ylilauta (there are over 100) were pranks by your bloggers. They gave some baloney about how sorry they were but that was only a ploy to get in our blog, or pass the troll detector. There are comments on your site that I have snapshots of that show that this was the case.

      If you are so interested in free speech, why do you work with the police? I think this is odd and shows me again that you don’t really get what free speech is.

      As a journalist, one of the most important things I do when I have sources is defend them. Granted, Ylilauta is something totally different from a newspaper or other media publication. But to be ready to work with the police shows and throws away your “free speech argument out of the window.” It speaks as well many volumes where you are coming from.

      So you are doing this for free… Welcome to the club! What do you think we’re doing here? Nobody gets paid a cent and we do everything out of passion. What gives some of us that strength? Our mission statement: Migrant Tales is a blog that debates some of the salient issues facing the immigrant and minority community in Finland. It aims to be a voice for those whose views and situation are understood poorly and heard faintly by the media, politicians and public.

      In other words, we are a hand-on-heart operation. Contrary to Ylilauta, we make sure things don’t get out of hand.

      Important point: I am getting threats from your site. One Argentinean blogger said he’d give a Finnish Ylilauta blogger a knife to kill me.

  6. eyeopener

    Hi Tuomas

    I am afraid to conclude that you are extremely naive. The Ylirauta site is a commercial site that allows for making money from advisers (no problem with that) but at the same time allowing people to communicate the most absurd, defaming and insulting outcries.

    Hiding behind the Keskusrikospoliisi is just a justification. Does Keskusrikospoliisi pay Ylirauta for the job you are doing for them?? Could become an interesting discussion in Parliament for the Ministers of Justice and Internal Affairs.

    I wonder when people start making fun of you? In the way you seem to downplay seriousness you will do no nothing. But I am quite sure that when it gets hurting you in the moneystreams You will not like “that fun of others”.

    You seem to forget that when you enable communication flows you just can’t run away from your responsibility to uphold the respect and dignity of communications. You defend yourself with claiming the First Amendment (freedom of free speech). You havenot reacted to my comment on the responsibility of the users for other people. A provider can’t – in my sincere opinion- look away and say: “It’s their responsibility”!!

    In my opinion Ylirauta (you therfore) owes Mr. Tesseri an apology. Furthermore Ylirauta (you)should consider a better surveillance on the threads Ylirauta (you) allow to be commuted. As I have said elsewhere: the people or organizations -public and/or private- that allow these “slur-and-slash” communications contribute to belief that such behavior is right and acceptable. Even more: when the same people and organizations refuse to take responsibility by either denial or refusal to aaccept what happened is wrong especially young people will become indoctrinated and poisoned.

    The essence of being in business is taking a corporate responsibility as well. I can predict what will happen to the financing of your website when your attitude towards communications through you site become more and widely known.

    Perhaps your “brothers-in-arms” will support you. Companies with a higher exteem of themselves will drop out. Bye bye money!!

    • Migrant Tales

      We have had close to a hundred people who will not get approval to come to this blog because of the damage they have caused to my public reputation.

      Here is one of them called Joni Debt: “Migrant Tales, nothing of that would’ve happened if YOU wouldn’t have started this mess. You were called a mudface in the internet? That doesn’t seem like a big deal. You turned a small thing into your “worst nightmare” all by yourself. You are also wasting the resources of our police because of tiny things like this, and that’s not ok.”

      OK, Joni, if that is your real name, I started this whole thing, right? LOL. But these types of comments are pretty normal. You don’t know if they are pulling your leg or not. This one probably is.

      Here’s another one who calls himself Joni justifying slander by blaming Migrant Tales for denying Finns their identity. LOL. Hey, I AM a Finn!

      Here is the comment by him: “Hey Migrant Tales? Is it OK to deny the existence of the Finnish ethnicity? To me this is as offending as denying the holocaust! Why you have written such hate speech in your blog?”

      I will count to ten and let it go.

  7. Rocker

    Kiitos Tuomas.

    On what do you base your profiling of the typical Ylilautalainen? They write differently on some other sites.

  8. eyeopener

    Hi Tuomas.

    Maybe for your insight on responsibility of media I will give you a suggestion. Read: Goldhagen (1996) Hitler’s Wiiling Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust. Especially the role of media in preparing the seedbed of accepted behavior for racism, anti-semitism and the killingfields. Brain-opener. Another one would be Jonathan Littell*s The Kindly Ones. In case you are in the mood to defend yourself again. Learn it from this central character.

    And if that is not enough. Look at the documentary: The Wave. For the idea that you can justify yourself by “I didn’t know”. You have made a choice. And from that you will not be able to run away and say those words again.

    A good read and watch!!

    Hear from you.

  9. Tuomas Siitonen

    I’m not saying that it’s okay to call someone a mudface or even call anyone else by names, we’re just not cencoring it, thus leaving the responsiblity to the writer. With free speech comes the responsiblity, but it’s not our responsiblity as the administration, it’s the users’ responsiblity of what they say. As this really is imageboard, the messages won’t stay there for too long. After a certain amount of messages have been sent to the board, the topic will disappear by itself. This is why we won’t cencor stuff. It would be a totally different story if the posts were made to a board where the content would stay for weeks, but when it’s posted to a board such as /int/, it will disappear in a matter of hours.

    Let’s imagine a hypotethic situation where a customer insults another customer in a supermarket. You can’t really blame the supermarket staff for it.

    As we get so much posts, we seriously cannot enforce or premoderate every single one – that’d destroy the idea of imageboards. Ylilauta is a Finnish follower of 4chan, on which I suggest you research more cases such as these.

    It was said that I’d get a better reception here, which is hardly true. People with different ages communicate with different ways. Whereas adults discuss as “naive”, “ignorant” etc., kids and young adults use the same terminology as “fag”, “mudface” and so on. It’s nothing personal, I would believe, it’s just that it’s their only way of comminication.

    And as a person who uses his own name in front of hundreds of thousands anonymous, I’ve got my share too. People have been calling me names and even calling my home late at night with threats to kill me. People have even come behind my front door with such intentions. And yet I’m still here, helping the owner of Ylilauta without a monthly salary. I’ve reported such cases to the officials and the situations have been sorted propely, currently few ones being investigated.

    It’s not rare that if someone is being called by a name. It happens every day. Every single day, many times a day. We simply do not have enough resurces to remove all, nor would we want to. What we want is to people talk free. If we were to remove insulting posts, ten more would pop up. That’s just how imageboards work.

    And what if someone calls another one a pedophile? Well the accused can make a police report. Will his life be ruined if another one calls him a pedophile? No, because that would actually require vast amounts of proof on the matter, our users are well aware of what claims without proper sources are.

    I’m only answering here because I wish to educate you, who’ve never seen an imageboard, of how they work. There are hundreds of imageboards such as Ylilauta in the internet, we can’t really claim to be that original.

    Ylilauta is like a toilet wall which is repainted every night. It’s really just not that serious.

  10. Tuomas Siitonen

    And as a last point, I would be glad if you would allow people from Ylilauta to express their opinion here also. Most of their well-thought and propely explained opinions have not been released here at all, I’m afraid.

  11. Rocker

    Thanks Tuomas.

    On what do you base your profiling of the typical Ylilautalainen? They write differently on some other sites.

  12. eyeopener

    Hi Tuomas.

    Ylirauta (you) run this imagineboard and earn money with it. Right!! This is a deliberate choice that has its consequences. You don’t need to educate me on this. Thanks for trying but you are too late.

    It’s your choice and you are responsible of not acting. You can’t just hide behind “This is how mage-boards work”.

    Your example :Let’s imagine a hypotethic situation where a customer insults another customer in a supermarket. You can’t really blame the supermarket staff for it.
    The insult is not the supermarket’s. But the supermarket could act on refusing the insulting customer to be welcome in the supermarket again. In this way the supermarket makes clear that such behavior is not acceptable there.You can do the same thing but you decided not top do. That makes you co-responsible.

    I don’t need to research other image-boards. I deal with this case. The existence of other boards -worse or better- is not the issue. Neither is the idea of image-boards. We talk here about yours!!

    Naive and arrogant is hurtful?? Like mudface or pedofile??

    You got your piece of the cake too?? But you don’t care. You just say: “It’s their way of communication”. No, my dear Tuomas, it’s their money and nothing else. You try to build yourself a defence-screen to allow yourself to earn money on the “garbage-cans” ot “piss-walls”.

    How would you know what the effects of insults are?? In all certainty you would not have even the slightest idea. Why should you care. Money, money…..it’s so funny, in a strange man’s world. A piss-wall owner. Really funny!!

  13. Tuomas Siitonen

    Ylilauta doesn’t make money like you think it does, eyeopener. Most of the income goes to pay the hosting expenses. The extra money goes to a bank account, from where we invest to new hosting equipment when the old fails. As I said, I do this volunteerly; I receive no salary for answering here on a sunday afternoon, nor do I receive any whilist administrating Ylilauta.

    But if you are not going to educate yourself about the matter you’re arguing about, I have nothing to say to you. A proper argument is based on facts, not beliefs and ignorance about other people’s opinions.

    If comments like eyeopener’s are let through here and not proper and well-thought comments defending Ylilauta, I won’t stay here longer. I do understand and appreciate Enriques passion for the matter and it’s the only reason I’m here; to give you a better understanding from our point of view.

  14. eyeopener

    Hi Tuomas.

    Glad you think I am ignorant 🙂 What are facts, my dear Tuomas?? Yours or mine?? Define “fact” for me please!! Explain and define “If comments like eyeopener” Do you want to hear only your opinion like a parrot?? “proper and well-thought” What the heck do you mean?? Do you have criteria and indicators for “proper” and “well-thought”?.

    Well, if you have those I would like to hear from you.

    Running away because you can’t make yourself clear or even apologize feel free to leave. But you lost your case anyway.

  15. Mark

    Tuomas

    As we get so much posts, we seriously cannot enforce or premoderate every single one – that’d destroy the idea of imageboards. Ylilauta is a Finnish follower of 4chan, on which I suggest you research more cases such as these.

    I accept your explanation and I personally have no problem with your policy, which I think is reasonable. I think premoderation would be impractical and unworkable, in the sense of weighing up the right to offend against the right to be offended is extremely difficult to negotiate in practice, and any power that you apply to protect the vulnerable can also be used by extremists to silence their critics. Generally, excessive censorship has the effect of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

    I think that trying to decide what is genuinely ‘offensive’ is a length process and any practical policy of censorship would of necessity ere on the side of caution and therefore you would be forced to cut out anything ‘offensive’. This would certainly limit quite ordinary ‘free speech’, as someone could take offence against an argument highlighting a human rights abuse, for example, because it takes place in the name of nationalism, religion, or ethnicity.

    I imagine it is also unworkable in the sense that you do not have the time to monitor all threads and responses.

    The right to free expression has, at least in recent decades, been subject to various restrictions that e.g. protect the public peace, that protect the reputation of others from defamation or libel, or protect governments or organisations from misuse of information that is either an industrial secret or a government secret.

    in this case, comments about Enrique were not just offensive, but also constituted defamation. I think a sensible policy in those circumstances is that you remove those comments upon being notified and that you ban their IP. I think this is both practical, workable, and reasonable.

  16. justicedemon

    Tuomas

    Thank you for your responses.

    I hope we are on the same page concerning freedom of expression. The Finnish Constitution** recognises a universal right to express, publish and receive information, opinions and other communications without prior censorship, though it allows some statutory limitations on this right where these are essential to protect children from exposure to certain images.

    What the Constitution most certainly does not do is absolve individuals from civil and criminal liability for the communications that they broadcast. In other words, we are free to say whatever we like, but we must also face the consequences. Freedom of expression does not confer immunity to charges and claims based on individual or collective defamation or other abuses of that freedom (unfounded emergency calls, incitement to riot and so on).

    This liability also applies even when the speaker remains anonymous. Indeed, it is a typical feature of crime that perpetrators seek to remain anonymous in order to avoid the consequences of criminal liability. Criminal defamation nevertheless remains a crime, even when the criminal cannot be identified and, for example, it is still a public order offence to shout “fire!” in a crowded theatre, even when this is achieved by concealing a ghetto blaster under one of the seats and slipping away quietly before the shout is heard.

    Ylilauta provides a service that enables abusers of the right to freedom of expression to escape the consequences of their behaviour.

    Now ordinarily we would understand such a role by analogy with that of a getaway driver in an armed robbery. Even though the getaway driver does not wield the sawn-off shotgun and may never touch the swag, there is no question that the getaway driver is an accomplice in the offence as a whole. The getaway driver provides a specialised technical service that enables the armed robbers to remain anonymous and thereby avoid the consequences of the crime. Does this sound familiar?

    In Ricky’s case, the crucial question is the extent to which you are an accomplice in any offence of defamation.

    I accept that there is a place and a case for online anonymity, and I respect the example of service providers like Johan Helsingius in highlighting this place and arguing this case. It also seems to me that there is nothing wrong in principle with the basic service model of Ylilauta. Where I have difficulty is in accepting your attitude to take-down notices. In trivialising Ricky’s take-down notice, I think you may easily become an accomplice to any offence concerned.

    Your response that messages do not remain on an imageboard for long is equivalent to the response of a printing press owner that a print run of defamatory posters will soon end, or the response of a public broadcaster that a defamatory programme will soon be over.

    It is my understanding that the SMS messages that scroll across the screen on MTV3 and other all-night broadcasting channels are premoderated, and there is famously a seven-second delay in live radio broadcasting of phone-in shows. These are examples of due diligence shown by broadcasters of transient media for content that lasts for only a few seconds. In the case of Ylilauta we are talking about much longer public exposure of defamatory or otherwise criminal content. In view of this, it seems to me that an immediate response to a take-down notice is the least that you can do.

    ** References to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution are irritatingly irrelevant to Finland.

  17. BlandaUpp

    What’s been happening on Ylilauta as far as racist language is concerned, once again reinforces the point that some members of our society definitely need integration courses on how to live on planet earth in a Globalised world in 2012.

    Contrary to what Tuomas Siitonen thinks, internet is indeed serious business. The racial hatred that our country’s young people spread on the internet has consequences in the real world. What they say online spills over into how they act in the real world! How do you think people in the Middle East, Africa or South America, some of the major markets for our technology exports, would react if they knew it’s okay in Nokialand to call people like them racist names?

    4chan closed their news board because it became a recruiting ground for far right Neo-Nazis and Stormfront types. They went as far as banning any person who used the word “Jew” in any form for a long while.

    Why don’t you make a statement by banning racial slurs and at the least, replacing the word with something else?

    Freedom has its limits.

  18. Mark

    BlandaUpp

    The racial hatred that our country’s young people spread on the internet has consequences in the real world. What they say online spills over into how they act in the real world! How do you think people in the Middle East, Africa or South America, some of the major markets for our technology exports, would react if they knew it’s okay in Nokialand to call people like them racist names?

    You are absolutely right. Following the introduction of tougher legislation against racism in the UK, physical attacks went down as convictions went up, to the point where it was no longer acceptable in the public domain to make inciting remarks in regard to race.

    Whether the same can be achieved with religious identity is not so clear, but what is clear is that tolerance is an exercise of conscience, knowing that what one is saying about a group is slanderous and reveals one to have bigoted views and to resist that. What this forum talked about here does is the complete opposite; it attempts to celebrate and glorify such bigotry. Free speech can only work when operating within the bounds of good conscience. When that conscience has broken down, one has to seriously consider the bounds of free speech again.

    A forum that allows people to break the laws of defamation, or racial or ethnic slander and protects their anonymity is skirting very close to illegality. That same ‘defence’ of claiming absolutely no responsibility while all the while promoting law breaking has broken down in the case of P2P file-sharing of copyright content. I cannot see how this is any different. While in the case of the media organisations, I am appalled at what they have done in the name of copyright protection, in the case of defending people’s basic rights, I think the argument is far less complicated and most people would reject the idea that an internet forum would not be bound by any of the legal restrictions placed on e.g. print media.

    Simply expressing views that were unpleasant, insulting is one thing—we have to tolerate that in the name of free speech—but breaking the law is another.

    The content may cause unexpected pärinöitä, spudroilua, peeveellä keulimista or meemien huutelua. It is highly recommended that you leave the station and the walking 360 degrees

    Did these kids go to school? An about turn is 180 degrees, not 360! Mark shakes his head….!

  19. D4R

    Tuomas Siitonen: “It’s good that a site like Ylilauta exists, so we can easily pick out the rotten apples before they do actually anything bad.”

    Or poison more of a youngsters minds, so we can have more racists. and this makes the racism chain to longer.

  20. D4R

    Tuomas Siitonen, your excuse is kind of a lame. So your saying, when a someone for instance threatens the life of an immigrant in your chatrooms it’s a innocent fun? i dont think it’s a innocent fun to the person it targets, maybe to you yes, but you have to consider and look it a different perpective of what perhaps the person it targes feels about it. I believe when thigs like this happens i your chat rooms, be it a kind living with his mom or an adult oing it behind pc, it’s your responsible to get involved it and prevent all type of wrongdom. People can eally take it from pc to the streets, we have seen it in the case of breivik. before he even done anything he used to lounge in a racist sites, and the result we already know.

  21. D4R

    Eyeopener: I wonder when people start making fun of you? In the way you seem to downplay seriousness you will do no nothing. But I am quite sure that when it gets hurting you in the moneystreams You will not like “that fun of others”.

    Well said:) …..maybe we need to open a chatroom specifically for **making fun of Tuomas and his children** how would he react then?

  22. Tuomas Siitonen

    D4R: Ylilauta isn’t a racist community nor does it endorce it. Ylilauta’s users mock every culture the same. Finns, Swedes, Norwegians, American… When it’s this free and boundless, it’s the quite opposite of racism, isn’t it? Everyone gets their share of vulgarities. If we’d be protecting a culture (or a person) from being offended, we’d actually lift the one thing we’re protecting on a pedestal, thus provocating people who don’t belong into that group. That’d be “racism” against all the other cultures.

  23. Tuomas Siitonen

    Also, D4R: if you would’ve read all my comments through, you could’ve found out that I’ve got my share of the bashing too.

    My second comment on this topic says this:
    “And as a person who uses his own name in front of hundreds of thousands anonymous, I’ve got my share too. People have been calling me names and even calling my home late at night with threats to kill me. People have even come behind my front door with such intentions. And yet I’m still here, helping the owner of Ylilauta without a monthly salary. I’ve reported such cases to the officials and the situations have been sorted propely, currently few ones being investigated.”

    But if there actually are threats to harm someone physically in Ylilauta or if someone is spreading phone numbers and/or other personal information, please let me know through Ylilauta’s mail. Those are the kind of messages we will interfere with when asked.

  24. Mark

    Ylilauta’s users mock every culture the same.

    I would question this. For example, taking the piss out of Finnish drinking habits is on another level to constantly connection particular nationalities with rape, for example. Unless, of course you are going to talk about the 5 bus loads of Finnish women murdered by their spouse or former spouse in Finland every 10 years. Does that get discussed? Does the fact that rape was legal in marriage in Finland only up to ten years ago? Does the fact that rape by native Finns of Finnish women generally involves a person known to them and therefore report thresholds are significantly higher than for rapes by a stranger? I’m sure you discuss all this stuff in an open and honest way, equally for all nationalities?

    Finns, Swedes, Norwegians, American… When it’s this free and boundless, it’s the quite opposite of racism, isn’t it?

    Well, not necessarily. If the majority are slagging off other nationalities and only a few are being self-critical towards Finnishness (as opposed to Saminess or Finnish Swedishness) then the conclusion might well be that they are simply xenophobic at best, and probably racist at worst if the crap reserved for African, Arab or Asian is of a different order again.

    Seems to me that you are quite happy to generalise about your users as a means of hiding any real mecance ‘in the muddle’. Dangerous stuff, Tuomas…..

    If we’d be protecting a culture (or a person) from being offended, we’d actually lift the one thing we’re protecting on a pedestal, thus provocating people who don’t belong into that group. That’d be “racism” against all the other cultures.

    Wow, your understanding of racism is well, profound….ly lacking.

    If that culture is routinely receiving the absolute worst of the comments, then it is already ‘on a pedastal’. By your own reasoning, then I assume you would acknowledge that that was therefore racism?

    I don’t think you can protect people from being offended and that is not the point. What you could attempt to do is discourage people from being racist. Poking fun at national stereotypes is probably largely harmless, I agree, but the attacks on Enrique went well beyond that. Well beyond.

    Seems to me that you are either deliberately turning a blind eye to the activity on the site, or, equally culpable, choosing to downplay its seriousness or its possible implications.

    D4R pretty summed up the possible negative effects:

    Or poison more of a youngsters minds, so we can have more racists. and this makes the racism chain to longer.

    There is something about racism that perpetuates a sense of group belonging. It’s tied to a lot of macho crap, as the historical link with skin heads and thugs adequately demonstrates. You know, I have no problem with irreverance! But there is a big difference between attacking society’s pious norms and picking out certain groups for racial abuse. Only a fool or a charlatan would pretend not to know the difference.

  25. Tuomas Siitonen

    Mark: our users are cynical about fellow Finns. Our users bash other Finns for their “classical” stereotypes of beating their wives when they’re drunk. In Ylilauta, Finland is one of the countries laughed at most; our “spurdo” and mindless spamming in the internet has caused is this bad fame – if someone accuses that Finns are wifebeaters in Ylilauta, we’ll let them, and most likely we’ll laugh with them. It’s dark humour and dark humour’s what Ylilauta is about.

    Claiming it to be racist is just plain ignorant, especially when you apparently haven’t followed Ylilauta for more than few days. We actually do bash everyone, including ourselves.

  26. D4R

    Tuomas: Mark: our users are cynical about fellow Finns. Our users bash other Finns for their “classical” stereotypes of beating their wives when they’re drunk. In Ylilauta, Finland is one of the countries laughed at most; our “spurdo” and mindless spamming in the internet has caused is this bad fame – if someone accuses that Finns are wifebeaters in Ylilauta, we’ll let them, and most likely we’ll laugh with them. It’s dark humour and dark humour’s what Ylilauta is about.

    Claiming it to be racist is just plain ignorant, especially when you apparently haven’t followed Ylilauta for more than few days. We actually do bash everyone, including ourselves.

    So, you’re saying that, racism in your chatrooms is a humor to you and other Finns huh? i want to ask you one question, is’t humor to people who’re being dissed ethnically? answer please.

  27. D4R

    Tuomas you’re a liar for speaking other peoples, that they don’t get offended when someone makes fun of their race or ethnicity in your chatrooms.

  28. Tuomas Siitonen

    D4R: for the love of god, please learn to actually comprehend what you’ve read.

    It’s not racism if everyone is doing the same to everyone equally. Right now there are several threads in Ylilauta which insult Finns for being wifebeaters and sucking at politics, being creedy people who do not want to help fellow countries. But it’s okay. We’re not claiming it’s racism. It’s just dark humour and we laugh when someone insults us, just the same as we laugh when insulting them in return.

    If we’d pinpoint that “you can’t say bad things about that country”, it’d be unfair towards other ethnical groups. And giving other ethnical groups lower privigles is plainly enforcing racism.

    To a person who’s new to internet, Ylilauta isn’t a nice place. That’s why you don’t have to browse it. Leave the opinions to themselves and ignore them. If you want harmony and fun, I suggest Disney’s website. I’ve heard they’ve got new fun and educative games in there.

    This is the last comment I shall leave in this blog due to completely ignorant users such as D4R and no proper comments let through for the people who actually defend Ylilauta. If you wish to proceed discussing the matter with me or other people, you’re always welcome to create a thread in our /int/ or proceed discussing the matters in the topics already existing.

    And because every cool person has a last line, this shall be mine:

    Racism will exist as long as there are people who want to give more privigles to the ethnical groups than to natives. Equal rights for everyone means that everyone can say whatever they want about the other group, as long they’re not actual threats.

    • Migrant Tales

      –Racism will exist as long as there are people who want to give more privigles to the ethnical groups than to natives. Equal rights for everyone means that everyone can say whatever they want about the other group, as long they’re not actual threats.

      Thank you Tuomas for reinforcing what we already knew.

  29. justicedemon

    Tuomas

    This is the last comment I shall leave in this blog due to completely ignorant users

    So I guess that means you are deliberately ignoring my query about your take-down policy.

  30. D4R

    Tuomas: We’re not claiming it’s racism. It’s just dark humour and we laugh when someone insults us, just the same as we laugh when insulting them in return.

    Well Tuomas, i am dark skin toned humanbeing and i would highly be offended if i saw someone calling black people the N word

  31. BlandaUpp

    Tuomas

    You say: “It’s not racism if everyone is doing the same to everyone equally.”

    That’s where the problem lies. By following your own logic, I don’t ever see threads on your forum where black or brown people or Muslims are saying racist things about white people so therefore when it is constantly done towards these minority groups in our society on a daily basis, IT IS RACISM!

  32. makeadifference

    D4R

    Do you think your comments are that good, do they deserve extra credit? Or why are you making fun of Hassan? Shouldn’t you be taking English classes?

    • Migrant Tales

      makeadifference, why don’t you cool down? I can understand perfectly well what he’s saying. Moreover, he’s got guts to say what he has to say on this forum.

  33. Mark

    Tuomas

    I think it’s great that you have come here and that you make an effort to explain your attitudes and approach. You are kind of the jackasses of the politically correct world if I get you right.

    It would all be fucking great if it wasn’t for the fact that that for every pumpkin clown that just wants to piss all over the turf and outdo his mate with the best insult, there is another that thinks ‘hey, these guys are telling it like it really is!’

    It’s not racism if everyone is doing the same to everyone equally.

    Hey, welcome to reality, pal, but it ain’t equal. Racism is carried out mostly by those in power over those that ain’t got any. Do you also think that everyone just stole from each other it wouldn’t be theft? Do you think that if I punched myself in the face first that I could then punch in the face and that would make it legal? Do you think that as long as you allow someone to ‘rape’ you that you can rape someone else? Just how far will you push this fucking nonsense, Tuomas?

    As D4R said, there aren’t blacks there giving it large to the whities. I guess the whities take it on themselves to slag themselves off and then that gives them the right to slag off the mudfaces, eh!

    Basically what you are saying is that if you refuse to take it seriously, it cannot possibly be serious. Except that people do take it seriously. You blind yourself to the hatreds, the bitterness and the huge distortions that people create ‘in the name of humour’. I’ll tell you this, the point of humour is to get people to laugh at their own failures and stupidities, not to be a collective bully machine against the newcomer.

    These are ‘real’ opinions for many people, but they would normally not have a forum because socialisation has taught people that these things are wrong. But hey, we have all nick a few MP3s, eh? There isn’t much chance of getting caught, is there? We’ll download a film or two when no-ones watching…everyone’s doing it, it can’t be wrong, can it? It’s not really theft, even though you get something without paying for it. The original is still there. I wonder if people who make counterfeit money tell themselves the same thing – we didn’t take the original, just made some copies for our own use.

    I can see exactly where your morality begins and ends, Tuomas – with what you can get away with. And this forum of yours is saying you can get away with racism and with defamation and playing the jackass trolls world fucking championships!

    It’s just dark humour and we laugh when someone insults us, just the same as we laugh when insulting them in return.

    This is generally how a bully defends being a bully – it’s just a joke! But go ahead, ignore us, we’re just the partypoopers! One day you really will grow up and realise the world is not a fucking joke, especially for those that have to live with racism. Maybe then you will realise that it’s actually cleverer to make jokes that do not offend a huge part of your audience, it’s smarter and more of a challenge to mix humour with conscience, because tearing things down is what fucking 2-year olds do because it’s the easiest way to show off your power over the world. Building something up that is worthwhile, and using humour to do it, now that’s a challenge. I wonder when you’ll decide that that’s something worth spending your talent on.

  34. makeadifference

    Migrant Tales

    You said that he knows what he talks about.

    I expected an apology that he insulted 1,5 million Finns with his ”bad” English. Numskulls or what was it?

    • Migrant Tales

      makeadifference, chill out and go with the flow. What about your “atrocious” arguments? Shouldn’t you respond in kind?

  35. D4R

    makeadifference: D4R

    Do you think your comments are that good, do they deserve extra credit? Or why are you making fun of Hassan? Shouldn’t you be taking English classes?

    As long as you understand my massege that’s fine. 🙂

  36. D4R

    You’re not going to get no apology mr makeadifference or should i say mrs. You’re so arrogant, you need to cool down with that spell checking.

  37. Hassan

    eyeopenor

    You don’t really see your own (eye) splinter.

    you have said, “Let’s kill Soini!!”. ”Get your pampers wet, my little troll!!
    just trying to make you a BIG BAG OF SHIT a”

    And in one recent link, you said as well something like, you are the lousiest or was it the laziest in the world. Perhaps both.

    • Migrant Tales

      Hassan, why do you insult? It’s not a cool way to fuel debate unless you want to turn people off.

  38. Rocker

    Migrant Tales and Sasu

    The link evaporated so I put it here.

    there were a few questions that you let go unanswered.

    Statistically multiculturalism alienates foreign investments, examples Belgium, Sweden and the Netherlands the lowest figures in EU by far. Denmark 9th, how do you see this? It is against Mirant’s reasoning that Denmark is not attracting foreign investment. Besides they are also outside of Euro.

    Your version of the 10 step programme. Gratitude was nr 1 priority the Danish parliament to affirm on immigrants so they stop committing crime. Sasu said there is no need for immigrants to feel gratitude.

    There are around five EU countries that have lower GDP/capita than Czech republic and few lower than Slovenija outside the East-bloc. If you look at this how Sasu probably did then you can say that Czech citizens don’t go to these lower GDP-countries, nor the the East-bloc countries so where do they go? The rest 17 Eu countries? Expertti countries?

  39. Hassan

    Migrant Tales

    You said,

    Nope, welcome to Migrant Tales. If you know of our blog and have any idea our policy, we don’t censor anyone unless the thread is outright racist and insults other groups.

    My aim was to wake up eyeopenor with direct quotations. You find them insulting but you don’t take them away.

  40. makeadifference

    D4R

    You do not need to apologize of me but perhaps a few hundred thousand other Finns. So we are free to express that Migrant Tales have core people who despise Finns.

    Can I conclude that you are bitter, one who wants to insult a big part of Finns with your clumpsy statements? You call other people liars but are you either liar or just unaware when it comes to Finnish politics?

    • Migrant Tales

      makeadifference, your language and approach leaves a lot to be desired. The “despise” term before the Finn is a typical whining stance from the anti-immigration camp.

      Grow up!

      I haven’t used it on Migrant Tales but you probably know on Hommaforum they kick out bloggers for a few weeks to chill out. What do you think?

  41. D4R

    makeadifference: You do not need to apologize of me but perhaps a few hundred thousand other Finns. So we are free to express that Migrant Tales have core people who despise Finns.

    Can I conclude that you are bitter, one who wants to insult a big part of Finns with your clumpsy statements? You call other people liars but are you either liar or just unaware when it comes to Finnish politics?

    First of all my massage was aimed to you and the likes of you, i was merely talking about you, the ones who constantly attack immigrants and belittle their problems in non accepting Finnish society.

  42. D4R

    makeasifference, you resort on name calling, that’s kind of a weak move of you dont you think? why don’t you grow up and have a civil discussion.

    • Migrant Tales

      –It was directed to the conversation where you called PS and their voters numskulls.

      I never used the term “numbskull.” That was a famous term used by Moe of the Three Stooges when balling out Curly.

  43. makeadifference

    Kokoomus and Keskusta are also high on crime, so I simply concluded that they are also numskulls with D4R’s reasoning. Quickly counted 1,5 million Finns are numskulls.

    • Migrant Tales

      –Quickly counted 1,5 million Finns are numskulls.

      makeadifference, you sure are quick with the “kansa tietää” baloney. If I added the PS would you say that this blog “insulted” 2 million Finns?

      What is it that irritates you: honest open debate by Finns with international backgrounds and immigrants? I guess that is what it is.

      A word of advice: This country never did and never will belong to you. This country belongs to all those that live here.

  44. Mark

    makesNOdifference

    So we are free to express that Migrant Tales have core people who despise Finns.

    Yep, free to express it, but that doesn’t make it true. I love Finns. I’m married to one and my kids are Finns and the majority of my close friends are Finns. I work with Finns and I play with Finns. Generally speaking, I admire Finland as a country, it’s political and social achievements and it’s ‘personality’. By and large, though, I speak as I find, and I have found some Finns to be ignorant, racist, stupid and dishonest. However, I do not consider that a problem of Finns, but just the normal variation that you get in any population. Likewise, different countries at different times face different challenges. Some of the issues that Finland faces were faced by the UK some decades ago. Politicians have made many mistakes when it comes to dealing with potential problems of immigration and indeed also other ‘native-born’ social problems. I don’t blame Finns for the problems that exist in immigration and I do not blame the immigrants. I recognise that solutions come when both parties approach the problem honestly, positively and constructively.

    Can I conclude that you are bitter, one who wants to insult a big part of Finns with your clumpsy statements? You call other people liars but are you either liar or just unaware when it comes to Finnish politics?

    Truth is MND is that people can choose to take offence merely to try to score points in an argument. You and us, the same. It’s all too easy to deliberately misunderstand, but when it becomes systematic, then it is not a conversation any more, it’s an ideological battle. Many of these problems cannot and will not be solved by such ideological battles. Indeed, the kind of thinking that typically goes with this borders on the mentally ill – it is a fundamental breakdown in communication. You and I would do well to avoid that.

    The Ylilauta site has as it’s motto ‘where racism grows and spouts’. This is either in terrible taste or it is racism hiding behind ‘bad taste’, or it is a plain statement of fact. Either way, I personally find the whole idea to be idiotic. There are so many more ways to play Jackass that don’t involve blurring the lines of conscience when it comes to people’s basic rights. Seeing how the site actually operates only confirms that what the site admin suggests is the framework is not true to the reality. The site insults, often with no humour, threatens and defames individuals with no conscience. The site openly expresses racist views with either no or very little humour. Hiding behind the ‘it’s a joke’ would not convince anyone but the most stupid or the most dishonest. Yep, it is the mentality of those that support a ‘team’, where the ref is always wrong, our guys are always playing fair, and the opposition are always playing dirty. Ylilauta is promoting this ‘team’ mentality and approach to serious issues, and as such, they are playing with fire, perpetuating social ills and frankly, breaking the law on occasion too.

    Now which part of this analysis would you suggest is ‘clumpsy’ [sic]? Yep, kids can be idiots, and sometimes it can be fun. But life has a serious edge and the consequences of your FUN can be very negative for immigrants in Finland.

    In the playgrounds of civilisation are born the bullies who grow to commit the most heinous of humanity’s crimes.

    You are wrong to say that this site attacks Finns. That is very convenient for you to portray the arguments like this – a call to arms. It’s plainly false. This site opposes racism, discrimination and bigotry in all individuals, regardless of race, nationality, or ethnicity. It’s got nothing to do with ‘being Finnish’. However, populists are regularly trying to hijack the whole idea of ‘Finnish’ identity, telling other Finns how to be Finnish and that they have to show their loyalty by taking sides. Most people can see through that kind of flag waving and sabre rattling. Most people are insulted by the idea that they are told what it means to be a Finn. Preach freedom and practice fascism – that’s the motto for many in PS and for those who support PS.

    I’ve no problem with that, it’s a free country. But I don’t buy your shit or your empty accusations or your false pretentions. Hooligans have always tried to take over a team ‘supporters’, presenting themselves as the TRUE fans, the most loyal etc. In the end, the form a cancer in the game. That is the direction that PS are heading in Finnish politics.

  45. makeadifference

    Migrant Tales

    It was a word to D4R, not to you but you are defending his arguments.

    How do you know to who I belong, may be I belong to star wars? A stack of ants?

  46. makeadifference

    or Mr Bean show. But certainly I can read.

    Until D4R presents a good argument why saying so, then 1,5 million Finns are numbskulls, may be more using the criminal argument for numbskulls.

  47. Mark

    MakesNOdifference

    Until D4R presents a good argument why saying so, then 1,5 million Finns are numbskulls, may be more using the criminal argument for numbskulls.

    You were the one to use the word numbskull. Where has D4W used it? It’s actually a good word in English, meaning something close to knucklehead, or blockhead or pillock.

    Actually, in the political realm, it’s not unusual that those on the left or the right consider the millions who vote in a different way to themselves as somehow ‘stupid’. In fact, the whole political game is to somehow represent your opponents as being ‘clueless’. I don’t think people have to apologise for doing this. It’s just a normal part of the political rhetoric. At the end of the day, though, it is better to come back to the politics.

    It seems that a huge amount of the criticism on this blog recently has been personal shit aimed at the bloggers and commentators. It is getting rather boring, to be honest. Play the ball and not the man. If you have strong arguments, you don’t have to play the man. Simple.

  48. D4R

    Mark: You were the one to use the word numbskull. Where has D4W used it? It’s actually a good word in English, meaning something close to knucklehead, or blockhead or pillock.

    Matter of fact i did use numskull earlier and was referring to those racist bigots who attack on immigrants, but i don’t have the need to explain to individual like makeadifference, he knows who he is. I will repeat, in no where i said all Finns are numskull, just had to say it so makeadifference wont confuse Finns and put them against me.

    • Migrant Tales

      –I will repeat, in no where i said all Finns are numskull, just had to say it so makeadifference wont confuse Finns and put them against me.

      We know this, D4R. It’s a tactic of the anti-immigration crowd.

      Do you think we should start publishing a list of the top-ten or top-100 arguments and adjectives used by the anti-immigration/populist/far-right crowd. One of their favorites is that when they get offended they claim millions are. What a joke.

  49. makeadifference

    Migrant Tales

    If you reason that way then you are a joke. It was upon your initiative that discussion (top-ten) took place.

    • Migrant Tales

      As I mentioned previously, makeadifference, your take on the issue is “atrocious.”

  50. makeadifference

    In one topic you underlined that it took 13 days for PS to get a person fired after the medal-discussion. Why aren’t you applying the same to you, eyeopenor encouraged to kill Soini. 6 weeks has passed and eyeopenor is still here.

  51. makeadifference

    D4R should provide an explanation why 1,5 million people are dumbskulls. Keskusta, Kokoomus and PS and their voters. Sure, you may call it tactics. Tactics that are not very well reflected and causes bad reputation for Migrant Tales and for immigrants in Finland.

    Til that, D4R spreads rumour that so many Finns are numbskulls.

  52. D4R

    Migrant Tales: You were the one to use the word numbskull. Where has D4W used it? It’s actually a good word in English, meaning something close to knucklehead, or blockhead or pillock.

    Exactly, that only goes to show how weak arguments they come up with, they don’t have no arguments against us, so what they do is basically resort to name callings, or create false accusation or lies.

  53. D4R

    Migrant tales: Do you think we should start publishing a list of the top-ten or top-100 arguments and adjectives used by the anti-immigration/populist/far-right crowd. One of their favorites is that when they get offended they claim millions are. What a joke.

    Exactly, that only goes to show how weak arguments they come up with, they don’t have no arguments against us, so what they do is basically resort to name callings, or create false accusation or lies.

  54. D4R

    makeadifference: eyeopenor encouraged to kill Soini. 6 weeks has passed and eyeopenor is still here.

    I have posted many times to this site a copy of a threat texts from Iltalehti chatrooms, where they threaten the lifes of darkskin toned immigrants and arabs. You can find them in the earlier M.T threads. How do you explain this, do you apologize on the behalve of your Finn brothers who constantly make a murder threats against immigrants in Finnish media chatrooms?

  55. eyeopener

    Hi Makeadifference.

    You are accusing me of “killing Soini” or “at least try to create a environment”.You therefore should talk to me and not other bloggers here.

    Got that!! You seem to have a short memory or not one at all. You just fell into the open trap I had set for guys like you!! How does it feel??

    You think to defend the “piss-walls” in your own environment. But when you get your own cake you start to protest.

    Go to the police and make a formal complaint against me. Like to see you “correctness”.

    Take a hike and piss a tree!!

  56. makeadifference

    EYE

    does it console you that you have been reported to the police by other forces (google it up) for your death encitement.

    Sad that Enrique disgraces his blog by having you around and not applying the same treatment the he advocates for PS.

  57. eyeopener

    Hi MAD.

    Other forces?? Whoooah sounds I am a VIP in threat country. In my opinion the police should start taking a real effort of “taking you guys out” instead of people like me who set traps and cakes for “piss-wall” types like you.

    Consolidation from your side only triggers rigor in fighting your attitudes against the rights of foreigeners to speak their peace.

    I sincerely hope that the police come and talk with me about my “alleged threat”. And I hope they do as much effort in downplaying my threat allegation as they do with the current “far-right wing” threats!!

    Happy??

  58. makeadifference

    eyeopener

    sure, let the court decide.

    BTW, it didn’t take long time for you to upset Tuomas, though he was on way in Bona Fide

  59. eyeopener

    Hi Hatessan. Sorry the paraphrase 🙂

    Talk about my “splinter” What about your beam??

    My outcry is the same as many many of your “slur-and-slam” sites do to ordinary, hard working, contributing foreigners. Why are you so upset?? Finns feel threatened??

    The trap closes; you fell into it. You start to “miauw” when other people use the same vocabulary as you do. Do you defend the freedom of speech, my dear Hatessan?? Two sides of the same coin?? How does that feel??

    Furthermore: if you quote a person, quote correctly. Show something of your intellectualism. Better acquire the good “copy-and-waste” competences. You are the lousiest I have ever seen. Because: your quotations miss every sensible point.

    Get back to your “troll-hole” and start doing something about your education!!

  60. eyeopener

    Hi MAD

    Let’s have a look at that. Sure!! I have no problem with going to court in this case!!

    Is Tuomas upset?? Really?? Tells a lot about his mental acceptance powers!! I had the impression that he is able to put aside my views easily as he does with all the other messages that are hurting us.

    Well, good to know that this wack “comes home”. Tits for tats isn’t it??

  61. eyeopener

    Hi Rocker.

    You have it wrong again. Mr. Tesseri has nothing to do with my language.

    If you challenge my use of language than do it to me. Big boy!!

    When I wrote my challenge about Mr. Soini I just used the same vocabulary that are in use in your environmants. Following the “freedom of speech” claims I did the same. Now all of a sudden you guys accuse me of death threats against Mr Soini.

    Simplicity is a joy forever. Satisfy yourself with such a “under-the-belt” approach in the discussion. As I know my rockers you don’t belong to their environment.

    Could you add some label to your name?? Something like Focker??

  62. Rocker

    Migrant Tales

    ”I haven’t used it on Migrant Tales but you probably know on Hommaforum they kick out bloggers for a few weeks to chill out. What do you think”

    Start with eyeopenor and D4R who use insulting language so that you do not discriminate ordinairy bloggers.

    They might file a complaint for that.

  63. eyeopener

    Hi Focker.

    Ohhhhhhhh I am so hurt by these TM guys, the langusage they use, they way they humiliate me.Not very polite and accepting the way I am!!

    Get a hike please!!

    Who, my dear Focker, will you ask to file a complaint.
    For what offense, dear Focker will you ask these “THEY” to file a complaint?? Language?? You can make a horse laugh. But you always can try.

    Get back to your real senses. Discuss with us in a proper and decent way.

    You are welcome any time, not any way!!

  64. eyeopener

    Hi MAD

    If you have any dignity or respect for differrent opnions would you be so kind as to address people in this way.

    If not I take the freedom to address you in the way I think is appropriate to you.

    Agree??

  65. eyeopener

    Hi Focker.

    You didnot get it still. Let me try again.

    I never incited the key of violence myself!! Secondly: I used the same way of threathing people as you and your fellows do.

    Now you point at me as ” the violent man”. Cool. I didn’t expect anything else because you are soooo predictaaaabbbbllleee!! You stae that the court will take care of my threat. Cool. Let’s wait and see.

    But……..still your violence against foreigners go on. And ACTUAL killings as well. You probably will not have anything to say about this, do you??………… Focker

  66. eyeopener

    Hi Focker

    You must have a very strong feeling that the court will sentence me. Reasons for this?? I have no expectations…………..But a hunch!!

  67. D4R

    Rocker: Start with eyeopenor and D4R who use insulting language so that you do not discriminate ordinairy bloggers.

    They might file a complaint for that.

    Expect that people will play your games against you.

  68. D4R

    eyeopener: Hi D4R

    Let’s play ball or here let’s play puck!! Physical game but with very strict rules. I like ice-hockey.

    I’m in, just show me where the ball or puck at 🙂

  69. D4R

    eyeopener: Hi D4R

    Let’s play ball or here let’s play puck!! Physical game but with very strict rules. I like ice-hockey.

    I’m in, just show me where the ball or puck at 🙂

  70. D4R

    makeadifference: D4R

    shouldn’t you try to play fair play here first?

    There will no fair play for you, aslong as you come here trying to be word twisting crook.

  71. eyeopener

    Hi partner.

    The puck is where we want the TM to be. A place where a solid conversation can take place about the situation of foreigners in Finland. The good and the not so good things.

    We support those foreigners who seek a foothold in this country, contribute to their wellbeing and welfare. And to integrate them in an society that represents diversity. Irrespective the search of a Finnish identity Finland also has to realize that “forrests has an end”.

    This sense of belonging to a wider community has to grow, has to be educated, has to be promoted.

    We confront those people that oppose this future of Finland. I can understand the fears my opponents have. And contrary my opponents some of these feelings can be supported.

    However; these feelings can not allow for discrimination in any field of human being. Not between gender (sexism), not between single populations (anti-semitism, anti Saamitism and Romanism), nor betewen peoples in a wider sense(racism).

    That’s where the puck is!! We are “Sparta”!! 🙂

  72. eyeopener

    Hi MAD.

    Your understanding of “fair play” is “foul play”. Are you a ice-hockey player?. You get yourself a “out-of-game” sentence becauase of your attitude to the game.

    Understood?

    No??

    I was afraid -but not surprised- of that. But you know the rules of engagement however you want to play it “your way”. No way!!

    Your “miauwing” about my stand is really showing your level!!. Shut up and let the court decide. That’s what you want and that’s what you HAVE TO ACCEPT!!

    Difficult??

    I thought so..

  73. Mark

    Rocker

    Go home killer

    Behave yourself!

    You do realise that Eyeopener’s comment was said while complaining that the police appear not to investigate properly the ACTUAL murders of immigrants in what appeared very strongly to be a hate crimes, but would nevertheless probably thoroughly investigate a clearly rhetorical internet COMMENT made by an immigrant. He followed that directly with his remark about Soini.

    His remark was removed as too provocative a line of argument. Personally, I didn’t like his tactic because he opens himself to exactly these kinds of stupid misrepresentations from the likes of you. The whole discussion then gets distracted from the important things.

    We move from talking about ACTUAL murders of immigrants and the motives to talking about rhetorical death threats. How convenient!!

    I see that you too are more concerned with Eyeopener’s comments than the immigrant deaths.

  74. D4R

    Rocker, what do you think about the murders of immigrants recently? do you think it was wrong and also how can we prevent these kind of hatecrime incidents in the future?

  75. Hassan

    D4R

    racism is present everywhere in the world.

    Official records tell that foreigners are convicted 10 times more than Finns for racism/hate speech.

  76. Hassan

    D4R

    ”what do you think about the murders of immigrants recently? do you think it was wrong and also how can we prevent these kind of hatecrime incidents in the future?”

    Probably the easiest way is to ask those immigrants who top the figures by far in violence and rapes to stop their activities.

    • Migrant Tales

      –You and eyeopenor contribute to hate speech quite well also.

      This is a classic statement by the populist/far right/anti-immigration group. If you call them a racist, they turn around and call you that. It is like calling Jews at concentration camps “SS.”

      Pitiful.

  77. D4R

    Mr fake hassan: D4R

    racism is present everywhere in the world.

    Official records tell that foreigners are convicted 10 times more than Finns for racism/hate speech.

    You don’t know the definition of racism, why don’t you go and find out the definition of racism before you start using it.

  78. D4R

    Hassan: D4R

    racism is present everywhere in the world.

    Right. My question to you is, what should it be done about it? your solution please.

  79. eyeopener

    Hi Hatessan.

    “Official records tell that foreigners are convicted 10 times more than Finns for racism/hate speech”

    Are there other reasons for this statistics than your prejudiced reasons??Which official statistics are you referring to??

    “Probably the easiest way is to ask those immigrants who top the figures by far in violence and rapes to stop their activities”.

    Making you the easy way out H??. Better start asking why the police doesnot act on Finn-committed actions. “Inward reflection competence” would be my advice to the Police Academies and political parties.

    Can you do me a favor. Take a Finnish name. You insult foreigners!!

  80. D4R

    Hassan: D4R

    ”what do you think about the murders of immigrants recently? do you think it was wrong and also how can we prevent these kind of hatecrime incidents in the future?”

    Probably the easiest way is to ask those immigrants who top the figures by far in violence and rapes to stop their activities.

    You didn’t answer my question, try it againg pal.

  81. D4R

    Hassan, your trying to be slick huh lol…you know well i meant the racism committed by White Finn who murdered those immigrants. Since you don’t want to condemn it, i believe you approve their killings huh?

  82. Hassan

    D4R

    so tell me the Finnish definition of racism by law.

    ”Can you do me a favor. Take a Finnish name. You insult foreigners!!” Is it racism?

  83. D4R

    Hay fake hassan, how would you feel if i ame here with a Timo Soini name, and acted as a friend of immigrants a hypocritical douchebag? just like you’re doing.

  84. D4R

    M.T This is a classic statement by the populist/far right/anti-immigration group. If you call them a racist, they turn around and call you that. It is like calling Jews at concentration camps “SS.”

    Pitiful.

    Don’t worry about that, everybody can see what lame little game they come up with, the stupid game they’re playing is making them appear uncredible in whatever they’re trying to do.

  85. Hassan

    Migrant Tales

    ”–D4R has no other agenda than to chase perus suomalaiset. He does not know what is the Finnish parliament and government.

    Isn’t that his right like yours to “chase” immigrants? Rocker, I think your comment is pretty insulting. Certainly he knows. But do you know what the difference of an immigrant group and an immigrant individual is?”

    but he claims himself that he doesn’t know

    D4R ”What i meant was, P.S were invited to the goverment, having received so much votes and then ending up in the opposition volunteerily. Im sorry for the earlier mistake, english is not my mother toungue, im still in a learning process. Also they get alot of recognition among Finns.”

  86. Hassan

    D4R

    Hassan ”so tell me the Finnish definition of racism by law.”

    D4R ”You don’t know the definition of racism, why don’t you go and find out the definition of racism before you start using it.”

    D4R ”So fake Hassan restricted himself from ansering my questions, typical of racist.”

    Since there was no answer what is racism, thus racism is not answering questions.

  87. Mark

    Hassan

    ”so tell me the Finnish definition of racism by law.”

    You are asking a leading question, and you know it. If I asked you to define sexism according to the law, you couldn’t. If I asked you define equality according to the law, you couldn’t. If I was to ask you to define democracy according to the law, you couldn’t. And yet all these concepts have validity and they underpin our democracy, our constitution and our laws, as you know full well.

    Yes, racism is legal. Why? Because it is a belief, and beliefs are not illegal. However, you also know that when people refer to the word racism, they also refer to racist acts and acts of discrimination based on race, ethnicity, religious belief or sexual orientation, and they are illegal and they are defined in several acts in Finland, including the Penal Code.

    So why split hairs, Hassan? What’s your position on racism and racist acts? Care to share!

  88. D4R

    Hassan: Since there was no answer what is racism, thus racism is not answering questions.

    What on earths sake you mean by this?

  89. Hassan

    Mark

    If I asked you define equality according to the law, you couldn’t. If I was to ask you to define democracy according to the law, you couldn’t. Equal to everybody regardless of race, religion etc. See offial definitions if you need.

    Why foreigners are rasist in Finland? Because the police automatically registers a rape or other violence committed by an immigrant against an ethnic Finn as racists crime.

    So to anwer again to D4R, ask immigrants to stop raping, robbing and beating people up so perhaps you get rid of the rapist label one day. As well as stop the language you use, sensitive people get insulted.

  90. D4R

    Hassan: So to anwer again to D4R, ask immigrants to stop raping, robbing and beating people up so perhaps you get rid of the rapist label one day. As well as stop the language you use, sensitive people get insulted.

    How about you tell your Hommaforum gangbangers, to stop being racist ignorants, tell them, racism is so four centuries ago and up dated. Only losers are racists and they’re one. Fake Hassan, and that includes you too. Also tell them to stop making constant threats about darkskin toned immigrants, ive seen what you guys write in iltalehti chatroom threads about how your going to murder Somalis if they don’t leave Finland.

  91. Hassan

    ”Because the police automatically registers a rape or other violence committed by an immigrant against an ethnic Finn as racists crime.” and vice versa of course

    • Migrant Tales

      –”Because the police automatically registers a rape or other violence committed by an immigrant against an ethnic Finn as racists crime.” and vice versa of course.

      Your claim sounds as barbarian as the crime. What are you trying to drive through here? ALL foreigners are rapists, ALL foreigners are bad, ALL racism against them is therefore justified`?.. What is your problem.

      Do we call all Finns pedophiles?

      As far as I can see, your only aim is to discredit ALL immigrants because you have a serious issue with them.

  92. D4R

    Fake Hassan: D4R

    So you conclude that racists are loosers. What about your hate speech, does it qualify for ”looser?

    Im asking you a question, don’t you think racists are losers? some how your recent post tells me that you don’t think racists are a big losers in life.

  93. Hassan

    D4R Migrant Tales

    MT, is this somehow hard to understand since you draw summeries that have a little meaning.

    ”Probably the easiest way is to ask those immigrants who top the figures by far in violence and rapes to stop their activities.”

    ”Official records tell that foreigners are convicted 10 times more than Finns for racism/hate speech.”

    ”You and eyeopenor contribute to hate speech quite well also.”

  94. Mark

    Hassan

    So to anwer again to D4R, ask immigrants to stop raping, robbing and beating people up so perhaps you get rid of the rapist label one day. As well as stop the language you use, sensitive people get insulted.

    If you want to ask a group to stop raping, then maybe you should just start with MEN, rather than immigrants. We should ask all men to stop raping women, Hassan. This is a problem of our male gender, not of race.

    What about the silent Finnish women who are too afraid to speak out about a rape because the person is known to them and their family and they are terrified of the consquences, and the probable denials etc. Does that bother you? Because that’s there in the statistics too.

    It is absolutely disgusting that you try to make immigrants as a group responsible for the actions of individuals. There is nothing, absolutely nothing in the status of being an immigrant or from any of the immigrant communities that says robbery, rape, or assault are OKAY. On the contrary, immigrant communities are as appalled as anybody when these crimes happen. And yet you would strip away our dignity, our right to our own moral outrage by making us responsible as a group when the same actions by Finns are considered as the actions of individuals.

    Scumbag!

  95. Mark

    Hassan

    Sure of what Hassan? Sure that your approach to immigrants is not in the least bit degrading and inhumane? I doubt that.

    I found statistics on the other page that Somalis are very high in rapes.

    I see. Let’s see the statistic, the source and your analysis of what you can conclude from that.

    Unrelated, are you concerned about rape or about immigrants?

  96. Hassan

    I took them from the other page you discussed them with your stamp underneath.

    You can assess if real life is degrading or not. I just copy statistics.

  97. D4R

    Hassan: sure, Mark.

    Are you Somali? I found statistics on the other page that Somalis are very high in rapes.

    You should behave of yourself. Im Somali and i am highly offended by your comment. Ive never raped a woman, never occured in my mind.

  98. Mark

    Hassan

    I just copy statistics

    Which of course makes you innocent in your own eyes. I still have not seen a source for that crime statistic, I merely pointed out things that are relevant to it, and they ARE relevant. There are many things that operate in the social world and in statistics to portray immigrants as somehow worse that natives in some respect.

    You only have to look at what happens when an immigrant has a bad marriage – how do people view it? Some will say, hey, marriages are breaking up all the time. Others will say, ‘I told you so – it can never work these mixed marriages’. Same outcome, same statistic, totally different interpretation of what it means. That’s common sense Hassan to recognise that.

    You know, I’ve said it before, but let’s go over it again. In the mid-2000s, an outbreak of robberies in Helsinki by Somali youths meant that compared to their population size, the number of robberies was much higher. Then, when the police and Somali community started to work together on the problem, it turns out that the vast majority of the crimes were committed by a hardcore group of about 20 youths. Now that is not a lot. In fact, for a gang or a couple of gangs, that is not a lot. And yet an entire young generation of Somali youth have been stigmatized because of the actions of these individuals. That is thousands of kids, thousands Hassan, having to carry the stigma because of the actions of 20. That can NEVER be right, or fair, or just! And yet even today, nearly ten years later and after much progress has been made, those statistics do the rounds regularly on the internet message boards and are presented as ‘proof’ that Somalis are much more criminally inclined.

    When it comes to crime, we start with the idea that it is an individuals choice. When an individual commits murder, we do not prosecute the family, or the community or the nation, though we might recognise failings in any of those areas. And yet when it comes to immigrant groups, the story changes, and all of a sudden, the entire community is held responsible for the actions of individuals. It’s not RIGHT, It’s absolutely degrading. There are people who are extremely moral within the immigrant community. They might even blame ‘Western values’ for corrupting their children, and you’d have to ask whether they were right!? And yet they are held responsible. It’s not JUSTICE: You know, that thing that supposed to mark Finland out as so much more advanced than other countries.

    What you are doing with your ‘copy and paste’ is degrading to human beings, Hassan, and you should really really be ashamed of yourself. Because you are spreading hatred and lies. It is a lie in the sense that you make innocent people responsible for the actions of those who are not innocent. Shame on you and on your moral bankrupcy! What on earth do you get out of this? What’s your pay off?

  99. Hassan

    Mark

    What a wonderful approach you have to life Mark.

    ”Sure of what Hassan? Sure that your approach to immigrants is not in the least bit degrading and inhumane? I doubt that.”

    If the reality is degrading then life is degrading, you choose. Look up the statistics, may be it refreshes your memory a little.

  100. Hassan

    D4R

    ”You should behave of yourself. Im Somali and i am highly offended by your comment. Ive never raped a woman, never occured in my mind.”

    So, what is your point?

  101. Hassan

    is this a right conclusion D4R?

    You tell my friend who has got caught of raping that he is a rapist and should rotten in hell. Then I should get/have the right to get deeply offended for that, right?

  102. Mark

    Hassan

    What a wonderful approach you have to life Mark.

    Thank you. It’s always nice to get a compliment.

    If the reality is degrading then life is degrading, you choose.

    Your hiding behind facts does not hide your bigotry, Hassan, or your inhumanity. However, I’m well aware that you refuse to take any responsibility for the effects of trying to make an entire ethnic group responsible for the criminal actions of a few. Your actions are utterly degrading and should be condemned for what they are – barbaric and unjust, the actions of a hate-monger!

    Look up the statistics, may be it refreshes your memory a little.

    The responsibility is on you to provide a source and to back up your own claims. It is just a show of your complete lack of genuine credibility that you do not even know the sources of the statistics that you use to degrade innocent people. You are scum, Hassan. You have provided absolutely no justification for your hate-mongering. Just smear, sneer, smear, and sneer!

    In the last week that you have been commenting on this blog, you have dragged the level of debate down to the absolute gutter….I think we should ignore you as a troll. You’ve brought absolutely nothing to this debate except insults and blind bigotry.

  103. D4R

    Fake Hassan: D4R

    ”You should behave of yourself. Im Somali and i am highly offended by your comment. Ive never raped a woman, never occured in my mind.”

    So, what is your point?

    The point is, you’re like a little kid, you need a father figure to tell you to shut up with your insults. It’s awkay Fake Hassan, you can over come this sickness, it’s just a learned habit probably from the people around you. With our help you will be cured. 🙂

  104. D4R

    Fake Hassan: is this a right conclusion D4R?

    You tell my friend who has got caught of raping that he is a rapist and should rotten in hell. Then I should get/have the right to get deeply offended for that, right?

    First of all, i am not your friend so get that right. I don’t understand what is your obsession with rape? it kind sounds like it’s a personal to you. 🙂

  105. D4R

    Hassan, what do you have to tell to the people that been raped by Finns? the children in thailand molested by Seppo or Jussi or Kalle? can you please answer me that.

  106. Timo

    Hassan, minä ja sinä kumpikin olemme syntyperältään Suomalaisia, Haluaisin kysyä sinulta, miksi olet niin hemmetin tyhmä rasisti? miksi pelkäät tummaihoisia?

  107. Hazzan

    Mark

    I take back what I said about Somali raping. I found 2 statistics that Somalis raped 55 and 60 times more than Finns but they were a bit controversial after scrutiny. Let’s forget that. SOMALIS AREN’T RAPERS. Apologies!!!

    • Migrant Tales

      Hey dude, again with the violence, eh? What you are doing is spreading urban tales on this site. Your only task and contribution to the debate is hate and defamation.

      Sources? And tell us how you arrived at those conclusion. I know it is a difficult question, put please try.

  108. Hazzan

    D4R

    Answer on your question. It was to address hate crimes.

    Hate-crimes 2010

    Finns 73% of total hate crimes 96-97 % Finns of total population
    somalis 5 % of total hate crimes, 1,2 % Somali of the total Finnish population
    Irak 3 % total hate crimes 0,9% Iraks of the total Finnish population
    Viros 3% total hate crimes 5,4 % Estonian of the total Finnish population
    Turkkis 3 % total hate crimes 0,7 % Turks of the total Finnish population
    afganistans 1% total hate crimes 0,2-0,4% of the total Finnish population

    Conclusion: Somalis, Iraqs, Turks and Afgans overrepresented in relation to their native/foreign/immigrant population

    source Poliisikoulu and tilastokeskus

  109. Hazzan

    Migrant Tales

    ”Sources? And tell us how you arrived at those conclusion. I know it is a difficult question, put please try”

    Sloppy sources, one with Tuija Brax’s name underneath and the other in Soinivaara’s blog

  110. eyeopener

    HateSSan.

    Nice report. From the summary(English version) I get a totally different picture about hate crimes that you suggest.

    A major conclusion is: Somali people are the most subceptable victims of hatecrimes. Did you read the report?? Did you check yourself the research questions? Methodology? Analysis of data??

    I will have the rest of the report checked. I will come back to your statistics later.

    • Migrant Tales

      eyeopener, do you think this Muslim impersonator can take the truth? I will tell him: The statistics used on Hommaforum and by characters like James Hirvisaari are simply phony baloney. In English baloney means lauantaimakkara.

    • Migrant Tales

      Finnish guy, does the story say 40% of immigrants living in Finland or does this include tourists? Are these convicted or suspected?

      By the way, since all financial graft are committed by Finns (100%), by your logic a foreigner would never be involved in such a crime.

  111. Hazzan

    ”By the way, since all financial graft are committed by Finns (100%), by your logic a foreigner would never be involved in such a crime.”

    have no idea what you talk about

  112. eyeopener

    HateSSan

    You send me this file:
    http://www.polamk.fi/poliisi/poliisioppilaitos/home.nsf/files/DB54AA1FE9A222B9C2257925004A8CDA/$file/Raportteja95_Niemi_web.pdf

    Are you willing to take it back of your “unfounded allegations”?? I asked you some questions. Are you willing to answer them after I have checked this report?

    Can you also provide me the link to the Helsinki police report based on which the HS publishes this article.? You seem to have the inside information. Always good to share in a discussion don’t you think??

  113. Hazzan

    shoot!!

    Where do police get there information? Strange, nowhere in Tilastokeskus or elsewhere I have found confirmation. Because they are lying, not on immigrants but on nationalities.

    Raiskaukset Suomessa – ”Ulkomaalaisten osuus pistää silmään

    ”Kaikista raiskausrikoksista joka neljännellä tuomitulla oli tausta ulkomailla: joko jonkin muun maan kansalaisuus tai kaksoiskansalaisuus.”

    AL: Ulkomaalaisten tekemät raiskaukset vaativat täsmätoimia

    ”Oikeuspoliittisen tutkimuslaitoksen mukaan joka neljäs raiskauksesta epäilty on ulkomaalainen. Viime vuonna ulkomaalaisten osuus raiskauksista oli peräti 45,3 prosenttia.”

    Maahanmuuttajat tekevät yli 20 kertaa enemmän raiskauksia

    ”Suomessa tehdään n. 400 raiskausta vuodessa. Näistä n. 40% eli n. 160 raiskausta vuodessa on maahanmuuttajien tekemiä. Kun n. 150.000 maahanmuuttajaa tekee n. 160 raiskausta vuodessa, maahanmuuttajien tekemiä raiskauksia on vuositasolla enemmän kuin 1 raiskaus per 1.000 maahanmuuttajaa.”

  114. D4R

    Hazzan: I take back what I said about Somali raping. I found 2 statistics that Somalis raped 55 and 60 times more than Finns but they were a bit controversial after scrutiny. Let’s forget that. SOMALIS AREN’T RAPERS. Apologies!!!

    Thank you, after all we’re making a progress curing your desease. I can tell you now that, you my friend have a decent prognoses for over coming your desease. So, you finally confessed that you were wrong about Somalis, maybe you have to rethink about your other negative ideas of immigrants at all.

  115. Hazzan

    hmm, it is statistics.

    what about you, where do you get intolerant Finns from?

    I actually thought tha nobody could be worse when it comes to street-hate crimes than Finns. Apparently I was wrong, muslims have a tendency to commit hate crimes more than Finns, 6-7 may be 8 times more than Finns.

  116. Mark

    Hazzan

    ”Suomessa tehdään n. 400 raiskausta vuodessa. Näistä n. 40% eli n. 160 raiskausta vuodessa on maahanmuuttajien tekemiä. Kun n. 150.000 maahanmuuttajaa tekee n. 160 raiskausta vuodessa, maahanmuuttajien tekemiä raiskauksia on vuositasolla enemmän kuin 1 raiskaus per 1.000 maahanmuuttajaa.”

    Hazzan, you cannot just go hunting for a statistic until you find one you like and then close down the argument just because you’ve found something that confirms your prejudice. It has already been pointed out to you that the Police statistics DO NOT tally with Tukinainen statistics and the belief is that rape by Finns is underreported, because the threshold for report of a rape involving someone you know is much higher. On top of that the reporting of rape by a stranger when that stranger is a foreigner is also significantly higher. So, you have two very strong factors that distort the statistics.

    Adjusting for this might yet still reveal a higher statistic, but these things certainly have to be taken into account. The other factor over and above these are cultural, and then the question regards the status of women. This is a valid message that can be aimed at all immigrants coming to Finland, but that is something completely different to making all immigrants responsible somehow for the actions of individuals. I’ve said this before, but nowhere in Islam and nowhere in the cultures of Africa does it say that rape is allowed. It is a crime in Somalia as much as it is a crime in Finland. This really needs to be recognised. You will not have much luck getting messages about the status of women in Finland if you immediately alienate everyone in the immigrant community by degrading them all. You absolutely defeat the object of your purpose.

    And if your purpose is to diminish rape, and not merely to hunt the internet looking for bad shit to throw at African immigrants, then you would also acknowledge the problems in Finland in regard to rape, rape reporting, and also attitudes of some Finnish men towards women, because clearly, the problem is not exclusive to immigrants. Far from it. You should be concerned for all those Finnish women who are too afraid to come forward and report their assault to authorities. And you should be appalled at the way the Police have used new legislation aimed at increasing the threshold for rape reporting to actual weaken sentencing. An absolute disgrace, and something for which Finland has come in for some very strong criticism.

  117. Hazzan

    but don’t you think the threshold is much higher when it comes to immigrants to report rapes? They also have friends, people they know and so on. I suppose the threshold is significantly higher to them who may not speak Finnish nor know the Finnish laws.

  118. Hazzan

    as an immigrant to be discriminated the most efficient way to do so is to start raping. Jealousy and similar kills a lot of Finns in Finland. Possibly immigrants as well. I believe Finns consider rape more aggressive and insulting if it is done by an immigrant.

    I knew a guy who was bitter for ten to 15 years because of a rape on his girlfriend. The rape took place before they started dating but still. Finally he murdered the guy.

  119. Mark

    but don’t you think the threshold is much higher when it comes to immigrants to report rapes? They also have friends, people they know and so on. I suppose the threshold is significantly higher to them who may not speak Finnish nor know the Finnish laws.

    Well, this too. But that doesn’t invalidate the previous points either, especially given that the native Finnish population is that much greater in size. In fact, what is often ignored is that foreign women are also the victims of rape, in some cases by Finns.

    I believe Finns consider rape more aggressive and insulting if it is done by an immigrant.

    I think you are correct in this. I also think that this is part of the problem that feeds into rape by native Finns, that women are possessions or sexual objects and that objections to immigration are often objections to MALE immigrants.

    The case you mentioned, did the woman bring a prosecution? And do you think he killed the guy because of his own suffering and loss or the woman’s? Sounds like he was in need of counselling too. And did this murder help that woman’s suffering or did it create more? It might be too that this person already had a disposition to using violence, and this was just the ‘trigger’. Did this man seperate from the rape victim and did this have anything to do with the murder? The case raises many questions. I wonder what conclusions you are drawing from it.

    I have known women who have been raped. I have also heard men trivialise it. What many men do not realise is that a woman being raped does not know if she is also going to be murdered afterwards. The man might interpret it as a ‘sex game’, when it is anything but.

    as an immigrant to be discriminated the most efficient way to do so is to start raping.

    And yet it is still degrading to innocent people that they are held responsible somehow for the actions of other people with whom they have nothing in common except the stamp in their passport. How would you feel if you were wrongly accused of rape? The stigma would be dreadful. Imagine the stigma that is created in Finland in regard to Somalis in particular. It is really quite awful and unjust. If we must consider Somalis as guests in this country, that we imagine the behaviour of one member of this group of guests tarnishes the whole reputation, imagine also what it says about some Finns that this is how we treat its guests? There is a point where immigrants have to be accepted as individual citizens, and not as representatives of a group, especially when it comes to crime, which is such an individual choice anyhow.

  120. Hazzan

    Well, I have no problem talking about sensitive stuff of any ethnic group.

    Finns as such represent a disgraceful rape-behaviour and then you have a little immigrant minority who commits nearly half of the rapes on yearly basis what should you call them? That was just my warning signal, with this kind of rape behaviour there will be many more dead bodies. Finns, alcohol, jealousy is not a good combination.

    ”The case you mentioned, did the woman bring a prosecution?” Don’t really know but, 4 shots were fired and apparently 2 in the testicles. 4-5 years in prison, then out again. After the murder and sentence he was released, he got a gun and a LICENCE for it. 🙂 He killed his children in some kind of psychoosis, suffocated them not by shooting.

    The guy and the woman were and are still together after, during and between the prison time

  121. Hazzan

    Mark

    it was a bad example, the guy is literally a criminal.

    I try to trace him up after he suffocated his kids, I found an article a year later where he was digging up some drugs in the woods but I do not know what to believe. There was a book about this but the author died so I am looking for a new one who could bring up the thruth.

  122. Mark

    Hazzan

    Finns as such represent a disgraceful rape-behaviour and then you have a little immigrant minority who commits nearly half of the rapes on yearly basis what should you call them?

    Glad to see you condemn rapes done by Finns too. The ‘nearly half’ though is almost certainly incorrect. If Tukinainen’s figures are reliable, which there is every reason to believe they are more reliable than the police statistics, then 90% of rapes being committed by Finns. But you haven’t commented on Tukinainen? Why not?

    Also, what do you make of this statistic that says 40% of Finnish women have experienced physical or sexual violence or the threat of such. Amnesty International has described the situation in Finland as scandalous!

    Finns, alcohol, jealousy is not a good combination.

    So, who should we be more afraid of, jealous murderers or foreign rapists?

    You still have not responded in any way to the idea that labelling a whole group on the basis of the actions of individuals is degrading innocent people?

  123. Hazzan

    Räsänen, Viime vuonna osuus 45 %: Ulkomaalaisten tekemät raiskaukset vaativat täsmätoimia (interior ministry)

    Raiskaukset Suomessa – ”Ulkomaalaisten osuus pistää silmään justice minister Anna-Maja Henriksson during years 2006-2009

    Raiskaus 30 / 87, 34 %

    Törkeä raiskaus 13 / 32, 41 %

    Yhteensä 48 / 261, 24 %

    Johanna Tukiainen, one of the most futile persons in Finland.

    Well, those are statistics. People can draw what conclusions they want. Statistics are as close to the thruth as you can get. You don’t have to agree with statistics, I have not done them.

    This is one way to put, people with foreign background. I advocate open and public registers for sex offenders of all kind so the potential targets can easier protect themselves.

  124. eyeopener

    🙂 God is not your destination HateSSan. Statistics are not your field let alone its interpretation.

    “Foul play” doesnot make the paly fair.

    Unfortunately you have no understanding of fair-play.

    Lonely only. Bye bye birdie.

  125. eyeopener

    Not your “foul play” HateSSan. I don’t play with you because you don’t know how!!. Better for you to play with yourself. Remember: new pants, zipper……smack,smack??

    Bye bye birdie.

  126. Hazzan

    sure, you threath only. you don’t stand behind your words.

    It was said that Soini gave a big fart on your death threath

  127. Mark

    Hazzan

    Well, those are statistics. People can draw what conclusions they want. Statistics are as close to the thruth as you can get. You don’t have to agree with statistics, I have not done them.

    Gosh, this is hard work. Do you really really think statistics are the truth?

    Do you think the Police have accurate statistics on the numbers of drink drivers in Finland based on the number of arrests?

    Do you think the police have accurate statistics on the amount of pirated films based on arrests?

    Do you think that the police statistics on assault represent all the assaults that happen in Finland in one year?

    Do you think that Finnish police statistics on the amount of cannabis seized is an accurate representation on the amount of cannabis smoked in Finland?

    YOU MUST realise that police statistics can only reveal what people report as crimes. If a crime is not reported, it is not recorded!

    NOW GET THIS, the vast majority of rapes in Finland are not reported!!!!!! Amnesty reckon that about 16% of rapes in Finland are reported. It’s horrific isn’t it. But that’s the situation.

    Not only that, but of those reported, less than 20% are prosecuted.

    And yet you want to rely on police statistics to give you an accurate picture of rape in Finland!!!!!!!!

    Hazzan – it would be a complete betrayal of women in Finland to suggest that police statistics represent an accurate picture of rape in Finland.

    Gosh, I cannot believe your stubbornness on this point.

    I was not talking about Johanna Tukianen, I was talking about the Rape Helpline in Finland called Tukinainan.

    I advocate open and public registers for sex offenders of all kind so the potential targets can easier protect themselves.

    Is this your happy way of saying that you have no problem with lynchings! Gosh, it just gets worse with you!!!!

  128. Timo

    Hazzan, miksi et käyttäydy kuten normalit Suomalaiset? me Suomalaiset emme ole rasisteja vaan pieni osa on ja enimmäkseen he ovat juoppoja. Mä kysyn sulta, luuletko kuuluvasi heihin?

  129. Hazzan

    Mark

    -Do you think the Police have accurate statistics on the numbers of drink drivers in Finland based on the number of arrests?

    the best available yes (everybody drives drunk in this country)

    -Do you think the police have accurate statistics on the amount of pirated films based on arrests?,

    probably the best that are available yes, I download only originals 🙂

    -Do you think that the police statistics on assault represent all the assaults that happen in Finland in one year?

    of course not, but they have the best available I believe

    -Do you think that Finnish police statistics on the amount of cannabis seized is an accurate representation on the amount of cannabis smoked in Finland.

    impossible equation, if it is smoked it is not seized, right?

    -NOW GET THIS, the vast majority of rapes in Finland are not reported!!!!!! Amnesty reckon that about 16% of rapes in Finland are reported. It’s horrific isn’t it. But that’s the situation.

    sure, sad that no more gets reported. I know a special deterrent for women that can’t be said here but I would say it works in 90 % of cases.

    -Hazzan – it would be a complete betrayal of women in Finland to suggest that police statistics represent an accurate picture of rape in Finland.

    well, I believe that it is the best available. Unreported or reported, that is the most accurate that you can get.

    Crime is a chosen path, one should take the consequences.

  130. eyeopener

    Mark.

    What you say -or what HateSSan reads- goes into one ear -one eye- and leaves the other within a second. Nothing is left behind. Empty head or solid clay brains?? make a guess!! His understanding of statistics doesnot go any further than his reading skilss of numbers and reproducing them.

    Waste of time to explain any deeper meaning.

    Respect you try!!

  131. eyeopener

    Timo.

    Thanks for trying to get some sense in Hazzan. I know that the majority of Finns disagree with his point of view.

    I am happy to find Finns openly questioning the way Hazzan discusses.

    You can critizise me as well. My motives are to engage in the field of Hazzan. My motives to engage are certainly not the ones I hold in other places. In no way.

    Thanks anyway.

  132. Mark

    well, I believe that it is the best available. Unreported or reported, that is the most accurate that you can get.

    Hang on a minute, did you just say ‘unreported or reported’ it’s the most accurate? For goodness sake, Hazzan, what kind of fool do you take people for? If it’s unreported, then how is it ever going to enter the police statistics?

    here, the best of multiculti

    Nice try, but his incompetence seems to have had nothing to do with his praying, but rather the fact that three different care staff appear not to have noticed that the old lady’s fall had caused serious injuries, assuming that this is why she died.

    She actually died four hours after the fall and being checked by the Muslim duty nurse. The old lady was attended to already by two care staff while the Muslim was praying. And it is not clear that he refused to attend, but rather one of the care nurses reported:

    A staff member told me we had to wait for him to finish.

    Later the full story emerges and it was one of the other staff, not the Muslim nurse, who put the old lady on the toilet and then went to her office to attend to ‘paperwork’. WTF?

    Then, when she and another nurse found out she had fallen, they decided not to take her immediately back to bed, but to wait for the Muslim duty nurse to check her over, except that they took the decision to wait ‘five or ten minutes’ for him to finish. They could have immediately phoned for an ambulance if it appeared she was seriously injured.

    When he arrived, he checked her limbs, took her blood pressure and decided that she should be put back to bed. However, rather than do as he suggested, the other nurse took the old lady to her own office while she completed paperwork. Again, WTF?

    An hour and three quarters after the fall, at 5.45 the nurse takes the old lady to the lounge where she was walking around and talking fine and is left there by the nurse. Again WTF? She was then on her own until 7.30 that she was found to be ‘unresponsive’ when staff turned up with morning tea. Again, WTF?

    So, after all that, who is to blame for her death? Well, this was the headline in the Telegraph?

    Woman died after Muslim nurse refused to help as he was praying.

    …..I fucking despair. Media bigots. Unbelievable.

  133. Hazzan

    ”Hang on a minute, did you just say ‘unreported or reported’ it’s the most accurate? For goodness sake, Hazzan, what kind of fool do you take people for? If it’s unreported, then how is it ever going to enter the police statistics?”

    what is your accurate statistics then?

  134. D4R

    Hazzan: Timo

    jos sä vihjaat vihapuhetta tai tappouhkia niin eyeopenor ja D4R kuuluvat siihen kategoriaan.

    Hazzan, tiedän sinun kaltaiset uunot, olen tuntenut heitä nuoren ikäni aikana. Sinä tulet tänne väärilteltyjen tilastojesi kanssa vain yhtä mielessä, ja se on ainoastaan rasismia mielessä. Eikö ole korkea aika lopettaa tämä ulkomaalaisten hyökkääminen vääristelty tilastollesi. Suurin osa me Suomalaisista hyväksymme erilaisuutta ja ulkomaalaisia ylipäätäänsä, Sinun kaltaisesi rasisti jurot ovat vähemistö. Suosittelen että lähde ulos lintukotostasi ja meet tapaamaan ulkolaisia, siten voit menettää pelkosi joka syö sinut sisältäsi.

  135. Timo

    Hazzan, olen samaa mieltä D4R kanssa, me Suomalaiset emme ole rasisteja, emmekä hyväksy sinun kaltaiesesi syrjäytyneitä rasisteja, jotka haluavat syrjäyttää Suomea jotta meidän kaupan hyllyistä ei löytyisi muta kuin lenkki makkara ja lapinkulta. Me Suomalaiset irti sanoudumme sinun rasistisista käytöstä.

  136. Timo

    Hazzan, minun mielestä sinä olet vihapuheen A ja O. me Suomalaiset emme pidä kaikkea maahanmuuttajia rikoisina taikka raiskaajina. Hazzan minun mielstä sinä tässä vääristelet asioita jotta ajaisit agendasi läpi, se kuules ei tule tapahtumaan. Me tullaan taistelemaan teitä persuja vastaan.

    • Migrant Tales

      –what comment has been racist? or hate speech?

      This is a good questions and reveals the problem. It’s like being an alcoholic. You rarely here people admitting that they have a drinking problem. It’s the same story for an illness like racism. Maybe we should start an RA association, Racists Anonymous. What do you think? “Hi, I’m Joe Blow and I am a racist…”

      I am not saying this as a joke but in an effort to help you. Think of how much positive force you would release if you stopped seeing the world the way you do today? If I hated somebody or some group I would feel miserable.

  137. Hazzan

    sure, let’s not hate nobody.

    But if I copy D4R’s statements and they become insulting, shouldn’t you accuse D4R and not me?

  138. Timo

    Hazzan, minun mielestäni sinä et ole syyllistynyt mihinkään vihapuheisiin jos ylpitäätäänsä tiedät sanan tarkoituksen, mutta mitä sinä teet on, tulet tänne ja manipuloit järjestelmällisesti rasismi keskustelun mitä täällä yritetään käydä, koska se koskettaa monien elämää täällä suomessa. Hazan , haluan kysyä sinulta, miksi teet tämän? mikä on sinun agenda jota ajaat?

  139. Timo

    Hazzan, tämän blogin tarkoitus ei ole vastakkainasettelu, kuka teki mikä rikoksen taikka kuka johtaa rikostilastoissa. Se on abdurdia edes vertailla ja siten mustamaalata kokonaista ethnistä ryhmää. Jos haluat kontribuida keskusteluun jotain hyödyllistä niin, osallistu keskusteluun, sen sijaan että häiritset keskustelun.

  140. D4R

    Fake Hazzan, LOOK, THIS DISCUSSION OR BLOG IS NOT ABOUT YOU, YOU OBVIOUSLY ARENT PARTICIPATING, YOUR ONLY HERE TO DISTORT THE DISCUSSION. WE HAVE IMPORTANT ISSUES TO DISCUSS RATHER THAN TO ENGAGE YOUR LAME. IF YOU DONT STOP WHAT YOUR DOING WE’RE GOING TO HAVE TO IGNORE YOU PERIOD. i WILL ADVICE ALL PARTICIPANT TO NOT ENGAGE DISCUSSION WITH HAZZAN, HE OBVIOUSLY IS HEE TO PLAY AROUND, TO HIM THIS IS A LAUGHING MATTER BUT TO US, IT’S A MATTER OF LIFE.

  141. Hazzan

    well, that was the whole answer and solution.

    Why do we have racism and hate speech? I do not know exactly why, but I know who are the guilty ones.

    For hate speech it was people with origin from Somalia, Iraq, Turkey and Afganistan who were overrepresnted. If you want to reduce hate speech, talk to them

  142. eyeopener

    Hi D4R.

    Do you have a suggestion or two how foreigners can contribute and participate in higher levels of happiness in Finland?

  143. Hazzan

    then you have eyeopenor (who doesn’t belong on ANY blog)

    ”The freedom of speech, as all constitutional rights, everywhere in the world, is NOT an absolute right. This freedom is relative and limited by the responsibility of people for other people.”

    while giving death threats to Soini.

    And D4R (who doesn’t belong on ANY blog)

    ””Somalis living in Finland are law abiding, and they WOULD describe themselves as harmless.”

    -Law abiding, they robbed/committed crimes for ten years 3 times more than Finns. What a wonderful conception of law abiding. 🙂

    recall the numbskulls?

    You guys are dangerous species to other human species, you guys need to be locked untill you get medicated, cause you need one.
    You’re seriously need in help. You’re so deluded that i worry you may harm some people. I urge you to see a psychiatrist real quick.
    They elected this knob to the parliament and all his doing now is partying not contributing to anything

    A ceses where immigrants attack finns** as you bluntly would say, are not existance, and if it occures, then, it will be reported, but we don’t have that kind of incidents, but we sure have incidents where a finn attacks immigrants.

    -Of course most of the people in there are mostly in agreement when it comes immigration issues and since Halla-aho’s blogging is rather logic at least in my opinion(oh the horror, I apologise for shocking you, please bear with me

    and how the hell do you know this? It’s blog that you read, not comment.”

  144. D4R

    Hazzan: Why do we have racism and hate speech? I do not know exactly why, but I know who are the guilty ones.

    Good question Hazzan, i think what you need to do is, go to a racist Finn discussion blogs and ask them why they exercise hatespeech against minorities in Finland. It’s highly stupid of you to come here and accuse of us hatespeech, when this thread is to fight aginst hatespeech preached by white Finns like YOU!!!!!!!!

  145. Hazzan

    Vihapuhe

    ”Varsinaista vihapuhetta on epäasiallinen, epäkohtelias, halveksiva, hyökkäävä, härnäävä, ylenkatsova, itsensä ylentävä, epäkunnioittava, loukkaava, naurunalaiseksi asettava, ivaava, härnäävä, suuta soittava, räkyttävä, uhitteleva, provosoiva, toisen osapuolen poissulkeva jne. jne.- kommunikaatio. Mikkonen luettelee blogissaan.”

  146. D4R

    Hazzan, what you’re doing is very slick, you’re coming here and accusing us of a hatespeech, by doing so, you’re taking spotlight from the racists who practice hatespeech, i wonder if they sent you to distort things in here. So actually the real basterds who get away witht their real hatespeech is you and the ones who really preach it. But no worries, we’re going to expose you. I know Hazzan that you’re a white Finn, the reason you’re attacking us in this thread M.T, is because you’re mad about this what we’re going for targeting the issues that face us immigrants here in Finland day to day, wich is racism preached by racist Hommaroum gangsters like YOU!!!!!

  147. D4R

    Hazzan: For hate speech it was people with origin from Somalia, Iraq, Turkey and Afganistan who were overrepresnted. If you want to reduce hate speech, talk to them

    hahahah. What is a hatespeech to you? and when did Somalis or iraqis or aphgans ever preached hatespeech on your streets? you’re lying your azz off. I don’t even understand why i am engaging a discussion with you, you’re a waste of time seriously, you’re getting lamer and lamer.

  148. D4R

    Matter of fact i take that back, i will not call you no names, i am better than that, calling you names will only scoop me to your level 🙂

  149. eyeopener

    D4R

    HateSSan is a GIGOLO TYPE OF GUY. GARBAGE In GARBAGE OUT LOW OPINION. Can’t even distinguish the singular from the plural.

    I am not going to react to him anymore. HateSSan has hijjacked this blog far too long. We actually let him do that. We stop it here, don’t we!!

    Like to raise more urgent questions like how to increase happiness of Finns and Foreigners alike.

  150. Sasu

    Hazzan oletko ymmärtänyt, että ihmiset ovat pahoja olentoja. Tuolla logiikalla kaikki maailman kansat ovat pahoja ja vaarallisia. Meidän on parasta sulkea ovet koska kaikissa ihmis ryhmissä on raiskaajia, pedofiilejä ja sarjamurhaajia. Oletko unohtanut lestadiolais jupakan tai Kouluampujat. He olivat kaikki suomalaisia ja valkoisia. Helvetinenkelit ovat myös valkoisia. Minun pitää varmaan neuvoa kaikkia ei-eurooppalaisia hankkimaan pistoolin ja luotiliivin. Meidän kaikkien kannattaa. Valkoiset, värilliset, kantasuomalaiset ja maahanmuuttajat aseistautukaa hampaisiin asti koska ihmiset ovat brutaali eläinlaji.

    Tuo oli ironiaa ja satiiria. Älkää ottako ihan tosiksaan.

  151. D4R

    eyeopener: Hi D4R.

    Do you have a suggestion or two how foreigners can contribute and participate in higher levels of happiness in Finland?

    That’s a hard question, i think what we need is more Finns, who’re willing to help integrate immigrants in to Finnish society, a more Finns who wants to dicuss with immigrants, listen to them, perhaps befirend with them so the immigrants can feel they’re home. Immigrants are now being excluded from Finnish society, so they’re having a hardtime to figure out how to integrate i to Finnish society, That’s why we’re seeing many immigrants getting frustrated and grabbing the bottle just to medicate their frustration and deppression. So i think you will have to ask that question to White Finns.

  152. Timo

    Hazzan: Vihapuhe

    ”Varsinaista vihapuhetta on epäasiallinen, epäkohtelias, halveksiva, hyökkäävä, härnäävä, ylenkatsova, itsensä ylentävä, epäkunnioittava, loukkaava, naurunalaiseksi asettava, ivaava, härnäävä, suuta soittava, räkyttävä, uhitteleva, provosoiva, toisen osapuolen poissulkeva jne. jne.- kommunikaatio. Mikkonen luettelee blogissaan.”

    Ja pointti on?

  153. Timo

    Sasu: Hazzan oletko ymmärtänyt, että ihmiset ovat pahoja olentoja. Tuolla logiikalla kaikki maailman kansat ovat pahoja ja vaarallisia. Meidän on parasta sulkea ovet koska kaikissa ihmis ryhmissä on raiskaajia, pedofiilejä ja sarjamurhaajia. Oletko unohtanut lestadiolais jupakan tai Kouluampujat. He olivat kaikki suomalaisia ja valkoisia. Helvetinenkelit ovat myös valkoisia. Minun pitää varmaan neuvoa kaikkia ei-eurooppalaisia hankkimaan pistoolin ja luotiliivin. Meidän kaikkien kannattaa. Valkoiset, värilliset, kantasuomalaiset ja maahanmuuttajat aseistautukaa hampaisiin asti koska ihmiset ovat brutaali eläinlaji.

    Tuo oli ironiaa ja satiiria. Älkää ottako ihan tosiksaan.

    Erittäin Hyvä teksti.

  154. Timo

    Hazzan, mitä sinulla on sanottavaa tähän sasun kommenttiin, minun mielestäni sasu sen sanoi oikein, ja tää teksti on just sinun kaltaisille juroille. Hazzan sä tarvit vähän mailmalle kiertely jotta susta tulisi vähän avarakatseisempi, ei koko mailma ole Suomen kaltaiselle takapajula.

  155. Hazzan

    kelpaako Ruotsi, Norja, Tanska, Viro, Latvia, Liettua, Puola, Saksa, Hollanti, Belgia, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Englanti, Wales, Italia, Espanja, Gibraltar, Ranska, Unkari, Tšekki, Slovakia, Slovenija, Itävalta, Sveitsi.

    Miltä sun euroopan valloitus näyttää?

    • Migrant Tales

      According to the Finnish guy all immigrants, visible immigrants should run and hide because of their racism. I doubt this will happen. Crime is nothing taken lightly by any group but those that use it to further their racist views is shameful.

      The first thing I’d do when looking at these suspect arguments that label whole groups is where do these people come from politically. You will usually find extremists, politicians in the far right, even some who have been fined for hate speech like Hirvisaari. The fascist? Try PS councilman for Espoo, Teemu Lahtinen. Wow, looks like I am coming up with just PS members. Does that mean that all of Timo Soini’s followers are a bunch of racists and far-right extremists?

  156. D4R

    Hazzan: kelpaako Ruotsi, Norja, Tanska, Viro, Latvia, Liettua, Puola, Saksa, Hollanti, Belgia, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Englanti, Wales, Italia, Espanja, Gibraltar, Ranska, Unkari, Tšekki, Slovakia, Slovenija, Itävalta, Sveitsi.

    Miltä sun euroopan valloitus näyttää?

    Miksi eurooppalaiset saavat asua ympäri mailmaa mutta muut eivät eurooppaa?

  157. Hazzan

    Timo

    koska kysymyksesi oli alentava ja itseään korostava, niin voisit ehkä samalla kertoa missä olet käynyt euroopan ulkopuolella, mitä kieliä puhut.

    • Migrant Tales

      Yksi tärkeä kysymys mitä puuttuu tässä keskustelussa on miksi mm. Hazzan, Teemu Lahtinen, James Hirvisaari ja muut hänen kaltaiset juuri nyt puhuvat tästä aiheesta. Katsokaa PS:n kannatus ja siinä piilee vastaus.

  158. Timo Kinnunen

    Hazzan: Timo

    koska kysymyksesi oli alentava ja itseään korostava, niin voisit ehkä samalla kertoa missä olet käynyt euroopan ulkopuolella, mitä kieliä puhut.

    Mitä sillä on väliä tähän mitä kieltä puhun tai missä olen käynyt? sinuna minä lopettaisin rasismina oleminen, se ei kyllä tuota sulle yhtään hyötyä, sen sijaan palat loppuun ja luolet katkerana. Värilliset Suomalaiset tulevat kasvamaan, mitä sinä teet kun tulet kohtaamaan heitä? lähdetkö kipittämään jalat alta?

  159. Hazzan

    Timo Kinnunen

    Monelle Tukholman satama on saavutus, tosin moni ei pääse niin sanotusti satamaan lainkaan.

    Jos mä kertoisin omat kokemukseni mustista ja vähemmin mustista kavereista ketkä olen kohdannut niin sulle tulisi paskat housuun. Plörinä käy viimesitään silloin kun paljastan kuinka montaa mustaa kaveria on kuulunut lähipiiriin vuosien aikana.

  160. Hazzan

    ”Mitä sillä on väliä tähän mitä kieltä puhun tai missä olen käynyt”

    Kyl se ehkä liittyy, sehän sun argumentti oli että matkustamalla sitä saa perspektiiviä. Onpahan mahtava argumentti, hyvin ohut sellainen.

    Listaa liikkeelle!!!

  161. D4R

    Hazzan, stop coming to this site man your not fit in, why don’t you go to Hommaforum klans site, there you hould fit in like a glove. it seems though as you disagree with us at most parts, that means you are against us and our values, that means you’re hardore racist scum, and this site is for to tackle your kinds, so stop wasting your time and ours,,,if you cant engage discussion with us in a proper manner then i suggest you just stay away.

  162. Hazzan

    Migrant Tales

    DON’T LIE.

    I have never voted for PS, I vote for labour party so they can use the full potential of usually low educated immigrants. However, I think they have failed since the overall unemployment among immigrants is more than 30%, three times more than for Finns. This should work as an anti-immigration measure. Why take in more immigrants when you can’t afford them nor employ them?

    According my definition ”Värilliset Suomalaiset tulevat kasvamaan, mitä sinä teet kun tulet kohtaamaan heitä? ” this is wrong. Since you want to distinguish between people you should use proper terms, black, white, coloured and posssibly more.

    To those (Timo) who believe it is a question for black and white I should say that you have been sleeping for ten years, may be more.

    Remember, always play black. At least when you need to do so. 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

  163. Hazzan

    Timo

    Since you do not answer the question I take for clear that you have never been outside of Finland. No worries, Finland is a beautiful country and many nice things to see.

    Furthemore I can say that I have done studies/student projects in 5 European countries, as well as worked in additional 5 EU countries in total may be 5 years.

  164. D4R

    Hazzan: According my definition ”Värilliset Suomalaiset tulevat kasvamaan, mitä sinä teet kun tulet kohtaamaan heitä? ” this is wrong. Since you want to distinguish between people you should use proper terms, black, white, coloured and posssibly more.

    Either you’re confused individual or you’re playing some seriouse ball game. Arent you the one whose putting this whole discussion “us vs foreigners. Colored people will grow in Finland it’s no doubt about it,, there’re many Finns who’re married to foreigners and im one of them, my son is half Finn so are you goig to accuse him of being a rapist or a criminal just cause he has tan on his skin and you don’t?

    • Migrant Tales

      What do you mean by always play black?

      Good question, D4R. What does he mean?

  165. D4R

    Hazzan: Furthemore I can say that I have done studies/student projects in 5 European countries, as well as worked in additional 5 EU countries in total may be 5 years.

    Well that was a waste of taxpayers money on you , because you sound like you’e the same socially awkward you were before you left.

  166. D4R

    Hazzan: Timo Kinnunen

    Monelle Tukholman satama on saavutus, tosin moni ei pääse niin sanotusti satamaan lainkaan.

    Jos mä kertoisin omat kokemukseni mustista ja vähemmin mustista kavereista ketkä olen kohdannut niin sulle tulisi paskat housuun. Plörinä käy viimesitään silloin kun paljastan kuinka montaa mustaa kaveria on kuulunut lähipiiriin vuosien aikana.

    Alä kuules valehtele, kun sinun kaltaisesi näkee mustan kaverin kadulla, olet niitä jolle tulee paskat housuihin, äiti varmaan pelotteli sinua ” musta mies tulee ikkunasta ja vie sinua” jos olit tuhma.

Leave a Reply