The immigration debate in Finland is far from “normal”

by , under All categories, Enrique

When debating discrimination of immigrants and refugees in Finland, one can scent two matters in the air: hostile suspicion mixed with a dose of patronizing.

The tragic events of the Sello Mall killings on the last day of December show how some of our political leaders view immigrants. As soon as a psychopath is on the lose and it happens to be an immigrant or former refugee, it is an opportunity to reinforce our stereotypes, fears and hostility toward others.

Whenever a Finn goes on the rampage and kills indiscriminately innocent bystanders  as we have tragically seen before, we don’t jump up and demand how people from a certain region of Finland should be placed under scrutiny.

Accusing immigrants and refugees of being freeloaders, lazy and a menace to our Finnish way of life is not only unfair but a cover used by some to hide the real challenges facing our society. It is tantamount to brushing our country’s real problems under the rug and using immigrants as scapegoats.

Immigration will, however, reveal many pleasant and unpleasant things about who we are.

Take for instance high unemployment. Immigrant critics and populist parties such as the True Finns argue that it is the immigrants’ fault because they are lazy and so challenged professionally that they cannot do even menial jobs.

High unemployment in Finland reveals a wider problem of labor markets that need a serious overhauling. How is it possible that after strong years of growth, Finland’s unemployment rate continued to be around 8%?

The suspicion that some Finns have of immigrants and refugees reveals another fact: Their fear of competition and laziness to deal with those   challenges that threaten our way of life and future living standards.

  1. Tiwaz

    -“Whenever a Finn goes on the rampage and kills indiscriminately innocent bystanders as we have tragically seen before, we don’t jump up and demand how people from a certain region of Finland should be placed under scrutiny.”

    Of course, at this point Enrique conveniently forgets that during such rampages, police activity has been scrutinized thoroughly and changes to laws to limit access to handguns are under progress.

    He also fails to notice that while we are not able to prevent Finns from being in Finland and causing crime, we CAN prevent immigrants from repeating their crimes.
    Through act of deportation which is far too little used tool we have every right to employ.

    Had Ibrahim and all immigrants who end up responsible for multiple crimes and/or single violent crime deported immediately to their country of origin we would not have had Sello tragedy.

    Ibrahim might have been strung up into nearest tree in Kosovo, but that is hardly our problem. By breaking laws he clearly gave signal that he did not want protection of society.

    -“Take for instance high unemployment. Immigrant critics and populist parties such as the True Finns argue that it is the immigrants’ fault because they are lazy and so challenged professionally that they cannot do even menial jobs.”

    BECAUSE THAT IS THE TRUTH! Immigrant who cannot speak Finnish is useless in society where Finnish is mandatory in person to person interaction. There is no room for “special” cases who are handicapped by their own decision not to learn.

    -“High unemployment in Finland reveals a wider problem of labor markets that need a serious overhauling. How is it possible that after strong years of growth, Finland’s unemployment rate continued to be around 8%?”

    On overhaul of labor system I agree, but you are lunatic if you think that immigrants suddenly would end up hired more unless they get off their lazy ass and accept that this is no longer Kansas, and they have to learn to be useful in FINNISH society instead of expecting their “special” handicap to be appeased by Finns.

    -“The suspicion that some Finns have of immigrants and refugees reveals another fact: Their fear of competition and laziness to deal with those challenges that threaten our way of life and future living standards.”

    Rather, it reveals attitude issue you have in this field Enrique. You fervently refuse to accept that immigrants are not hired because they cannot compete. Finns do not fear competition, but you foreigners do not grasp that you have no muscles to compete with!

    LEARN FINNISH! LEARN FINNISH CULTURE! There is no shortcut to Finnish worklife without those two steps.

    Only if you have some very rare and highly sought after skill can foreigner avoid need to speak, read, write and understand Finnish fluently.

    “No-speak”-immigrants are worthless waste of space and resources.

    You would help them much more Enrique, if you concentrated your admirable eagerness to fixing the issue of immigrant stupidity instead of saying how Finns are racist.

    We are not racist, we simply expect guy X to be able to do their job if hired. That means, being able to communicate with their colleagues and having all the necessary basic skills to build on.

    Immigrant whining is same as me whining why I am not in Finnish Olympic team as swimmer or skater or whatever.
    I do not have sufficient skills to perform that task on olympic level.

    Same way, most immigrants lack skills to perform at expected level in Finnish workplace.

    • Enrique

      –He also fails to notice that while we are not able to prevent Finns from being in Finland and causing crime, we CAN prevent immigrants from repeating their crimes.

      OK, Tiwaz, you are right. Will they deport immigrants if they get a parking ticket?

  2. Referee

    Please Enrique, do you HONESTLY think that Tiwaz, or any other sane person wants to deport foreigners because of a parking ticket? HONESTLY? Or are you just wasting time with that silly question?

  3. Tony Garcia

    Also, do you honestly think that Finns are blaming immigrants for ALL their problems? Wasn’t this headline a bit sensationalistic? Although I disagree with your multiculturalism idea, I have always seen your editorial line more like Guardian than Mirror. What is happening?

    • Enrique

      –Well, no one can say that Finnish women aren’t being “enriched” by multiculturalism.

      If cultures meeting each other and living is not an enriching process, what is it? Could you Tony show me a country where there is NO diversity and the people are all the same looking and hold the same values? Are we talking about some Orwellian type of country, perhaps? Or is it an ideal you hold that can never be attained?

      The problem with these types of stories is that they are on the dot when we talk about bringing a problem forth. However, if it is used to reinforce stereotypes, increase suspicion and hostility towards a group then definitely not. In the same way that this deplorable act should be condemned by society, we should do the same for ALL types of violence. Look at the violence that Finnish women suffer at home? What about Brazil? What about Argentina? What about the good old United States?

  4. Tony Garcia

    Solve the problem? Really? How? How can we do that if we are not supposed to impose our values to them? The violence is not the problem but the result. The problem is different values put together. Western gender equality against Islam women submission. And please, when YLE says “immigrants” we all know that we are talking about Muslins.

    Finnish women suffering violence? This is police case, period. However if we make honour violence also a police case aren’t we then imposing our values? And if we don’t, how is multiculturalism protecting?

    You see? That is the problem with multiculturalism, it’s based on contradictions. Your idea of not imposing values can lead to disaster.

    Brazil? Argentina? US? Spot on Enrique, excellent examples of what we don’t want for Finland, thanks.

    • Enrique

      –The violence is not the problem but the result. The problem is different values put together. Western gender equality against Islam women submission.

      The violence is the problem and applies to all sectors of society. Western gender equality? Really? So women are not discriminated nor are they beat in Finland. Take a look at the worrying crime statistics. What about the cultures where we grew up? You are taking one sorry factor and demonizing a whole group to fit your view of them. Is that what living in society is all about? Tony…

      –However if we make honour violence also a police case aren’t we then imposing our values?

      There are no contradictions when it comes to crimes and violence. You say multiculturalism is full of contradictions. True, but isn’t that the story of society?

  5. hannu

    Enrigue just doesnt understand “honor” violence, normal finnish way is that other beats up other. Honor is that community beats up one.

    • Enrique

      –Enrigue just doesnt understand “honor” violence, normal finnish way is that other beats up other. Honor is that community beats up one.

      To me it is all violence and criminal.

    • Enrique

      –But you dont understand difference.

      There are many ways to die but at the end of the day there is only one result: death.

  6. Tony Garcia

    Good spin mate, but the hard question still remains, what do we do?

    A. Tell the wives that this is their husband culture, therefore they should get use to it. (multiculturalism/not impose values)

    B. Tell the husbands that this part of their culture they must leave behind. (Assimilation/impose values)

    • Enrique

      –Tell the wives that this is their husband culture, therefore they should get use to it.

      Good spin? You know better than I that such a suggestion would be ludicrous. As you know, a good benchmark to follow is the UN Declaration of Human Rights and, naturally, the law.

      –B. Tell the husbands that this part of their culture they must leave behind. (Assimilation/impose values).

      Tony, if I came from a violent culture (gender induced, dictatorship etc) why wouldn’t I want to live in a country where I can be free from these things?

      I personally do not believe that there is culture A and B and they are totally different. Immigrant children and their parents learn to adapt immediately to the new culture and they create hybridity, which means using a bit of A and B and creating something new. The explanation that people come from such far places to live with us and their only desire ¡s to live the same way they did is a bit fishy. If you ask me, I think (and I am generalizing) they are the most ambitious, self-starters of their culture. Society loses a lot when we throw away such talent and the project fails.

    • Enrique

      –Enrigue you are blue eyed and dont have grasp what is really happening.

      Just because we disagree you state I know nothing. Come on, Hannu, it doesn’t work that way.

    • Enrique

      –And people wont suddenly change as liberal secular westerns when they cross border, quite opposite happens.

      It is pretty incredible that you talk about “liberal secularism” even though you would be the last person to support such ideas. Just because people are different doesn’t mean we throw away our values and take an autocratic stance on how they should conform to our society. Western society, in my opinion, has a great attribute: there are civil liberties, tolerance (this can be debated) and the acceptance of others who are not like you. Don’t you think we have lived long enough in Finland and elsewhere to begin this stupid game who is better and “you should conform and be like us?” The threat to our society is not difference BUT people who will use difference as an argument to erode civil liberties. Take a look at the United States during Bush.

      Finland is finally coming to grips and learning to realize its potential as a country through a more tolerant and accepting society. We still have a long way to go but it is a start.

  7. Tiwaz

    -“Finland is finally coming to grips and learning to realize its potential as a country through a more tolerant and accepting society. We still have a long way to go but it is a start.”

    If this is such boon, why countries far more down that road are miserable shitholes where most Finns wouldn’t want to live if paid?

    Why native Britons run in ever increasing numbers from their homeland devastated by idea of “multiculturalism” and why France is taking ever harder stance of “multiculturalism”?

    Why USA is constantly creaking as it’s society is fighting against itself with overblown gang violence and social divisions?

    Reality which you have to face is that divided societies FALL. They do not flourish on diversity, they DIE from it.

    SMALL amount of diversity is good. Just like pinch of pepper gives food nice flavor. But like pepper, if you try to force the issue to some kind of “equality of cultures”, you get food nobody would eat. And you get society which is by nature dysfunctional.

    -“Western society, in my opinion, has a great attribute: there are civil liberties, tolerance (this can be debated) and the acceptance of others who are not like you.”

    Problem is, other societies do not have this attribute. And neither do people coming from them. When they come to Western society, they do not embrace western freedoms but see them as moral decay as opposed to their “good” native land. And start trying to force their way upon Western society.
    And some idiots say that it is their right! And encourage them!

    -“If cultures meeting each other and living is not an enriching process, what is it? ”

    It is rot. History proves us. When cultures meet, if they are very different ones… There can be only one left at the end. Destroyed culture often leaves it’s mark, but it is wiped out nevertheless.

    As we see with China. They were once ruled by Mongols who had their own culture. Today you are hard pressed to find culture of forefathers of Kublai Khan from China. Cultures met, clashed and weaker one was turned into mention in historybooks.

    By artificially seeking to “even the odds” for foreign cultures entering our nation, we do not strengthen our society. We weaken it. By permitting these divisions instead of demanding adjustment, we are setting up ourselves for future conflict like ones in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Somalia and rest of mixed up hellholes.

  8. Tiwaz

    Furthermore, Enrique, I have to say that in my eyes, and eyes of most people I would guess, your vision that we Finns must appease foreigners is idiotic and perverse.

    This is best seen in your attitude towards cultures. You say everyone has by law right to live by their culture.

    True. But you fail to grasp and accept that NOTHING in the law requires ME to treat YOU according to YOUR culture.

    _I_ have right protected by law to live according to MY culture and practice it.

    That means, I am by no law bound to treat you like I would treat you according to your cultural norms. This is extended to employers.

    We Finns are not required to consider foreigners and their ways to be good if they are against our cultural norms. We do not give flying fuck if in your culture spitting on face is considered great compliment. Here it is grave insult and WILL be treated as one.

    You are free to be insulted if I do not spit you in the face, but so am I that you spit me on the face.

    Your attitude that we Finns must understand, tolerate and appease foreign cultures at expense of ours is failure.

    This is one reason why immigrants are so fucked up in job market, besides lack of professional skills. Employers want people who fit in, who are comfortable to be with. That means, company decides what kind of cultural norms are acceptable. Face spitter will never be hired, he has to accept that and adjust his behavior.

    Just like I would be in trouble trying to get a job in company where huge majority are spitters. I could not expect my “special” needs to be catered and appeased, I would have to adjust to job environment with plenty more wetness than I am accustomed or comfortable with.

    If I can’t handle it, I (like immigrants) should go look elsewhere.

    • Enrique

      –True. But you fail to grasp and accept that NOTHING in the law requires ME to treat YOU according to YOUR culture.

      True, Tiwaz, in your personal life you can treat people as you wish and be whom you wish. However, if you are a public servant or employer there are certain legal benchmarks you must abide to. If I have a problem with group X, I try to get along as best as I can for the benefit of the company/society.

      You continue to use the word “appeasement.” Wrong word. Try “one’s right and obligation.”

  9. Tiwaz

    -“However, if you are a public servant or employer there are certain legal benchmarks you must abide to.”

    We are not required to hire person who acts badly and would be detrimental to work community.

    Go and try to get a proper job by acting like asshole in an interview. You won’t get one.

    Employer is NOT required by law to ignore incompatible cultural traditions which would hurt work unit.

    -“If I have a problem with group X, I try to get along as best as I can for the benefit of the company/society. ”

    Minority adjusts to majority, which means it is task of IMMIGRANT to get along. It is NOT duty of majority to appease one asshole who cannot figure out he is no longer in Waziristan.

    And appeasement is the right word.

    • Enrique

      –Employer is NOT required by law to ignore incompatible cultural traditions which would hurt work unit.

      Have I ever said this?! NOT.

  10. Tony Garcia

    “Immigrant children and their parents learn to adapt immediately to the new culture and they create hybridity, which means using a bit of A and B and creating something new.”

    My friend, you have an interesting quality of imagining reality…

  11. Tiwaz

    -“Have I ever said this?! NOT.”

    You have strongly implied that. You constantly complain that it is FINNS who are to blame, it is FINNISH employers who are to blame.

    Never in these blogs have I seen from author comment which would tell immigrants to take a good look at themselves and ask what THEY have done to fit in.

    Never have I seen author state that immigrants have to accept that Finns cannot be everything to everyone, so immigrants have to adjust to Finnish reality.

    Immigrants have right to carry on with their own culture, it does NOT mean they are freed from consequences of their decision to not adjust to Finnish culture and way it conflicts with their own.

    That is what has to be hammered in, not message that “all cultures are sacred and should flourish in Finland”.

    Very few people in Finland, Finns that is, give a damn if you are red, brown, green or purple with pink polka dots. As long as you fit in, or give clear signs of TRYING to fit in… You are essentially accepted.

    But that means immigrants must work to understand Finnish culture and adapt to it.

    Fitting in first and foremost means that immigrant has to change first and most. They have to accept that everything which conflicts with Finnish culture must go. No exceptions. That way your behavior slips into accepted framework. Only once that is achieved, can there be any enrichment of Finnish culture because incompatible portions of foreign culture are stripped off.

    Once you have done this immigrant will notice that Finns are curious of foreign cultures and willing to try. But once again…

    FOREIGN CULTURE MUST NOT CONFLICT WITH EXISTING FINNISH CULTURAL PRINCIPLES AND PRACTICES.

    That is true for everything from spare time social interactions to applying for a job. Immigrant must accept that they have to fit into existing framework of society, not try to push their own foreign framework to others.

    Prime example of failure and success are Tony and his colleague.

    Faced with Finnish traditional male bonding ritual of Sauna, Sausage and Sauce…

    Tony bit his tongue, sucked up his latino macho culture and went through it.

    His colleague went Jihad with mere thought that Finns DARE to have their own preferred way of interacting.

    Which one do you think is bound to be accepted by Finns as friend and associate?

    Hell, most likely Tony could have stuck with some shreds of his modesty and take a towel with him to sauna and nobody would have given a damn. It is basic acceptance of Finnish cultural tradition which matters and not attempting to force foreign values on it.

    If his colleague had such huge issues with this, he could have just smiled and said he has to go. Nobody would really give a damn. But he had to go down the route of far too common immigrant and demand appeasement…

  12. hannu

    “The threat to our society is not difference BUT people who will use difference as an argument to erode civil liberties.”

    Like muslims and greenreds like you do?

    You dont get it. People wont change their mind about our core values when they move in here, some do but most dont. Were infidelfs.
    And you dont understand “honor” crime, you probably havent heard about “crime payable by blood”, thats THEIR CULTURE!

    When we dont accept it were terrible racists and facists and people like you say “There are many ways to die but at the end of the day there is only one result: death.”

    You dont understand anything.

    • Enrique

      –Like muslims and greenreds like you do?

      For your information, I do not belong to any political party.

      Hannu, you are just as pigheaded as a Jihadist. In the first place, I believe in Finland’s institutions and will use and defend them to ensure that our basic human rights are never compromised. If you think of it, hatred and suspicion of a group gives a WRONG picture of them. Your obvious loathing for a particular group is what society must do away with unless you want to confine people in present and future ghettos.

  13. hannu

    Basic human rights… Like they like it or are willing to make it reality. Thats what im against (check muslims declaration of human rights).
    And i dont have wrong picture, i have broad picture about how they hide behind “racism” to hide what they are doing and send their “too western” childrens in countries where they “fleed”. And telling that even if you dont have skills or education that you arent doctor because of evil finns.
    My loathing goes away when they start to acting as finns and take responsibility.
    and i dont send anyone to ghettos, they do that themself because finnish society is too scary to them to handle, think about it.

    • Enrique

      –Basic human rights… Like they like it or are willing to make it reality. Thats what im against (check muslims declaration of human rights).

      Don’t you think that one walks on thin ice when he/she attempts to demonize a whole group of people? If you were so much in favor of Nordic welfare values, why do you break the first rule: equality? You condemn a whole group by telling us how subhuman they are. If you lived in the United States in the 1960s, where would you have stood concerning Martin Luther Kings. Would you use the same reasoning and apply it to the blacks? Since we are are still living over the hangover of Bush’s administration, some are still fighting “terror.”

  14. hannu

    “Don’t you think that one walks on thin ice when he/she attempts to demonize a whole group of people?”

    Like they demonize finnish man, young male drivers, pregnant womans, smoking people, drinking people, north carelians etc?
    Shouldnt they too have equality and none telling them what to do?

  15. Ale

    Close the boarders before it is too late. Do not follow the wrong footsteps of my own country (Italy).

    Milan and Rome are now ruled by immigrants, who are not willing to integrate but just to destroy our Italian culture.

    Peace and love

  16. Osmo

    I live in Canada. The same thing has happened here: whole areas of the city of Vancouver have been taken over by Punjabis, Pakistanis, and Chinese. The Chinese tend to keep to themselves and learn Canadian ways and do not make waves. Middle East and South Asians practice reverse discrimination, meaning that they look at Canadians as White Trash and have no intention of integrating into the fabric of society. They don’t want to have Canadian buddies – they travel in their own groups and sometimes attack other minority kids, even killing them in some cases. Multiculturalism in Canada is a failure in the sense that the theory is “diversity is strength.” My wife has worked for the same company for about 15 years and has seen three owners. The present Punjabi owners constantly talk in front of her to the other Punjabis that “you don’t want to be like white trash, do you?” And comments like that, showing that they have no respect for anyone else but their own culture. Unfortunately that same type of mentality is with others from India to Morocco. Their culture is better, and it is their duty to try to change their host culture, to “civilize them” or to Islamize them etc. They are received graciously but they spit on the culture. They do not build their houses in the middle of white people, rather they spread out from the center out.

    Finland too has received many immigrants from the same countries. Ghetto mentality will set in as in Canada. Soon kids will not feel safe in schools where the majority is from say Somalia. Our kids had to move from their school because Punjabi kids were threatening them constantly, calling them white trash and worse. Finland better smarten up or the same thing will happen.

    • Enrique

      Hi Osmo and thank you for sharing your views with us. I wouln’t paint such a bleak picture of the accomplishments that multiculturalism as a social policy has attained in Canada. For one, without such a social policy, Canada would be probably two separate countries with poor ethnic relations. Certainly all types of racism is bad and should be corrected. Another problem with your analysis is that it generalizes groups and let’s us understand that nothing can change.
      Look at the matter this way: What would Canada be if only one group (English speaking) would dictate their culture on other groups? Would that make Canada stronger and unified? I think it would destroy Canada.
      By the way, could you tell us about your website http://www.uralica.com? It seems to be very anti-all-Muslim.

  17. xyz

    Canada is a country of immigrants. Even the whites are immigrants there if you look at the history of the country.

    I know plenty of people in Canada from the Middle East and none of them is criminal. They have all Canadian Degrees and are working there. But the problem is again that 1 person makes something wrong and the whole group get punished for it.

    • Enrique

      Hi xyz, you are absolutely right. It is a bit as if we are feverishly looking for these “bad apples” so we can justify how we see others. Is Vappu a bid deal in Ireland?

  18. xyz

    No nobody knows Vappu there (except those who are maybe interested in Finland). I am in Finland this weekend as well, celebrating Vappu with my girlfriend 🙂

  19. Osmo

    Anti Muslim? I would not say my site is anti-Muslim. My site contains a few pages to educate the ignorant about the Muslim religion. If that is anti-Muslim, then you can call it that if you want. Nowhere on my pages have I stated that we should hate Muslims. Point out an anti-Muslim statement and I will remove it. If you are telling people about a religion, how is that bad? Don’t we all need to know about every reigion on the planet, the good, the bad and the ugly? Why limit yourself to the propaganda about how “peaceful” a certain religion is, if the text in their books is full of violence. My “education” merely balances out the propaganda. Don’t you believe in seeing both sides of an argument or would you just like to see your point of view expounded by everyone? It sounds like you are like all the leaders of the world who made the statement after 9/11 “Islam is a peaceful religion.” It never has been and never will be because they are locked in by their religion. If they don’t war with infidels, then they war with each other. It is a violent religion through and through, and if you think otherwise, you have not studied it enough.

    • Enrique

      Osmo, to “educate the ignorant” about the Muslim religion. Who are the ignorant and why is it that you are the only one who holds the truth? Let me ask you the following question: If, as you claim, the Muslims are not a religion of peace (this is propaganda), who is spreading this? Are you saying that Christians are “peaceful?” If you point out 9/11 to me I can point to you Iraq and hundreds of thousands who died. Or do you believe that Saddam Hussein is linked to Al Qaeda?

  20. Osmo

    xyz – I am not punishing anyone from any religion. I am merely stating the truth about Islam i.e. that it is a violent religion. What people immediately jump to when hearing criticism about Islam is that you hate Muslims. Absolutely not. So you don’t have to worry, I will never hate a Muslim. But I want to point to the right road, and Islam is not the right road, I have studied it for almost 10 years and it is a cult that people have been locked into. They are afraid to leave because they are often killed if they do. Come on, drop your mentality that everyone who states the truth about Islam is some kind of nut or bigoted or whatever. That is not true. We love Muslims, but hate the religion for what it is: the most violent religion on the face of the earth.

  21. Osmo

    Enrique, most people are ignorant of Islam. That is not an assertion, it is a fact. You made the assertion that Islam is a religion of peace. Can you prove it? You claim that to say Islam is a violent religion is propaganda. Absolutely not. If you know Islam, you know that it is true. If, however, you know nothing about it, I can understand that you think it is propaganda. When Hitler wrote Mein Kampf, he made clear his motives. They were written in his book. Islam too, has made its goals and methods available to you to read. But you must read it to realize that what I am saying is not propaganda, but straight out of their book. We are discussing Islam right now, I will address other religions separately. Let’s decide whether Islam is peaceful or violent first, then we can discuss other religions. How much of the Qur’an have you read?

    • Enrique

      It is not my intention to dwell into the Koran or the Bible to answer your question, which I think is loaded. But let me ask you this question: What is your solution to the Muslims living in Canada if you state that they follow a “violent” religion?

  22. Osmo

    Many are leaving the religion as soon as they can, as they are able to slip away easier in Canada. They are aware of the problem with their religion. They know it is violent. The only ones that don’t are those listening to the leaders who keep saying over and over again how “peaceful” the religion is. These politicians know that people know nothing about the religion and they can say anything and people will believe it.

    Yes, my question IS loaded, because it can blow away all opposition to the statement: “Islam is a violent relgion.” Because once you have bothered to take a closer look, you will agree with me.

  23. Osmo

    Enrique – Sorry I was dwelling on the Koran, but that is where the evidence is. My statement is nothing without the evidence. You can Google search it yourself and you will find a wealth of information, making it unnecessary for you to read the crap written in the Koran. Try this:

  24. Hanna

    The top article is very shocking but true.
    I think Finland treats a lot of immigrants unfair.
    There are so many people, here in Finland, who would love to live here happily.
    Unfortunately they don’t have the life they worked for going to schools , getting diploma.
    My good friend who has graduated very good school in Oxford, she was engaged to aFinnish man for almost 2 years , living for 3,5- 4 years together.. While working on the relationship based residency somehow she was refused it and forced to leave the country.
    This is so unfair. She is pregnant and she was sent to South America.
    ;(
    Her fiance is going there all the times and they want to get married and do all paperwork trough there.
    But their opinion about Finland is really bad as of now.
    My opinion is perhaps not that important, but I feel deeply sad how our country runs away from the responsibilities and how foggy the truth about foreigners is. I live in Finland since childhood, I do have a bit different culture than Finnish Finns and I agree they are many restrictions and laws that make it practically impossible for foreign people here..
    My mom’s stories are really sad and because they touched her and my dad so much , I was raised to look at the immigration issue different way than the typical -widely known, protective Finnish way.

    By the way i wanted to thank you for such a nice place to share the info and thoughts. Fantastic blog and posts.

  25. Osmo

    It sounds like the system is upside down. Those that should be kept out are let in. Those that would be integrated into the country nicely, are kept out. That is why we see such a high rate of immigrant crime in Finland. It is “as if” they are trying to ruin the country. I could be wrong, but that’s how I read the immigrant situation based on crime statistics and total number of immigrants in the country.

  26. Tiwaz

    -“My good friend who has graduated very good school in Oxford, she was engaged to aFinnish man for almost 2 years , living for 3,5- 4 years together.. While working on the relationship based residency somehow she was refused it and forced to leave the country.
    This is so unfair. She is pregnant and she was sent to South America.”

    So your friend was unable to prove her relationship.
    Again, it is not failure of Finnish system but failure of your friend.

    If they cannot prove their relationship, specially since she apparently comes from South America, which is NOT very highly regarded in terms of quality of life, the it is their failure.

    What should be done? Let anyone in who claims to have “real and loving” relationship?

    Can you spell “fake relationships”? It is same as opening the doors for everyone.

    There is something definitely strange about your friends relationship if they have been living together for 2 years and have no means to prove it.

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