A disfavor to Finland’s future

by , under All categories, Enrique

With the April 2011 election approaching, parties in Finland are feverishly scrambling on ways to lure voters. One campaign issue that has the ability to move voters and inflame passions is immigration.

One important matter to keep in mind in the ongoing debate on immigration is to understand its parts: immigrants living in Finland, labor immigrants from the EU and elsewhere, and refugees (quota and asylum-seekers). When political parties and their representatives debate immigration, try to find out which of these groups they are talking about.

Which parties are using the immigrant-bashing card to lure votes? Of the one’s that have MPs in parliament, the True Finns are the main culprits. Their party’s position on immigration is pretty clear: xenophobic, ethnocentric and off the wall. Other parties like the Social Democrats aren’t too far off; in all parties you will find people who have anti-immigration stances.

Here are some points that should help you figure out the double-talk and baloney that some parties put out concerning the subject:

(1) We want to do away with multiculturalism (True Finns). Political parties use this term multiculturalism to mean a society with many cultures. When they state that they want to do away with multiculturalism, what do they mean? Kick out all the foreigners in Finland? Kick out the foreigners who are different from us? Close our borders and don’t allow immigrants to move to our country? Ask dark-skinned immigrants to dye their hair and get plastic surgery?

(2) The state should not finance multiculturalism in order to speed integration (Wille Rydman, Kokoomus). This is one of the best examples of double-talk I have seen by a Finnish politician. Rydman is suggesting that we should not allow immigrants to cherish their identity and background since he thinks that this will speed their integration into Finnish society. Rydman should look at studies on the subject that show the total opposite. He should visit Amerindian reservations in the United States that tragically show what consequences ripping a person’s culture and identity have.”

I could go on with a long list of other incredulous affirmations that will knock you on your back.

One important matter to keep in mind: Immigration is a political issue. Some groups, like the True Finns, may place ludicrous expectations of how immigrants are supposed to adapt to our society. The question, however, is if such expectations are realistic.

Having a successful immigration policy requires a long-term perspective so that immigrants may become productive and dynamic members of our society. Being only focused on the 2011 election is doing Finland a disfavor.

  1. Tony Garcia

    Amigo Enrique, another article pointing the finger at the Finns. I’m still waiting you show me a “two-way road” article.

  2. Tony Garcia

    Dear Finns, next election is no doubt the most important in our lifetime. It can be the difference between Finland staying as we know it or the first step towards a Islamic theocracy, a danger not for us, but if we let the door open a real danger for our children.

    Multiculturalists will call me a lunatic scaremonger, really? So let me you a question, if in few years time the majority of the Finnish population were Muslim what would prevent this to happen? Remember that they are only 3% of the UK population but already succeed in implement Sharia courts and bank system. Also a score of food outlets have already removed pork from the menu and are serving Halal only food. How far will they go when they 10%? how bout 20%? 40%? 60%?

    Scaremongering or demography?

    Enrique is quite right when saying that forced assimilation doesn’t work. We can look at the French example. They went down to this road and now they have a big mess that can’t be fixed. Once we already know that multiculturalism also doesn’t work, you may ask – with policy is the best them? I’ll tell you, the “no need any” policy.

    Finland has been blessed by the Lord, as the HS reported, even though it has the most lenient immigration policy in EU is has gone largely unnoticed. The vast majority of “diversity” in Finland is still on temporary permits, and the immigration law, as it is, allows reviews even to those already given refugee status. It’s not about law, it’s about political will to apply it.

    My friends one thing you must never forget is that Finland is a country with government not a government with a country. Politicians are your employees and are there to represent you, not to rule you. So make you voice heard loud and clear. You own this to your children.

    • Enrique

      –Multiculturalists will call me a lunatic scaremonger, really?

      What would your boss and colleagues call you after making such affirmations? I cannot believe that you are serious. You sound like somebody traumatized you and now you are getting back.

  3. Tony Garcia

    “What would your boss and colleagues call you after making such a statement?”

    Dear friend, as an experienced journalist you should know already that in Ireland, as in Finland, far more people share my vision about multiculturalism, mass immigration and “diversity” than yours. I guess this should answer your question.

    • Enrique

      –multiculturalism, mass immigration and “diversity”

      Tony, why do you think there is more immigration to Europe than before? With respect to cultural diversity, it is not a question whether you like it or not: it is guaranteed in the laws. And, could you tell me how you plan to do away with “diversity” in society? Please give us a sensible solution. By diversity I mean sexual minorities, political ideologies, religious groups, lifestyles and all.
      Please, amigo Tony, give us a definition of “monoculturalism.” Who belongs to the “monoculture” and which group enforces it.

  4. xyz

    Amigo Enrique, another article pointing the finger at the Finns. I’m still waiting you show me a “two-way road” article.
    -He points on parties not on all Finns. You seem to have a problem to separate groups and individuals.

    Even a blind person can see on the stuff you are writing here that you belong to a party.

    Since Finland is in the EU, Finland will see anyway more and more people from other EU countries. Same as other countries are seeing Finns.

    And believe it or not but those who come from other EU countries ARE also immigrants. There are plenty of Finns going to other EU/nono-EU countries. They are also called immigrants.

    • Enrique

      –Scaremongering? Very well, show to us then, based on facts not rhetoric, that if Finland reaches 40% Muslim population (I said IF, not that it will) it will continues to be a free liberal democracy.

      Explain to me mathematically how this is possible. Moreover, you are assuming that these people DON’T change and remain in a cultural time warp. What about if people in the British National Party (BNP) won 40% of the votes in England? What if other far-right parties did the same in other parts of Europe? What then? Dumb question? Look at yours. One of the arguments that groups like the BNP use is claiming that we will be run over by Muslims. If we were in the 1950s, they’d claim that blacks will overtake the white. Instead of being scared, why don’t you find paths to incorproation for all minorities in Europe and learn to live as a citizen in a diverse society. Why? Because there is no other way in our globalized society.
      Tony, you haven’t explained to me yet how you plan to make Europe monocultural never mind explain what monoculturalism means.

  5. Tony Garcia

    Scaremongering? Very well, show to us then, based on facts not rhetoric, that if Finland reaches 40% Muslim population (I said IF, not that it will) it will continues to be a free liberal democracy. They have already shown to us that they’ll bring all aspects of their culture with them – Sharia, forced married, underage marriage, honor killing, FGM, gender discrimination, hatred of Jews, etc…

    So I made my case, I showed what 3% Muslim is doing in the UK and speculated about what a higher percentage could do, now it’s your turn to make your case, show to us that a 40% Muslim Finland will not be an Islamic society.

    You have the microphone…

  6. xyz

    40% Muslim population..how long does this take if Finland has currently only 3% immigrants (and how many of them are not Muslims?)

    My father is Muslim and he is getting contracts for a company which employs 40.000 people. Each of this contract is worth a few million euros and they create jobs. You see, Muslims can also do good stuff. Again you are not able to separate individuals from a group.

  7. Klay_Immigrant

    A question that I don’t know the answer to.

    Why does Finland have the lowest percentage of immigrants compared to the rest of the EU or even countries who are not in the EU but in Europe such as Norway, Switzerland and Iceland?

    It can’t be the location, language, economy or immigration policy as I can think of countries with similiar barriers or deterents to immigrants but they still all have much higher foreign population.

  8. Tony Garcia

    The growing Muslim is results of 2 factors.

    a. Immigration – Somalis are coming to Finland by thousands, each one is bringing 15 to 20 family members.

    b. Birth rate – Finns 10.37 births/1.000 population, Somalis 43.33 births/1.000 population.

    Obviously any of those factors can change, that’s I said IF not WHEN, but before that happened majority Muslim population is a real possibility.

    Culture change…Yes you are right, it does, and it did, the Muslim culture has already changed. Young Muslims are rejecting the traditional moderate Sufi Islam that their parents brought to the west and embracing the radical Wahhabism. Walk around London, usually Muslims in their 50’s are wearing suit and tie, those wearing Arabic cloths are in the middle 20’s.

    Just look at those who are rioting in UK/France/Sweden, look at who is pushing for Sharia in Canada and UK, the 7/7 bombers, shoe bomber, Glasgow bomber, Christmas bomber, they are all the young not the old.

    Let me ask you a question with age you thing people who wrote those comments have?

    “We won’t stop the protests until the world obeys Islamic law.”

    “Freedom go to hell”

    “Behead the infidels”

    “Who cares? We hate Canada.”

    Islam has already changed my friend, unfortunately for worse.

  9. Tony Garcia

    “could you tell me how you plan to do away with “diversity” in society? ”

    Simple, by enforcing our immigration laws.

    “By diversity I mean…”

    sexual minorities – They are not trying to blow us to pieces, so no problem here for me.

    political ideologies – same above.

    religious groups – for same groups, same above.

    lifestyles and all – same above.

    But by “diversity” I mean, welfare bums, foreigners criminals and Islam.

    • Enrique

      Tony, here is a good eaxample of how terms are used differently. The term diversity, as I understand it, is usually used to speak of different cultures not for marginal people or criminals. Islam does not belong under the latter and former.

  10. JusticeDemon

    Interesting reasoning, Tony. Now tell us why Finland is not awash with Laestadians who have, after all, been raising much larger families in Finland for more than a century already.

  11. Tony Garcia

    Very interesting indeed…

    A movement brought by single man to the frozen an isolated lands of northern Finland and keep there for most of the time, 150 years or about 5 generations later has a population of apparently 100.000 in Finland alone, basically only by outreaching and breeding. Outreaching in a time without means of fast communication, and very importantly, a group that was never appeased by the multicultural lobby. Anyway 100K against all the odds? it makes one wonder…

    Now lets speculate… What could we expect then from another group with also has a high birth rate, maybe higher, but on top of that has thousands of members crossing our borders every year, each one of them bringing 15 to 20 family members. A group with kills members who decide to leave. A group blessed buy the multicultural left, funded with Saudi money and motivated by Iran teaching them hate.

    One can only speculate what can happen…

  12. Tony Garcia

    More facts that makes the demography of each group different.

    Laestadians don’t declare fatwa upon those who leave their group. Fathers don’t kill their daughters when they refuse forced marriage. Parents don’t send their children abroad to be de-westernized. They don’t kill journalists, film-makers or others who raze criticism about them, creating a atmosphere of fear and terror, not only to those from outside, but particularly to those from inside.

    Under this circumstance majority of Laestadians offspring can, if they wish so, safely renounce their family religious inheritance and adopt a more liberal lifestyle, making the flourishing of this movement much more difficult.

    Unfortunately Muslims children live in a different world. Some Kurd children got a lesson about it at Linnanmaki.

  13. JusticeDemon

    Well, you are talking about Laestadians after five generations. How do fifth generation Moslem immigrants compare? Start with the Finnish Tatar community.

  14. Tony Garcia

    I’m not a Tatar specialist but as fair as I know, Finland is not receiving thousands of Tatars every year coming from places like Pakistan, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan or Iran. Also they don’t accept non-Tatar Muslims into their community, what shield them off from Wahhabism, to their credit I must add. Furthermore they decided to adapt to the Finnish way of life, respecting its rules, laws and customs. Unfortunately they are a minority within a minority.

    For me it always about take chances and when it comes to my children I don’t take any. I don’t care if 10 Muslims, 10 Jews and 10 Christians living in the remote mountains of Himalaya spend their entire day holding hands and singing “we are the world… we are the children…”

    Muslims, as a group, and at the moment, have shown what they are here for. They won’t rest until we become an Islamic theocracy. They are not hiding this in secrets documents or private meetings but shouting at the top of their voice in the middle of our streets. They are not joking and I take this very seriously.

    For that reason I call all the Finns reading this to start grassroots activism now. We have a chance to prevent what has happened to UK, France, Sweden and others, to happen to Finland. But we may not have another one, so do not waist it…

  15. xyz

    You mean all those people who come to Finland want to convert all Finns to Muslims and establish Sharia. Hmmm…let me guess why would they want to leave their home country to establish a similar country somewhere else?

  16. JusticeDemon

    Some Finns in the 1940s felt that Finland should carve a border from the White Sea to Ladoga by force of arms. If this is the way that Finns think, Tony, shouldn’t Moscow bomb Katajanokka right now?

    Some Finns nowadays get blind drunk and kill each other with knives. Shouldn’t all Finns be locked up for the sake of our children? Let’s not take any chances now…

    You answered the point about how fifth generation Moslem immigrants behave. Now you need to explain why you are so certain that the great great grandchildren of contemporary Moslem immigrants will behave otherwise.

  17. Tony Garcia

    Binge drinking is a serious problem in Finland. Amigo Enrique you know well that from where we come from drinking habits are very different than in Finland. In average we drink more quantity of alcohol in a week than a the Finns, for us is normal go for a business lunch and order a beer, you know that. But we don’t consume a grate quantity of alcohol in a short period of time as the Finns do. That being said finding my son passed out on the street on a Friday night would, no doubt, break my heart. However find him blow into pieces by a suicide bomber when traveling on a bus will be the end of my life, that’s for sure.

  18. JusticeDemon

    Tony, the point was how are you going to make sure that your son isn’t killed by a drunk with a knife? Shouldn’t we lock up all the Finns just to be on the safe side? If you don’t campaign for this, can we conclude that you don’t care about your son’s safety?

  19. Tony Garcia

    The fact Finland is, arguably, one of safes place to live, but yet isn’t a perfect place doesn’t mean we should bring its extremely high standards down by accepting an alien menace.

    Life is full of dangers…

    Some belongs to our way of life and culture, we should accept it as a fact and, as a society, try to find ways to minimize its effects.

    Some doesn’t belong to our way of life and culture, likewise we should recognize this fact and fight to keep it outside of our borders.

  20. JusticeDemon

    So you consider the likelihood that your son will be killed by a drunken Finn with a knife to be an acceptable risk, but you are worried about the risk posed to him by suicide bombers in Finland?

    To my knowledge, there has only been one suicide bombing incident in Finland, and the perpetrator was a Finnish man.

    Given the high homicide rate in Finland, do you think other countries should allow Finns to enter their territory without individual security clearance and an armed escort? Isn’t this an unnecessary risk to children in places like Las Palmas during the winter holiday?

    As you said, life is full of dangers. The steps that we take to guard against those dangers should be guided by a rational identification and assessment of risk, not by prejudice directed randomly against entire population groups on the basis of tabloid headlines.

  21. Tony Garcia

    This ping pong has been fun but unfortunately I had enough of it, so this is my last reply…

    “The steps that we take to guard against those dangers should be guided by a rational identification and assessment of risk, not by prejudice directed randomly against entire population groups on the basis of tabloid headlines.”

    We’ll have to let the Finns decide that…

    It all boils down to one thing and one thing only… It doesn’t matter what you think, and to be honest neither what I think. What really matters is the result of next election. If Finns vote right, and I’m doing my part, working my ass off for that, the tide will change, and there is nothing you or anyone from the multicultural left will be able to do about it.

    Just a bit of facts…

    The Local has publish an article about families that have been deported from Germany back to Kosovo. They gained asylum in 1993 and most have children born in Germany. So 17 years living legally in Germany and German children wasn’t enough to prevent their deportation.

    Another report is about UK and Sweden already deporting Iraqis back the their home.

    So as you can see it’s not about change laws but enforce then, and before you come with the usual “International Law” and “yomman rites” mambo jambo let’s see two more cases.

    First – Italy’s Constitutional Court has issued a ruling asserting the supremacy of Italian law and custom over the orders of the ECHR. Greece and Poland have already warned that it’ll be no removal of crucifixes, now it’s just a matter of other countries follow the same patch.

    Second – Italian navy has already started to intercept and send back boats full of war “children”.

    We heard the usual left-wing wining, but bottom line is, Crucifix will stay exactly where they are and the boats were sent back to Africa, and that is that.

    For now, it’s only work hard for the next election and wait the result.

    • Enrique

      –We’ll have to let the Finns decide that…

      I think they will and you will be the loser. Italy, God behold Greece, and Poland are not good examples of how to handle immigration policy. Of all the EU countries Greece is the pits.

      I will tell this to you as well: there are many minorities in Europe and they are here to stay. Accept that fact because there is nothing you can do about it. I am certain that if a party like the True Finns got in government, we’d start to see changes in the law to minorities’ civil rights.

      In the United States there are people who are getting ready for a “race war.”

  22. Klay_Immigrant

    I have been watching recently the European athletics championships in which a Somali born athlete representing Great Britain won the 10k and 5k events. In his celebration what did he do? Wave a somaliland flag instead of a British flag. Even the so-called sucessful refugees will never view themselves as a citizen of their host country no matter what that host country has done for them. Thanks a lot Mo Farah for proving my point.

  23. Tony Garcia

    Sorry Enrique, but me who?

    Someone who is supporting a wise immigration policy? Possibly, I never deny the challenges we face. There’s a lot work to do and we may end up losing the chance to send a clear message to Helsinki.

    Or someone an immigrant? Also possible, never deny this possibility either, however between Finnish nationalists and Islamists? I’ll take my chances with the first.

    You are absolutely right, I don’t know about Poland, but yes, we should look very carefully what mass immigration has done to Italy and Greece.

    “Minorities here to stay”

    Most: Definitely
    Some: Possibly
    A Few: It remains to be seen.

    • Enrique

      –Someone who is supporting a wise immigration policy?

      Do you call a “wise” immigration policy one that divides, maintains in contempt and inflates nationalism and xenophobia? I would call it reckless. “Mass” immigration? I know the other ones: “uncontrolled.” What does “mass” mean? How many? By your definition the United States should have imploded. Buenos Aires had in 1914 49% foreigners. Why are they still standing on their feet? Because they look at pathways to inclusion. I think, Tony, that last thing I said is super important. You cannot exclude, insult and slap groups in the face and expect them to love you. Mutual respect and mutual acceptance is the first critical step.

  24. Tony Garcia

    Sorry Kay for the late response.

    This is indeed an interesting question; HS reported that although Finnish immigration policy is the most lenient in EU it has been basically unnoticed. This puts Finland in a unique position, it can prevent the damage mass immigration and multiculturalism has done to other countries.

    “Thanks a lot Mo Farah for proving my point.”

    Dead on mate, in a multicultural world we are everything, but end up being nothing.

  25. Klay_Immigrant

    Refugees and asylum seekers have a relationship with their host country similar with a step son/daughter and step dad/mother. I’ll use this analogy.

    The step child received everything from their step parent because their birth parent abandoned or wasn’t fit to take care of them. But even when that birth parent is nowhere to be seen the child still calls him/her their parent instead of the step parent who took care of them. Instead the child has nothing but contempt for their step parent. Is that right? Well that’s what refugees and asylum seekers are doing to their host countries.

  26. JusticeDemon

    Klay_Immigrant: August 20, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    The Norman Tebbit cricket test was quite deservedly ridiculed in Britain 20 years ago. Should Finland exclude footballers like Shefki Kuqi and Roman and Alexei Eremenko from its national team simply because they are immigrants?

    It’s not yet possible to represent Somaliland in international competitive athletics. Should the UK bench its best middle-distance runner on the grounds that it requires a particular form of jingoistic conduct in addition to sporting prowess? That would hold Mo Farah to a very different standard than was required of Zola Budd at the 1984 Summer Olympics.

    Consistency was never the strong suit of Daily Mail readers.

  27. Klay_Immigrant

    So JusticeDemon are you seriously telling me that if Mo Farah could represent Somaliland in international competition he would do so and denounce his British nationality and thus the lottery funding used to pay for his training and medical bills? He wouldn’t do that and you know that.

    All I’m staying when I gave his case as an example is if you represent a country and win a medal for that country the least you can do is wave that country’s flag in celebration. But then if I said Mo Farah isn’t really a true Brit even after his actions I would be called a racist. No true Brit would be waving a Somaliland or any other flag for that matter while representing Britain if they were a true Brit themselves. In the award ceremony the British anthem is played not the Somaliland anthem for a reason.

  28. JusticeDemon

    What I’m seriously telling you is that such displays are not important. You can put this one on a par with Daley Thompson’s behaviour at the 1984 Olympics or Tommie Smith and John Carlos at the 1968 Olympics. Most of the current England football team have chosen not to sing the UK national anthem in recent years. So what?

    The Somaliland flag incident does not even deserve a serious comparison with these previous instances of athletic free expression anyway. It only outrages the already prejudiced viewer.

    If waving only a particular national flag is some kind of duty, then it should be put in a contract or enacted in legislation. In this case we would not necessarily be able to tell what the athlete really thinks, but a certain appearance would be maintained. Until then, athletes enjoy freedom of expression.

    Perhaps Mo Farah and others like him would behave differently if they were not made to feel unwelcome by the likes of you, and I wonder whether he would have achieved as much if Alan Watkinson had harboured similar prejudices.

    But how do you behave in personal transactions with members of visible immigrant minorities? If you want someone of immigrant origin to do something for you, do you begin by saying “you will never view yourself as as a citizen of your host country no matter what that host country has done for you”? Would you say this to someone interviewing you for a job, or for promotion?

  29. Tony Garcia

    So we are told that refuges in general and Muslims in particularly are a force that your nation can’t afford to waste. Well, it’s important to notice that this notion basically comes from the left with is well known by its intellectual confusion and oxymoronic line of thinking.

    The comment section of this blog is a priceless opportunity to see how the left spin facts, clouds discussion constant branding those who, in their twisted view, don’t share their divine perception of reality.

    But lets look at the real world for a change. No one can deny that Sweden has had a very liberal approach when comes to asylum seekers. They have honestly believed in the multicultural dogma that “diversity” is strength and opened its door to it. They have also followed the multicultural bible by the letter and vigorously used censorship, ups… sorry… anti “hate-speech” laws to keep news about riots, crime rates, financial cost, Sweden declared the rape capital of EU, refuges sending the dole to terrorist organizations, refugees going back the Somalia to join the fight alongside terrorist, and others, from create any critical environment to their new adopted religion.

    So they fully and completely replaced Christianity by multiculturalism as the official state religion.

    However something just caught my attention some time ago. Last year Swedish government has asked other EU countries to help to share the burden of refuges.

    Quite interesting, a country with has enjoyed, and greatly benefited, as so we are told, by the positive force that refuges in general and Muslims in particularly bring to the country has used the term “share the burden” rather than “share the asset”.

    It makes one wonder…

    • Enrique

      –So we are told that refuges in general and Muslims in particularly are a force that your nation can’t afford to waste.

      As long, Tony, you speak of a group as ALL your comment will be suspect and borderline or crossover into racism. If you state you got a masters in whatever you studied, at least you should have learned the danger of overgeneralizing. All these people who you claim to be “experts” in the field have the same message: this group is so different from us that they can never be compatible with our culture. That sums up pretty much their whole message, like yours.

  30. Tony Garcia

    And for those who wonder about the symbiotic relation between yomman rites and Islam let me quote Mark Steyn…

    “A terrorist wakes up in Baghdad early Monday morning, straps on the old explosives,
    and toddles off to blow up some infidels at the gate to the Green Zone, dreaming of getting
    at least a couple of the virgins in before lunch. But the belt jams and U.S. troops arrest him
    and he’s stuck on a plane to Gitmo and forty-eight hours later he’s whining to his D.C.
    lawyer about the quality of the chicken chasseur and plotting his Supreme Court case. When
    they want to, Islamists can assimilate at impressive speed. So we have fire-breathing imams
    milking Euro-welfare and litigious lobby groups with high-rent legal teams. Neither of these
    are features of Arab life. Rather, they illustrate how adept Islam is at picking and choosing
    what aspects of Westernization are useful to it.”

  31. JusticeDemon

    Tony Garcia: August 21, 2010 at 11:10 am

    So you think detainees at Guantanamo Bay detention camp had access to legal counsel within 48 hours? Either you are incredibly ignorant or you are deliberately lying.

    Which is it?

  32. Tony Garcia

    Enrique please, don’t spoil the conversation, don’t start playing the race card. You know well that for me it’s not about race but culture/religion. One good friend I had in Nokia was a black-american, him and his family have had dinner in my house a score of times. You should hear his opinion about multiculturalism, particularly about quotas.

    And to be honest it’s not about refugees either. I’ve witnessed the success of refuges myself. As you know, during the second war we received thousands of Germans, Italians and Japanese. Today most of them are in the middle-upper class. I went to school with many second generations of Japanese myself. No problems reported.

    The problem today is not that we’re receiving people fleeing the war but who those people are, what they believe in and with religion they practice. Sorry but you can argue about the humanitarian cause of receiving those refugees but you can’t deny the damage they are causing.

    If today, God forbid, North-Korea decide to invade the south I’d have no problem whatsoever in Finland accepting South-Koreans. I’m sure they’d do grate in Finland, but from Africa, Middle-East and Asia? I’m sorry to say but they are, as the Swedish government said, a burden.

    • Enrique

      –Enrique please, don’t spoil the conversation, don’t start playing the race card.

      Am I? If you claim that ALL people from a certain continent or of a religion are basically evil, what do you call that? Is that being “critical” or is it outright offensive? Maybe nobody told you in Brazil or where you live at present that speaking that way is rude and racist. Do you want me to lower myself to political correctness and permit you to insult a whole religion or a group of people from a continent, every single person, and say nothing? In Europe people are too nice and they tolerate too much when it comes to those who insult other groups. Racism is a huge problem in Europe and all you have to do is look at World War 2. Maybe you might shrug it off as nothing but that shows me that you have not read your history, or have forgotten it for your convenience.
      Are you serious? Are you pulling our leg and making a mockery of us with your comments?

  33. xyz

    An interesting short video report on Finland’s immigration dilemma.
    -Hmm ring of burning ghettos. I have never seen any burning ghetto in Germany even so they have 10% immigrants in the area where I used to live. And why does he assume that immigrants want to live in buring gettos?

  34. xyz

    If today, God forbid, North-Korea decide to invade the south I’d have no problem whatsoever in Finland accepting South-Koreans. I’m sure they’d do grate in Finland, but from Africa, Middle-East and Asia? I’m sorry to say but they are, as the Swedish government said, a burden.
    -Maybe they are a burden because people like you have a specific attitude towards them and that’s why they don’t get an opportunity to work? I work with Asians and Africans in my current company and I don’t feel that they are a burden. (By the way North-Koreans are Asians too) 🙂

  35. Klay_Immigrant

    Well xyz if you are a refugee or an asylum seeker you will have no other option due to finances but to live in the poorest areas and as the numbers increase those same areas become ghettos. Happened in the UK, France, Sweden and any other country with a large immigrant population.

    • Enrique

      Guys! How many refugees are there in Europe? You are not suggesting that all of the ghettos are inhabited by refugees? Or is it that the “good white Europeans” live in goog neighborhoods and the rest (mostly refugees) live in ghettos? You sure have a dualistic and simplistic way of looking at the world.

  36. xyz

    I just read somewhere that 90% of the muslim population in Sweden is unemployed. What do you think is their reason to be frustrated? How about giving them a civil labour job if they can’t find anything else? Would also help them to integrate into the society and they would have something to do.

  37. xyz

    Well xyz if you are a refugee or an asylum seeker you will have no other option due to finances but to live in the poorest areas
    -But you would also agree that people who are NOT refugees and asylum seekers are also immigrans because there are some people who don’t know what the definition of “immigrant” is.

  38. xyz

    I have a friend from Iraq who also came as a refugee. He has now a pretty good job in Finland (the hiring manager was Chinese and he worked for this company already before in China and Arab Emirates). Just to point out that there are also refugees and asylum seekers who have skills.

  39. Klay_Immigrant

    Wow Enrique are you actually acknowledging that ghettos exist? Before you didn’t. In ghettos refugees, asylum seekers, and ethnic minorities are statistically enormously over represented and the indigenous people are under represented. That doesn’t mean that all the minority groups live in ghettos and the native people don’t but there is a large possibility that will be the case. The same applies to prisons.

  40. xyz

    Why do you wonder that they are statistically overpresented? As a native you may have the advantage that you can live in your parents house. Somebody from a minority group does not necessarily have this comfort. Also you may face prejudice because you are different which makes job hunting more difficult even so you have skills. If you don’t earn money you will most likely look for the cheapest option to have a roof over your head.

  41. Klay_Immigrant

    Ever heard of positive discrimination xyz? It’s when minorities are favoured for jobs even tho they have lower skills and qualifications compared to the native counterparts who are vying for the same jobs.

  42. Klay_Immigrant

    If that’s your attitude I can see why you didn’t succeed in Finland. Always excuses. It’s never the minorities fault if they can’t get a job, or commit crime, or do badly at school or don’t integrate. Remember I’m a minority too and I coped well because I didn’t have this victim mentality that most minorities unfortunately do.

    • Enrique

      –If that’s your attitude I can see why you didn’t succeed in Finland. Always excuses.

      You are full of nice and neat catch phrases. I love this one: “It’s never the minorities fault.” Please give us more catch phrases and don’t forget to spinkle a lot of stereotypes while you are at it.

  43. xyz

    I didn’t say that all immigrants behave well. I just want to make clear that not every immigrant is a criminal, does not have skills or is not able to learn something new. That’s the only reason why I participate here since there are many who generalize that an immigrant is this and that. I also don’t support people who don’t want to work.

  44. Klay_Immigrant

    Enrique never once have you ever put responsibility on the minorities for their short comings. Not once. It’s always the host country’s fault. As Tony pointed out before, even when people or governments who are for immigration talk about the subject, words such as ‘burden’ or ‘tolerence’ are used. Surely that’s contradicting one self. If something was great such words would not be needed. A person wouldn’t tolerate being rich would they? Or having a loving family is a burden?

    • Enrique

      Here are some new catch phrases that you use: “never place responsibility on minorities”, “It is always the host country’s fault;” you belittle and make a mockery of words like “tolerance” (by the way, a very important matter like acceptance). Please continue to “enrich” us as you would sarcastically put it.

  45. Tony Garcia

    Well Enrique, let me address yours 3 points.

    – Offence:

    Truth, many times is offensive, however it’s still the truth.

    – Europe’s tolerance to criticism:

    With Europe are you talking about? If it’s this one, you are then talking about criticism towards white Christians, not minorities. With the Politically Correct Gestapo policing your media, a journalist can say whatever he wants to white Christians, and if he’s hard enough he may win a journalism prise for “exposing the reality”, however if he says a word about certain groups/religion he’ll find himself learning how to drive a bus in no time.

    – Mockery of us:

    Us who? I only take the piss of terrorists and leftists, and I’m pretty sure you aren’t either. And, as you know well, mockery is deeply embedded in our culture. You guys are all for cultural relativism only when it comes to appease Islam. If a fire-breading Imam calling Jews pigs and Christians monkeys is cultural enrichment, why a Latino taking the piss of him isn’t?

  46. Tony Garcia

    Catch phases? Very well then, show us an article with you raise any criticism towards immigrants. I already challenged you 3 times in the last week and end up with nothing.

  47. JusticeDemon

    Here’s a criticism:

    Some immigrants tend to overgeneralise when they describe all Finns as racist homicidal drunkards without seeking merely to illustrate that it is a crass overgeneralisation to describe all immigrants from Moslem backgrounds as Islamist fanatics.

  48. Osmo

    Unless a Muslim stands up for the Finnish way of life and condemns terrorism and other violence that is in the Qur’an, he can’t be a good Finn.

    Peaceful Muslims are made irrelevant when they become stronger, and the violent ones take over. Look what happened in Germany, the peaceful majority was made irrelevant when the violent Nazis took over. In the same way, Islam has made gradual gains in the world. The peaceful ones have nothing to say in the endgame, when their lack of action spells the downfall of their host country to Islam. And, I understand that nobody believes that Muslims could become a majority in Finland. Talk to a biologist (like myself) or a mathematician and they will tell you, by the birth statistics, what year there will be a Muslim majority. The majority can be only in one province/area at at time at first. Impossible? Think again, this time with an open mind. We love the Muslim people, but we love them over there even better.

    Terveiset kunnon Suomalaiselta.

    • Enrique

      –Unless a Muslim stands up for the Finnish way of life and condemns terrorism and other violence that is in the Qur’an, he can’t be a good Finn.

      It must be difficult being Osmo seeing terrorists here, there and everywhere. If we lived in the 1960s you would be complaining about the blacks. I sincerely believe that many Finns are embarrased by racism and Islamophobia. It is so easy to impose on other groups things that you would never ever imagine imposing on yourself. At least you included some people as Finns.

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