Finland has been challenged by an anti-EU, anti-immigration and anti-Islam party

by , under All categories, Enrique

If I were the head of Finland’s secret police, Supo, I would have sent a long time ago my best agents to investigate whether there is a connection and well-orchestrated plan by far-right groups in Europe and Suomen Sisu to the Perussuomalaiset’s (PS) election victory in April.

If  Supo decided to leave many stones unturned on this front or keep such information to itself, I would as head of a large Finnish daily send my best investigative reporters to find the tensions and links between Timo Soini’s SMP wing of PS and the MPs that belong to the Suomen Sisu association.

Here are some of the matters I’d ask my reporters to investigate: (1) Is there a greater-than-known link between Suomen Sisu/PS and other right-wing populist parties in Europe like the Danish People’s Party (DPP)? What level of consultancy work have the DPP given to Suomen Sisu/PS to spread more effectively the Islamophobic message in Finland? (2) Is one of the attack strategies of such a sinister plan overwhelming the net with Islamophobist websites like Hommaforum, which have close links to Suomen Sisu?

Apart from Migrant Tales, groups like Hommaforum have inhibited researchers, common Finns and bloggers to speak out against their xenophobic and nationalist message. Our blog was attacked by over 800 Hommaforum supporters in September 2008.

As head of Supo or of a major daily, I would look at the reaction of the politicians and society towards rising xenophobia in Finland. Did politicians cave in to the Islamophobia and reacted too late and with too little firepower? Or did the message of people like PS MP Jussi Halla-aho appeal and serve the interests of some like Kokoomus and the Social Democratic Party?

The biggest loser of the election was the Center Party. That party under the leadership of former Prime Minister Mari Kiviniemi lost the most votes due to her pro-EU and outspoken stance against the PS.

Sometimes you need to cash in defeat in order to become stronger in the future. President Barak Obama is a good example by being one of the few senators that opposed the US invasion of Iraq in 2003. Thanks to his leadership, he was able to reap lots of advantages against his Republican rival John McCain in the 2008 presidential election.

Nothing happens by chance never mind getting 19.1% of the votes from 4.05% four years earlier. Certainly outside factors like the global financial meltdown of September 2008 and the EU bailouts of Greece, Ireland and Portugal played crucial roles that benefited the PS. Even so, living in denial and playing down such a threat and lack of leadership by political parties probaby played an even bigger role in boosting the PS.

Despite the good fortunes of the Soini’s party, there is one lesson that can be learned: If you don’t stand up to right-wing populism it will end up challenging your power base. Why? Because it is a message of hatred that divides our societies and impoverishes us in the end economically and socially.

That is why we need today more than ever leadership concerning the menace that has challenged our society with its anti-EU, anti-immigration and anti-Islam message.

  1. Allan

    I think the Supo was investigating your connections to far-left parties and the well-orchestrated plan of replacing the European societies with multiculturalism, but their plans were foiled by your tinfoil hat.

  2. Allan

    “That is why we need today more than ever leadership concerning the menace that has challenged our society…”

    And we have found him: The Saw of God – Hakkarainen! 😆

  3. Seppo

    Well Suomen Sisu / the anti-immigrant fraction made a deal with Soini: in stead of having their own party they wiould work inside Perussuomalaiset. This gives them both more seats and political power. It is also a way for the racists to hide under the umbrella of the party which cannot be considered racist as a whole.

    The Homma guys were succesful in the April elections. I guess this is how democracy works. I’m just disappointed that so many people in Finland really think that way..

  4. Hamid Alsammarraee

    I have asked some Finnish friends who had voted for the Perussuomalaiset about the cause that made them choose this party and some of them said that they have presented more beneficial economical plans than the other parties, (this man has lost his job because of the competion of the Chines goods, and he has quite good relationship with foreigners). What I am saying here is that I dont believe that alla the people that have elected the Perussuomalaiset were actually moving by Anti immigrants influence.
    As I am totally against theire anti immigrant policy

  5. Hannu

    So Hamid, may you do us favour and point out what exactly you are against in their immigration policy.

    And enrique, you just dont understand how internet works and your homoetnophobia hinders your thinking.

    • Enrique

      Hannu, if you asked me that question you would know the answer. One thing that some people do is play down a problem when they live in denial. Some PS who write do just that. You have been one person on this blog that has denied that racism is a big issue in Finland. That is easy for you to say because you are white and Finnish. Check out Helsinki Times, for example, they translated it to the n-word. I believe there is a general consensus that the word “neekeri” is the n-word in English.

      Since some Finns are always telling immigrants what they think they should do and how they should assimilate into Finnish culture, I think it would be fair for these people to at least ask what a group wants to be called. That way you would avoid offending other people. Fair enough? What do you think is the issue when an MP like Teuvo Hakkarainen has no idea and crosses lines by offending other groups and Finns?

      Right, Hanny, I don’t “understand” as you point out. Please explain what is “homoetnophobia.” I guess you use these terms as part of a way to play down a social ill called racism, right?

    • Enrique

      Hannu, I don’t think Hannu is speaking specifically of immigration policy but the general negative atmosphere in Finland against immigrants and refugees. But then again you may think that this is only a storm in a tea cup.

      At least Green MP Jani Toivola doesn’t think so: “Heittäisin nyt pallon perussuomalaisten eduskuntaryhmälle. Sen yllä on koko ajan leijunut muukalaisvastaisuuden pilvi. Nyt olisi selkeästi aika tuomita sellainen, jos he ovat sitä mieltä, että se on tuomittavaa.”

      What do you think the PS will do? Brush it under the carpet or show some leadership in this area. By leadership I mean promoting social equality and respect for all groups living in Finland.

  6. Allan

    “Check out Helsinki Times, for example, they translated it to the n-word. I believe there is a general consensus that the word “neekeri” is the n-word in English. ”

    I think it is a general consensus, that foreigners who can not understand the Finnish language are the last ones to ask any sort of advice for people who are native speakers.

    Really, you call everyone a “negro” in Spanish. Cry racism.

  7. JusticeDemon

    Allan

    How about debating this point with a foreigner who can understand the Finnish language?

    How would you translate Saatanan neekeri!, as yelled by a gang of thugs chasing a black man with malicious intent? Remember that you need an English expression that would match the corresponding situation.

  8. Topi Junkkari

    Dear Enrique, what do you mean by writing “Our blog was attacked by over 800 Hommaforum supporters in September 2008”???

    Hommaforum did not exist in September 2008, it was launched in December that year.

    What kind of “attack” did your blog suffer in September 2008? How do you know that the “attackers” were Hommaforum supporters?

    I guess you consider it an “attack” if a large number of your political opponents becomes interested in your writings and reads your blog. 800 website hits are a far cry from any “attack” (such as denial-of-service).

    • Enrique

      Hi Topi Junkkari and welcome to Migrant Tales.

      Even though Hommaforum wasn’t an official site it had its large following where they would meet and launch attacks. Certainly a person who is not used to getting 800 hits in a day might get scared. I saw it as a compliment that finally our message was getting through.

      If you want to ask the person who sounded the charge, you could turn to Hannu Varjo who visits our blog ever now and then.

      Since I answered your question, could you please answer mine: What is http://www.iki.fi and are you remotely connected with Suomen Sisu?

  9. Mark

    Ah, the racist Finns trying to hide their racism behind a ‘you don’t know our language’ argument.

    Actually, I know plenty of Finns who say that the acceptance of “neekeri” is old racism that has just never been challenged so that it’s ‘normal’ and in that sense, no offensive because some Finns don’t even know that racism is offensive. That is how behind some people are in Finland on this issue.

    I remember one of my Finnish friends being absolutely mortified when her mother used the word in a conversation with me once. She apologised afterwards and said that most people in Finland nowadays don’t use that word because they know it’s not right. She didn’t mention the die-hard dickheads who want to convince the rest of Finland that actually it’s okay after all. And these same dickheads are the one’s saying there isn’t any racism in Finland….do I see a connection here or what!?

    Something to make you smile! (not sure if you have image tags enabled Enrique, but lets try)

  10. Topi Junkkari

    Hi Enrique, and thanks for your answer.

    I am an active contributor to Hommaforum but not an administrator, moderator or even a member of the registered association Homma ry. I have never heard that there was a “large following” that would “launch attacks” against other people even before any Hommaforum existed. Present-day Hommaforum activists certainly do not launch any attacks against anybody. If someone suggested an attack, be it physical or Internet-based, against our political opponents, he would most probably be kicked out of Hommaforum permanently, or at least be banned for several weeks.

    http://www.iki.fi has nothing to do with Hommaforum, Suomen Sisu or any political organisation. Please read the English summary on their front page. IKI is an association that provides its members with semi-permanent email and Web addresses. As long as the association exists and as long as I remain a member, I can change my Internet service provider and still use my IKI address. In other words, IKI is an email and Web forwarding service administered by a non-profit association. Nothing, absolutely nothing to do with politics. The geeks at HUT who established the association back in the nineties are very non-political characters as far as I know.

    As to my personal “remote connection with Suomen Sisu”, I happen to know a bunch of prominent Suomen Sisu members, including MP Halla-aho, and I have attended some social events arranged jointly by Suomen Sisu and Hommaforum, but that’s all.

  11. Topi Junkkari

    And to make it clear: My political affiliation is the National Coalition (Kokoomus) and has been so for twenty years. My most recent position of trust was secretary of a local Kokoomus chapter about five years ago. One can be an active contributor to Hommaforum without being a political extremist of any kind.

  12. Allan

    “How about debating this point with a foreigner who can understand the Finnish language?”

    Why sure, JD, please find me one as I know you can not.

  13. JusticeDemon

    Allan

    I’ve found one, and I shall relay the answers.

    Now answer the question that you are trying to dodge:

    How would you translate Saatanan neekeri!, as yelled by a gang of thugs chasing a black man with malicious intent? Remember that you need an English expression that would match the corresponding situation.

  14. Allan

    Are the natives not educated enough to your liking, o’ Mike of the colonial office? Ever thought why do they then use “negro” in Spanish? Maybe you want to be called “musta” in Estonia too? The only dickhead is the one trying to impose some Anglo-American concepts as if they were somehow superior. Like the person having a rant about the use of “sambo” on thelocal.se bulletin board.

  15. JusticeDemon

    Allan

    Afraid to answer the question? That’s not like you. It’s only two words used in a particular context.

  16. JusticeDemon

    Allan

    Negro is just the Spanish word for black. The pre-eminence of Finns in that language is eminently illustrated by their use of the masculine plural definite article as the name of a city in the USA.

    I wonder if you were around when that Finnish company considered marketing a product called Rape in the UK, or that German/Austrian company had an idea for launching this in Finland?

  17. Allan

    Yes, JD, and exactly at what point were we suggesting to use the word “neekeri” in English?

    For your translation: “Damn Caucasian”. Exactly the same connotation as an archaic racial descriptor and exactly as “offensive” or not, of course depending where you come from.

  18. JusticeDemon

    That’s good, Allan.

    So a gang of racist thugs chasing a black man with malicious intent might be yelling damn Caucasian!

    Seriously? Or in a comedy sketch.

    This puts me in mind of the old joke about the vicar who complained to the council about the foul language used on a construction site next door to the church. After thoroughly investigating the incident, the public works engineer explains that Murphy dropped a hod of bricks from the third floor, narrowly missing O’Brien working two floor below, whereupon O’Brien looked up and shouted I say, Murphy old chap – do be more careful up there!

    If damn Caucasian is the best you can come up with as a translation of Saatanen neekeri, then I should strongly advise you not to give up your day job.

  19. Allan

    “So a gang of racist thugs chasing a black man with malicious intent might be yelling damn Caucasian!

    Seriously?”

    Well in Russia they would. Very serious there.

  20. Allan

    “Even though Hommaforum wasn’t an official site it had its large following where they would meet and launch attacks.”

    Mmmm.. Enrique, I am afraid this “meeting and launching attacks” really makes you look like you need extra tinfoil, you sound as if you are clueless of “how internet works”. Maybe you should ask about this from the kids you go lecture in the school, they should be able to show you how to get a site “attention”. Of course these days we have facebook and twitter and all that.

    Back in 2008 besides the dying IRC channels, the most viral site was “muroBBS”, which is a computer geek site. It has/had a cult following and really its “Yleista Keskustelua” was hundreds of times more popular than any other site. Basically, a link “look at this” would get a few thousand hits in half an hour easily. passed around in IRC it would spread abroad like wildfire and hit HardForums, KChan and *then* we talk about attention. So really, 800 hits *only* – how pathetic was your site before that?

    This kind of viral attention you can imagine people in the net as either sharks in the sea or vultures in a desert. One sees you, and all of a sudden you are in the middle of a feeding frenzy, and as suddenly most of them disappear. But some might remember a good feeding site. “Stupid people are fun to tease” say the trolls, and unlike your momma told, them trolls are real. When they get involved in a feeding frenzy, heeee…

    BTW was that “September 2008” attention due to which post?

    • Enrique

      Alan there you go again with your usual style… Back in those days over 800 hits was a lot but today that’s about normal on a good day. I know if i has a website that was anti-immigration and anti-Islam I would have mich more. But we’re not that kind of a blog.

  21. JusticeDemon

    Allan

    For a moment there I thought you were simply making a fool of yourself, but now I realise that you have simply been away from Finland too long to know about developments in the Finnish language since the 1980s. This will help get you up to speed.

    Please feel free to give us the benefit of your guidance if you are aware of any reputable authority on the Finnish language that disputes the views of Kotimaisten kielten tutkimuskeskuksen Kielitoimisto in this matter.

  22. JusticeDemon

    Ricky

    I don’t think you are using the term hits in the usual sense here. Your blog entry on 28 August 2008 attracted 121 comments that came largely from the culturally insecure, cryptofascist cyberwarriors that we love so much here. Based on this level of interest I would surmise that the site must have taken several thousand hits on that day and immediately thereafter. The various bots that periodically sweep the web will add a few hits every day, and the moment you attract the interest of the Stormfront fraternity you can be sure that the secret police will be reading you regularly as well.

    What matters more are statistics on things like unique visitors and page views.

    If the Column88 crowd start spending a lot of time here, then you can always make a few bucks by selling advertising space to Guns&Ammo and similar publications.

  23. Allan

    I think these cyberwarriors are culturally secure, the culturally insecure ones are the ones always going “oh what do they think of us abroad” and “Finland is so lame” and wanting “color on the streets” and so forth.

  24. Mark

    Allan

    – “I think these cyberwarriors are culturally secure, the culturally insecure ones are the ones always going “oh what do they think of us abroad” and “Finland is so lame” and wanting “color on the streets” and so forth.”

    So what you mean is that a cyberwarrior who is culturally secure is someone who 1) doesn’t care about Finland’s reputation with the world, 2) never criticizes what goes on inside Finland 3) does not want to see any kind of racial mixing on the streets.

    Sounds more like being culturally straitjacketed to me! (oh, and a racist, but we knew that about you already, Allan!)

  25. Allan

    Why should they care what some random foreigners think? The foreigners know nothing about Finland to start with. And who says they do not criticise things in Finland, but then again it is not your place to tell the natives what to criticise from under your pith helmet either. And you really are a racist if racial mixing on the street is of any value to you. Does it show in the dark? Are blind people excluded? They are not races on the street, they are people.

    • Enrique

      –And who says they do not criticise things in Finland, but then again it is not your place to tell the natives what to criticise from under your pith helmet either.

      Allan, do you think this is a fair statement and does it help? It shows more of a high-and-dry view of different people who live here. You should be happy that people want to form part of society and contribute to it through debate. Or do you want apathetic people to just sit home and say “yes sir” every time you speak down to them?

  26. Allan

    “I realise that you have simply been away from Finland too long to know about developments in the Finnish language since the 1980s.”

    😆 I realised that about five years ago I overheard some young exchange students or aupairs in a pub.

  27. Allan

    I do not think the natives like some foreigner – who does not know anything and can not follow the news and has no grasp of the culture – coming to “give” them advice.

    If they want to hear an opinion they will ask for it.

    You might need to wait for a while.

    • Enrique

      –If they want to hear an opinion they will ask for it.

      Do I need to? I think it is sad what you are saying. Not that it will stop anyone from not expressing himself but it appears you are in such denial about Finland’s “other.”

  28. Allan

    “Or do you want apathetic people to just sit home and say “yes sir” every time you speak down to them?”

    That is what you do, and get all upset when you are put back in your place.

  29. Mark

    Allan

    – “Why should they care what some random foreigners think?”

    I guess they care as much as if some random Finn were to spout off. It’s no big deal to me that some people would find what I to say interesting and others not. And I certainly don’t think being a Finn gives you automatic passport to having the ears of all other Finns.

    – “The foreigners know nothing about Finland to start with.”

    And Allan shows his cultural naivety once again! Surprise, surprise! Not true, Allan. Foreigners know how Finns differ to them, which is something would find hard to know. In that sense, foreigners might know Finns from a level of objectivity that Finns might struggle for, simply because what is normal and accepted often tends to be overlooked. It’s that cultural blindness that anthropologists are encouraged to become aware of as a way towards better objectivety as observers of their own culture.

    Allan, in case you missed it, I was caricaturising your views, simply because they were asinine that they barely registered as actual thoughts.

    – “it is not your place to tell the natives what to criticise from under your pith helmet either.”

    Pith helmet!? Nice. You have been studying your colonial vocabulary. I don’t consider I have to be in some ‘plac’e before I can give an opinion about ‘society’. Your words and ideas sound like ancient Victorian manners. Maybe you’ve been in England too long!

    – “And you really are a racist if racial mixing on the street is of any value to you. Does it show in the dark? Are blind people excluded? They are not races on the street, they are people.”

    Ah, that myth again. Seeing races does not make you a racist. And you cannot have it both ways Allan. You see races/ethnicity when you want to slag them off, but when someone pulls you up about it, you cry ‘racist’.

    I’ve said this before, we need to be aware of something as long as blindness to the suffering that people are subject to because of it. Once people stop being racist, then yes, race becomes less important. But even then, there is nothing wrong in recognising racial or ethnic differences. But you, Allan, you little Hitler, have nothing good to say about immigrants. Or do you want to prove me wrong? Go ahead, tell me actually like immigrants? I’d love to be proved wrong. I’d even apologise. 🙂

    for wanting to keep your race poor, you call them a racist. An adult that would fall for such schoolboy logic is probably just a little defective in the intellect department.

  30. Allan

    Well nobody pays attention to you as your opinions are about as welcome and full of content as a wet fart in church.

  31. Tiwaz

    And here we have JD once again spread his form of racism.

    Saatanan neekeri, freely translated could be along lines “fucking nigger”. Indeed.
    However, saying saatanan suomalainen, suomalainen meaning Finn, would translate to “Fucking Finn”.

    Both are easily identifiable as insults, but mainly due to the first word which associates negative meaning to second.

    While personally I disagree with use of word neekeri, JD here is once more trying to present his speciality of idiot arguments for those who have no understanding of Finnish to try to spread anti-Finnish attitude and racism.

  32. Tiwaz

    So here we once more see how racists JD and Enrique are prepared to try to spread lies or half truths to support their positiong.

  33. Mark

    Tiwaz

    – “Saatanan neekeri, freely translated could be along lines “fucking nigger”.”

    I see, so that removing ‘fucking’ leaves a nice ‘nigger’ instead. How the fuck does that compare to ‘fucking Finn’ which leaves over simply ‘Finn’? So, now you are saying that Finn and nigger are equally unoffensive?

    Tiwaz, you are a noisy, brainless, twit! And coming on here shouting ‘racist’, liar and not saying anything even half intelligent won’t help your love life! Get a life!

  34. Tiwaz

    You forget that we are talking about Finnish language.

    Nigger is offensive term in English, as it carries association to slavery.
    Finnish has no same association you imbecile!

    Not to mention you that JD specifically used “Saatanan neekeri” and asked if it is derogatory. I simply proved that his example is derogatory no matter what the latter word is.

    You should learn to know few basic things about languages before posting.

  35. Mark

    Tiwaz

    – “You forget that we are talking about Finnish language Dork. Nigger is offensive term in English, as it carries association to slavery. Finnish has no same association you imbecile! Not to mention you little idiot that JD specifically used “Saatanan neekeri” and asked if it is derogatory. I simply proved that his example is derogatory no matter what the latter word is. You should learn to know few basic things about languages before posting your idiotic drivel.

    Ah, what obnoxiousness you have brought with you to this debate Tiwaz.

    So, you won’t take my word for it, Tiwaz, cos I’m just a stupid foreigner that knows nothing about the Finnish language (oh by the way, I have a first class degree in linguistics, just for the record – but hey, don’t let that stop you).

    http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neekeri

    Written by Finns, I presume, and here you go, my Finnish isn’t perfect, but doesn’t this quote:

    “Nykyisin sana käsitetään usein halventavaksi.[3][1][4][5][6][7] ”

    mean that today the word is often understood as degrading?

    Yes, you proved that anything with ‘fucking’ in front of it can be derogatory, but more to the point, you didn’t prove that ‘neekeri’ on it’s own is unoffensive. More to the point, you have manifestly lost the argument and not only that, your hiding behind that feeble excuse that ‘Finnish is not your language so shut the fuck up’ has also completed failed.

    Face it, Tiwaz, you can scream all night that neekeri is not offensive, but the fact is that most Finns do not agree with you.

  36. Allan

    The fact is that you are offensive, and I will call you whatever I like until you stop telling me what words I can use in my own language.

  37. Mark

    Oh Allan. Don’t take offense now, I didn’t mean it. You can call me anything you like, if you want to, even Neekeri. Come on, sweetheart, let’s stop fighting now, and give me a cuddle! 🙂

  38. Niko

    Shouldn’t we just accept that language is developing and the meaning might also change? For example, “gay” meant “happy”, but nowadays it can be found as an offensive word. Same thing with N-word in Finnish language.

  39. Allan

    This whole neekeri discussion is totally gay.

    The police were told off a few years back for using racial descriptions, so now the dispatch talks about dim and opaque.

    Any euphemism will become “offensive” in time, and using politically correct language describing say shit as chocklate does not make people want to be told “eat chocklate”. If your biggest problem is the use of some word and you have nothing else to complain about, then really you need to get a hobby or something.

  40. Mark

    Allan

    – “This whole neekeri discussion is totally gay.”

    Not surprised to see you want to get involved in it then.

    – “Any euphemism will become “offensive” in time.”

    I think you are actually right, precisely because we have racist thugs like you around turning any word that is used into something derogatory.

    Come on Allan. What qualifications do you have. You haven’t answered this question from the last thread you buzzed constantly with your ignorance? And, what hands on experience do you have working with immigrants that makes you such an expert on the issue?

  41. Allan

    I have not had a hands-on experience, those three that relieved me of my phone and wallet that one summer night last century had one though, and I still have not gotten any answer on how this multicultural experience enriched me other than having an experience I would have expected somewhere else, and I have been to all kinds of places before that and since then, rather than in my own home town.

    • Enrique

      Allan, how old are you? If you have lived a half a century you may have noticed how this country has developed economically and socially thanks to foreign export markets. But let’s begin with food… Did you know that pizza was hardly known in Finland in the 1970s? Who brought pizza to Finnish tables? Do Fazer, Stockmann, Finnlayson, Rettig say anything to you? You speak of Finland as if it were a place where Adam and Eve were born and where the Finns all alone did everything on their own. Wrong. For better or worse, Finland was a part of Sweden for about 500 years and part of Russia for about 100 years. Globalization, immigration, foreign markets and other factors have transformed Finland. Over a million Finns emigrated from this country in the past 150 years. That also changed Finland as well.

      If you want to see a country that has little foreign influence, you should visit North Korea.

  42. Mark

    ALLAN

    – Allan said: “I have not had a hands-on experience’

    Exactly!

    Oh, hang on, there was more:

    – Allan said: ‘[except] those three that relieved me of my phone and wallet that one summer night last century [1990s?] had one though”

    I see. Well now the source of all that hatred becomes clear. You were mugged about ten years ago. The first and last time. And the most noticeable thing, apart from being not very nice peole, was that they were foreign? And now, you think all foreigners are basically muggers? Well, it’s easily done, labelling a whole group based on the experience of just one or two in that group.

    – I still have not gotten any answer on how this multicultural experience enriched me other than having an experience I would have expected somewhere else, and I have been to all kinds of places before that and since then, rather than in my own home town.”

    Well, if that is your only experience of multiculturalism, I can see that you don’t have anything else to go on and that would be your logical conclusion. Mugging can be terrifying. I’m genuinely sorry you got mugged.

    I don’t have the latest statistics, but from 2005, 51% of solved street robberies were perpetrated by native Finns. 12% were committed by Somalis. That’s higher than their proportion in the population, yes. And that is a problem, though it’s hard to say if it is by a small and organised gang or that hundreds of hundreds of Somalis are out on the streets daily committing robbery. It’s almost certainly the first.

    But can you use statistics to judge a whole nationality? Well, I draw your attention to the much higher statistic of Finns committing street robberies: it’s 51% of all solved robberies. Do you condemn Finnish people knowing that they committed 51% of street robberies?

    I mean, that is a lot of robberies, and in every one there was a victim like you. If the victims saw a Finnish face, would they be justified in thinking that all Finns are criminals and even worse, that Finnish culture had no value and Finns cannot exist side by side with civilised people?

    That’s the logic here, Allan.

    Maybe it’s time you broadened your understanding of ‘multiculturalism’.

  43. Allan

    Mark, the Finns are IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY! I would flatly condemn them if they would be committing street crime say now here in the UK. Actually I would go kick their ass and also kick any locals ass who would talk about multiculturalism and understanding their alcoholism and whatnot excuses.

    My qualifications? WTF has my engineering degrees got to do with this? I work in an offshore industry everyone is “immigrant”. And there is no space for multiculturalism, the rules are exactly as they are written.

    What are your qualifications? Some sort of social auntie degree teaching grownup people in which order to wipe their nose and arse?

  44. Mark

    Allan

    – “Mark, the Finns are IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY!”

    And what does that have to do with anything but the price of fish? So people are ‘allowed’ to commit crime in their own country and it doesn’t reflect badly on them at all as a nation. But foreigners are not allowed to commit crime if they live in a country that is not their ‘country of origin’? Since when did criminals pay attention to ethics, especially ones that demand differing behaviours based on ethnic origin? A criminal is a criminal.

    – ‘Actually I would go kick their ass and also kick any locals ass who would talk about multiculturalism and understanding their alcoholism and whatnot excuses.

    You’ve lost me there. Alcoholism?

    – “My qualifications? WTF has my engineering degrees got to do with this?”

    Quite a lot, really. They show whether you’ve had to analyse something, especially something that utilizes ‘social categories’, with any degree of sophistication.

    – “What are your qualifications? Some sort of social auntie degree teaching grownup people in which order to wipe their nose and arse?”

    Lovely. Wiping noses and arses. Sounds like fun. Nope, my degree (first class) was a joint honours in communication studies (linguistics) and biological sciences. A balanced mixture of practical and theoretical learning, I’d say. I also have a graduate qualification in the field of gender studies (social categories being rather relevant there). I also cofounded and ran a charity supporting refugees in London for three years.

    In other words, direct and hands-on experience of refugees: their lives, their experiences, their struggles, their triumphs, their hopes and dreams, their fears and uncertainty, their warmth and friendliness, their skills, their frustrations and their prejudices too.

    You sound like a smart guy Allan, so what went wrong when it came to understanding ethnicity? Maybe you should have had some counselling after you were mugged. That kind of terrifying experience can leave you scarred emotionally. And I’m not being flippant here.

    If that really is your experience of multiculturalism and you are not inclined to replace it with anything else by actually getting to know people in the communities that you so despise, then one might say that the injury you sustained that day was not just to your pocket, but to your overall sense of well-being. That you direct your subsequent suffering towards a whole group of people shows that maybe, just maybe you are trying to gain revenge, to overcome the sense of powerlessness you felt that day?

    But hey, maybe you were already hateful before that happened, for all I know.

  45. Allan

    Enrique, I know you like to invent history facts, but try invent me some *living* foreigners and their established companies that have benefitted Finland in the past… umm… 20 years? At least someone not died before the 2nd world war.

    Besides which, Karl Fazer wasn’t an immigrant, he was born here, his wfather was hired as a furrier. Finlayson saw an opportunity on a bible society trip and he got a government grant to establish his mill, which he sold off and moved back to Scotland. The Rettig’s were Swedish, granted, but then again Finland was also at the time they established the tobacco factory.

    So what exactly these people who came here for a job or establish industries in the Russian Empire exactly has to do with current immigration. Nobody has ever objected people moving for a specialist job or establishing industries. Even Stephen Elop just fired people.

  46. Allan

    I also have a graduate qualification in the field of gender studies

    No wonder you have so hairy palms, that must have involved a lot of self-study 😆

  47. Hannu

    OK… Enrique, you decided to give my name away so i will decide to spread your message around.
    Do you know what it means? I know your ideal isnt supported so it means debate!
    I wont threat you, i wont attack you, i just ask to anonymous to tell what they think about your blog. You think 800 hits is an attack 😀
    I keep my cool 24 hours, i wait for apologize and kissing my ass and then i will talk to internet.

    • Enrique

      –I wont threat you, i wont attack you, i just ask to anonymous to tell what they think about your blog. You think 800 hits is an attack.

      Well back then I’d normally receive much fewer visitors and then in a span of a few hours so many vistors — some leaving pretty hostile comments — can be seen as an attack.

  48. Allan

    So that means initially nobody was interested, and then the content inspired hostility? A bit like someone stepping on a soft stone.

  49. Tiwaz

    Often is not always Mark.

    And furthermore, you still do not grasp that JusticeDork used specific example which included word “saatanan” in it.

    Dimwitted folk might miss it, but the phrase itself is offensive regardless of what other words are used because of that.

  50. Mark

    Tiwaz

    – “Often is not always Mark.”

    I see, so you are happy to keep using a word that most black people find offensive because one person says they couldn’t care less, meaning they don’t let it affect them?

    – “dimwitted folk’

    Ah, you must be talking about me. Saatanan might make any phrase with a noun in it more offensive, but the question really is whether neekeri is acceptable or not and why saatanan neekeri is offensive. You are saying it is ONLY offensive because of saatanan and the evidence of dictionaries and encyclopedias as well as personal testimony of native Finns clearly contradicts you. Neekeri does not need saatanan in front of it to make it offensive.

    I mean, would you say the same about fucking motherfucker? I think we can all agree that take away the ‘fucking’ and ‘motherfucker’ is still offensive.

    But hey, you want to define the argument, you want to win, and you want to be able to keep saying nigger, then fine. Just don’t expect respect or acceptance from me or the majority of your fellow Finns, because you won’t be getting it.

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